Tell me about the 5.7 rd...please

[DmL5]

A muzzlebrake can be applied to any weapon if there is a percieved need.

No, a muzzle brake on a Barrett .50 BMG rifle is still not in any way similar to porting on a pistol barrel. They are two completely different things. The former is advantageous, and the latter is disadvantageous for any serious use.

For every law-inforcement in favor there is an ocean not in favor. Such as the FBI.

You already tried this argument several times. It's irrelevant, because the Five-seveN uses a specially-designed caliber and it's a relatively new design. It's also already in fairly widespread use. Most U.S. law enforcement agencies use pistols chambered in the 9mm cartridge, which gradually came into acceptance over its 110-year lifespan. But 10-20 years after the 9mm cartridge's creation, it was absolutely not in such widespread use.

The miniscule clip capacity between Glock 9mm (17 rnds) and FiveseveN USG (20 rnds) is irrelevant.

Pistols use magazines, not clips. Understand the difference. An M1 Garand rifle uses a clip. The difference in magazine capacity between those two pistols is much larger with a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine (which can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine).

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt280/NL226/557.jpg

A good look at those two cartridges on a table top (as opposed to a zoomed photo) only illustrates my point; they are both tiny pistol bullets. They do not wound on account of their "great size." Rather, they wound by striking vital areas, so they are completely dependent on shot placement.

Again, the Five-seveN has about double the flush-fit magazine capacity of most full-size .40 S&W or .45 ACP pistols. A small difference in diameter (from one tiny pistol bullet to another) cannot possibly outweigh such a dramatic difference in magazine capacity.

The 1911 in .45 is world renown, Kimber is a very good manufacturer.

Nice dodge. The LAPD is virtually alone in their choice of that specific sidearm, so by your own logic it is not a preferable choice of sidearm.

the fiveseven carrys +3 capacity over Glock

Already addressed above.

the Fiveseven is less powerful than a 9mm HP

Already addressed above.

the fiveseven can have a 30 rnd extension, the glock can have 33 rnd

An extended Five-seveN magazine only protrudes about 1 to 1.5 inches from the base of the grip. An extended Glock magazine is much, much longer, so it is absolutely not comparable.

the fiveseven has little to no barrier penetration and would likely not penetrate simple cover

This is 100% factually incorrect, based on any testing, or even the effects in the Fort Hood shooting (at least one victim was shot in the lower back through a car with 5.7x28mm V-MAX ammunition).

fiveseven is not available in 23 dimensions and calibers.

This was already addressed a couple posts back. The standard Five-seveN design works just fine. It makes for an arguably better overall weapon than any of those models or sizes, so the variety is unnecessary.

 

[DmL5]

I just don't get why people get caught up in whats main stream. Usually main steam issue weapons are FAR from the best options, they are usually easily and CHEAP produced and acquired. I can certainly tell you if Glock's price tag was higher they wouldn't nearly be as popular.

This.

 

[NateLeit]

There is not ONE gun that is going to be the best in every situation. That's the reason theres so many options, just be happy you as an American have those options.

This.

 

[NateLeit]

No, a muzzle brake on a Barrett .50 BMG rifle is still not in any way similar to porting on a pistol barrel. They are two completely different things. The former is advantageous, and the latter is disadvantageous for any serious use.

Very useful.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OKlb6h7hvWY/SCZs-MF1AOI/AAAAAAAAAnk/rEB03lH-LZ8/s400/003.JPG

Understand the difference. An M1 Garand rifle uses a clip. The difference in magazine capacity between those two pistols is much larger with a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine (which can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine).

Pistols use magazines, not clips. There is a difference here. The Glock 19 weighs .1 oz more than 5.7, not a benefit.

They do not wound on account of their "great size." Rather, they wound by striking vital areas, so they are completely dependent on shot placement.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt280/NL226/557.jpg

Nice dodge. The LAPD is virtually alone in their choice of that specific sidearm, so by your own logic it is not a preferable choice of sidearm.

"Mainstream is not the best."

An extended Five-seveN magazine only protrudes about 1 to 1.5 inches from the base of the grip. An extended Glock magazine is much, much longer, so it is absolutely not comparable.

Just as Fiveseven is offered in no different makes or sizes other than the 8.2 inch which is prohibitive to me.

This was already addressed a couple posts back. The standard Five-seveN design works just fine. It makes for an arguably better overall weapon than any of those models or sizes, so the variety is unnecessary.

Argued by your opinions, 65% of law-inforcement using Glock including FBI, the other 35% is not FiveseveN (Kimber, HK, Beretta.)

 

[NateLeit]

I think the FiveseveN has a real place for a shooter thats injured, bad hands, elderly.

Me too, my grandmother has one.

There is not ONE gun that is going to be the best in every situation.

That is the point that I have been making.

Bickering like school children about which is better a Glock or a FiveseveN is pretty much pointless.

There is not a best gun, each has it's own application and each individual will have his personal preference and opinion.

The 5.7 sadly will never be main stream.

No it won't. Not a bad gun though.

I carry a 1911.

Good choice.

 

[DmL5]

This.

A typical pistol caliber (9mm, etc) will not perform if the attacker is wearing body armor. The 5.7x28mm will perform regardless of whether the attacker is wearing body armor or not, so yes, for that reason alone it is arguably better all-around than mainstream calibers, even if it doesn't have the largest bore or produce the most severe wounds. The Five-seveN can perform well across the board, because it performs regardless of whether an attacker is wearing body armor or not. In fact, this same point was already made by StrongSideArmsInc back on page two:

"Haven a weapon that can perform good across the board, given the unknown dynamics of gunfighting is more important than knowning the gun can perform great in one specialized incident."

 

[NateLeit]

pistol caliber (9mm, etc) will not perform if the attacker is wearing body armor. The 5.7x28mm will perform regardless of whether the attacker is wearing body armor or not, so yes, for that reason alone it is arguably better all-around than mainstream calibers, even if it doesn't have the largest bore or produce the most severe wounds. The Five-seveN can perform well across the board, because it performs regardless of whether an attacker is wearing body armor or not. In fact, this same point was already made by StrongSideArmsInc back on page two:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1240.htm

 

[NateLeit]

I was never bringing out the benefits of Glock to make it seem like the end of all handguns - I was merely proving that there is no such gun.

 

[DmL5]

Very useful.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OKlb6h7hvWY/SCZs-MF1AOI/AAAAAAAAAnk/rEB03lH-LZ8/s400/003.JPG

You're recycling weak arguments again. Porting gives a slight reduction in recoil, and a number of different side effects that far outweigh the benefit.

Pistols use magazines, not clips.

That is correct, and I just pointed that out for you. An M1 Garand rifle uses a clip. Pistols use magazines. At this point, you're just trolling.

The Glock 19 weighs .1 oz more than 5.7, not a benefit.

More recycled misinformation. You're comparing the weight of the two pistols when they're empty. The weight of an empty pistol is irrelevant; pistols are not usable empty.

To recap (again), a Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol.

So a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs about the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is about half a pound (25%) lighter than the Glock 19; this is in spite of the fact that the Five-seveN also has 30% more ammunition in the magazine. On top of that, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it carries about twice as much ammunition.

"Mainstream is not the best."

For the last two pages you have been saying that if anything is mainstream must be the best. Make up your mind. The LAPD is virtually alone in their choice of that specific sidearm you mentioned, so by your own logic it is not a preferable choice of sidearm.

 

[DmL5]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1240.htm

THV armor-piercing ammunition is not an option, and Level II-A vests offer very little protection anyway.

 

[NateLeit]

You're recycling weak arguments again. Porting gives a slight reduction in recoil, and a number of different side effects that far outweigh the benefit.

Nice opinions, muzzle break can be fitted to any weapon and I have found them to be very nice, they're just great!

You're comparing the weight of the two pistols when they're empty. The weight of an empty pistol is irrelevant; pistols are not usable empty.

To recap (again), a Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol.

You compare fullsize pistols to compact pistols, two squirtgun weighted guns as if one weighs too much, and intentionally lopside information.
You also rant about 3 extra rounds clip capacity over 9mm which is slightly more powerful.
I'd like one in compact, semi compact, over 21 makes and models and calibers.

For the last two pages you have been saying that if anything is mainstream must be the best. Make up your mind. The LAPD is virtually alone in their choice of that specific sidearm you mentioned, so by your own logic it is not a preferable choice of sidearm.

No, we have been bringing out that Fiveseven is not ever going to be a any kind of over all replacement for conventional calibers inspight being useful in some applications.
If you like it, well, you are entitled to your opinion, not our cup of tea.

 

[DmL5]

Nice opinions, muzzle break can be fitted to any weapon and I have found them to be very nice, they're just great!

Sorry, but again, a muzzle brake on a Barrett .50 BMG rifle (like the one in the picture you showed) is not in any way similar to a ported pistol barrel. They are two completely different things. The former is advantageous, and the latter is disadvantageous for any serious use.

You compare fullsize pistols to compact pistols

A Five-seveN is substantially lighter than even a Glock compact pistol, yes. That was already demonstrated. The difference in weight increases when you compare it to a full-size pistol, such as a Glock 21. A Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs 40% less than a loaded Glock 21. At the same time, the Five-seveN is also carrying nearly twice as much ammunition as either of those pistols.

You also rant about 3 extra rounds clip capacity over 9mm

Here you go again. Pistols use magazines, not clips. Understand the difference. An M1 Garand rifle uses a clip. The difference in magazine capacity between those two pistols is much larger with a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine (which can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine).

 

[NateLeit]

Sorry, but again, a muzzle brake on a Barrett .50 BMG rifle (like the one in the picture you showed) is not in any way similar to a ported pistol barrel. They are two completely different things. The former is advantageous, and the latter is disadvantageous for any serious use.

Here you go again. I love them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OKlb6h7hvWY/SCZs-MF1AOI/AAAAAAAAAnk/rEB03lH-LZ8/s400/003.JPG

A Five-seveN is substantially lighter than even a Glock compact pistol, yes. That was already demonstrated.

GLOCK 27
WEIGHT
19.75 oz

FIVESEVEN
WEIGHT
20.8 ounces

The difference in magazine capacity between those two pistols is much larger with a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine (which can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine).

I'll remember that if I ever want to stuff acouple magazine extensions in my pocket.
On a second thought, I think dimensions matter more to me.

GLOCK 19
LENGTH
174 mm / 6.85 in.

FIVESEVEN
LENGTH
8.2 in


FiveseveN: not a bad gun for some applications - you're opinions simply don't prove superiority over other conventional guns. (no best gun, depends on application)

 

[NateLeit]

There is not ONE gun that is going to be the best in every situation. That's the reason theres so many options

YES YES YES

 

[NateLeit]

If you think that FiveSeveN is the best for every application over something like Glock, Sig or HK well you're free to have this opinion.

However that doesn't make it true.

 

[DmL5]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OKlb6h7hvWY/SCZs-MF1AOI/AAAAAAAAAnk/rEB03lH-LZ8/s400/003.JPG

Porting gives a slight reduction in recoil, and a number of different side effects that far outweigh the benefit.

GLOCK 27
WEIGHT
19.75 oz

FIVESEVEN
WEIGHT
20.8 ounces

More recycled misinformation. You're comparing the weight of the two pistols when they're empty. The weight of an empty pistol is irrelevant; pistols are not usable empty.

To recap (again), a Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol.

So a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs about the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is about half a pound (25%) lighter than the Glock 19; this is in spite of the fact that the Five-seveN also has 30% more ammunition in the magazine. On top of that, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it carries about twice as much ammunition.

GLOCK 19
LENGTH
174 mm / 6.85 in.

FIVESEVEN
LENGTH
8.2 in

You tried this argument back on page three. The Glock 19 is not designed to be a full-size pistol; neither is the Glock 26. The Glock 19 is listed as a compact and the Glock 26 is listed as a subcompact. The Glock 17 (Beretta 92, etc) is a full-size pistol more directly comparable to the Five-seveN; and a comparison between them shows the Five-seveN to be superior (to either) in all of the same aspects that were listed earlier. In fact, the Five-seveN is also shorter than a Beretta 92.

 

[NateLeit]

Porting gives a slight reduction in recoil, and a number of different side effects that far outweigh the benefit.

They're great, I love them. Makes a huge difference depending on the work done.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OKlb6h7hvWY/SCZs-MF1AOI/AAAAAAAAAnk/rEB03lH-LZ8/s400/003.JPG

The weight of an empty pistol is irrelevant; pistols are not usable empty

Comparing Glock and FiveseveN weight at all is irrelevant.

You tried this argument back on page three. The Glock 19 is not designed to be a full-size pistol; neither is the Glock 26. The Glock 19 is listed as a compact and the Glock 26 is listed as a subcompact.

You already tried this and failed.
I'll buy a FiveseveN when there is a compact or subcompact.

 

[NateLeit]

Your opinions about what matters are just that. I was merely stating that you are a great minority when compared to 65% LEO still being issued Glock including FBI, the other 35% is mostly not FiveseveN.

It's your opinions vs ours.

 

[NateLeit]

But there is no "best gun", this is why there is a 35% to the statistics (SIG, HK, BERETTA, FN, KIMBER.)

 

[DmL5]

Makes a huge difference depending on the work done.

Porting makes a "huge" difference, indeed. It dramatically increases muzzle blast and directs it straight upwards, potentially at the shooter.

Comparing Glock and FiveseveN weight at all is irrelevant.

Compare a loaded full-size pistol of your choice, and the loaded Five-seveN will be dramatically lighter.

I was merely stating that you are a great minority when compared to 65% still being issued Glock including FBI

Quote: "LAPD uses Kimber .45, they're not dummies"

The LAPD is virtually alone in their choice of that specific sidearm, so your logic is contradictory.