Taurus Judge
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Cheapshooter
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Let's just see size wise how my PD Poly compares with my colt 1991A1 Compact, and Springer XD40 subcompact.
As far as capability goes for my purposes as a truck gun tucked in a holster next to my seat. Loaded with the first two up Federal Premium Personal Defense Handgun 000 Buck followed by 3 Winchester 225gr. PDX1 rounds it would be a devastating surprise to a carjacker demanding I got out of my vehicle. The same cheapo ballistic cloth holster carries it comfortably in the woods while hunting Morrells, and picking berries. with 7 1/2 shot it produces a snake proof pattern density about 9 inches in diameter @ 10 or 15 feet.
Is it an ideal SD weapon? No.
Is it my choice for CCW carry? Again, no
Is it worthless for either of the uses I mentioned? Not by a long shot.
Is it a total blast (excuse the pun) to shoot things up with at the range? Absolutely yes!!!
As far as capability goes for my purposes as a truck gun tucked in a holster next to my seat. Loaded with the first two up Federal Premium Personal Defense Handgun 000 Buck followed by 3 Winchester 225gr. PDX1 rounds it would be a devastating surprise to a carjacker demanding I got out of my vehicle. The same cheapo ballistic cloth holster carries it comfortably in the woods while hunting Morrells, and picking berries. with 7 1/2 shot it produces a snake proof pattern density about 9 inches in diameter @ 10 or 15 feet.
Is it an ideal SD weapon? No.
Is it my choice for CCW carry? Again, no
Is it worthless for either of the uses I mentioned? Not by a long shot.
Is it a total blast (excuse the pun) to shoot things up with at the range? Absolutely yes!!!
Judge is an excellent hd weapon.
I bought a Judge with short barrel two years ago. I have set up many different home defense situations and tested this gun extensively with everything from number 8 bird shot, 7-1/2 shot, #6, #4, 000buck, the Winchester copper plates with bird shot, and the 45 lc. I use the quick "point and shoot" tactic because that is what you will probably be doing at around 10-15 feet in the event of a surprise intrusion. So lets look at the typical picture. 3 AM in the morning you awake and someone is entering your house. You reach for the Judge and your 3 cell flash light. You hear the foot steps getting closer and you start to shake (if you don't you are not normal). Shaking like a leaf on a windy day you turn the three cell on and there at 12 feet is an intruder you do not recognize. He has a gun too. You want the first round to HIT NOT MISS. Number 8 bird shot in his face will give you the chance to get your 45 long colt set up as the second shot into his body after you have blinded him or at least caused him to lose control of himself. The reality of the #8 is it spreads out at about a 15" circle in my tests at 12 feet. The reality of the above situation is that your life is on the line. I would rather have 8's on the first round because I know I am going to be shaking and could easily miss with a single slug round. The three pellets of 000 buck shot would also be a good second round followed by a 45 lc hollow point. I would never want to miss and always want to be the first shot off in a home defense situation. I practice this with the above rounds and a pie plate at 12 feet is totally covered with #8 shot in a rapid point and shoot situation (hard to miss if you are even close to accurate pointing). I love my Judge and would challenge anyone who thinks a load of #8's to the face will not make any intruder momentarily defenseless and give you time to get the slug round out of the barrel before he even knows what is going on. This whole discussion will probably offend a lot of anti gunners but I really don't care. I had an intruder in my home about 25 years ago and my 357 mag was cocked and ready. Fortunately I yelled and he ran out the back door without me having to use it. I don't ever want to have to use it but I want to be capable of using it if I ever have to. Try the tests in the dark that I have done and see what you think for yourself. I think the Judge as I use it is a very viable home defense round. Just my humble opinion.
I bought a Judge with short barrel two years ago. I have set up many different home defense situations and tested this gun extensively with everything from number 8 bird shot, 7-1/2 shot, #6, #4, 000buck, the Winchester copper plates with bird shot, and the 45 lc. I use the quick "point and shoot" tactic because that is what you will probably be doing at around 10-15 feet in the event of a surprise intrusion. So lets look at the typical picture. 3 AM in the morning you awake and someone is entering your house. You reach for the Judge and your 3 cell flash light. You hear the foot steps getting closer and you start to shake (if you don't you are not normal). Shaking like a leaf on a windy day you turn the three cell on and there at 12 feet is an intruder you do not recognize. He has a gun too. You want the first round to HIT NOT MISS. Number 8 bird shot in his face will give you the chance to get your 45 long colt set up as the second shot into his body after you have blinded him or at least caused him to lose control of himself. The reality of the #8 is it spreads out at about a 15" circle in my tests at 12 feet. The reality of the above situation is that your life is on the line. I would rather have 8's on the first round because I know I am going to be shaking and could easily miss with a single slug round. The three pellets of 000 buck shot would also be a good second round followed by a 45 lc hollow point. I would never want to miss and always want to be the first shot off in a home defense situation. I practice this with the above rounds and a pie plate at 12 feet is totally covered with #8 shot in a rapid point and shoot situation (hard to miss if you are even close to accurate pointing). I love my Judge and would challenge anyone who thinks a load of #8's to the face will not make any intruder momentarily defenseless and give you time to get the slug round out of the barrel before he even knows what is going on. This whole discussion will probably offend a lot of anti gunners but I really don't care. I had an intruder in my home about 25 years ago and my 357 mag was cocked and ready. Fortunately I yelled and he ran out the back door without me having to use it. I don't ever want to have to use it but I want to be capable of using it if I ever have to. Try the tests in the dark that I have done and see what you think for yourself. I think the Judge as I use it is a very viable home defense round. Just my humble opinion.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
If you blinded him, why shoot him again? That's rather rude.
You shot a blind man. So the medical authorities will examine the bad guy and determine that he was blind. Thus, no threat and your justification for the second shot is gone.
There are court cases where a pause in a string of shots ( bang, bang - several seconds - bang) was used to argue for premeditated murder as the first shots were disabling. Sounds nuts but it happened.
Also, while we all would be excited in an emergency - I'd rather train up for stress innoculation than trust an inherently inaccurate round with lesser efficacy.
Last, as said many times - I cannot guaranteed what is in back of a BG in my house (as other people live there). I don't want the gun to have a spread of projectiles ON top of my perhaps less accurate shooting.
A three cell flashlight - since when? We've moved quite beyond those.
You shot a blind man. So the medical authorities will examine the bad guy and determine that he was blind. Thus, no threat and your justification for the second shot is gone.
There are court cases where a pause in a string of shots ( bang, bang - several seconds - bang) was used to argue for premeditated murder as the first shots were disabling. Sounds nuts but it happened.
Also, while we all would be excited in an emergency - I'd rather train up for stress innoculation than trust an inherently inaccurate round with lesser efficacy.
Last, as said many times - I cannot guaranteed what is in back of a BG in my house (as other people live there). I don't want the gun to have a spread of projectiles ON top of my perhaps less accurate shooting.
A three cell flashlight - since when? We've moved quite beyond those.
Cheapshooter
New member
Or cost you and every one in your house their life because you got him peed off! I don't even remotely get the #8 shot for self defense. My PD Poly's use as SD is strictly as an anti-carjacking tool. two Federal 000 Buck up first, followed by 3 Winchester PDX1 225 gr. bonded 45 Colt rounds. An "in your face" defense that I think is more than adequate.
should been 6 shot, they cut his cylinder wrong, the walls were to thin and coulda blew the gun up if he shot it and really if he used 454
Pointshoot
New member
We all have our personal tastes - - - in girlfriends and wives - - and in guns. If someone likes the Judge or Governor - - Enjoy !
Personally, the main reason I would get such a gun is for poisonous snakes. I try to avoid them as they eat lots of vermin, but it would be nice to have some protection when in the deserts/mountains. But I find the Governor and Judge to be just too plain bulky and heavy for my tastes. I can't imagine carrying one in the field for that reason.
I'm not a super fan of the .410 particularly in a 3" shell. That long, skinny shot column tends to hammer& mangle the shot, and produces lousey shot patterns in shotguns. 2 1/2" shells produce better patterns with their shorter shot column.
But, I don't know if Taurus and S&W have somehow done something to improve the pattern of a .410.
For a snake gun I'd probably look at the Bond Arms derringers in 45 Colt &
2 1/2" .410. And this is also another 'justification' for me to buy a lightweight Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special and fill it with snake shot loads when in the field. Its light/small enough to carry even if I'm carrying another larger revolver. (I'm not a big fan of loading a couple shot loads in a chamber & the rest with bullets - - maybe an unexpected threat will require more than birdshot up front.)
Personally, the main reason I would get such a gun is for poisonous snakes. I try to avoid them as they eat lots of vermin, but it would be nice to have some protection when in the deserts/mountains. But I find the Governor and Judge to be just too plain bulky and heavy for my tastes. I can't imagine carrying one in the field for that reason.
I'm not a super fan of the .410 particularly in a 3" shell. That long, skinny shot column tends to hammer& mangle the shot, and produces lousey shot patterns in shotguns. 2 1/2" shells produce better patterns with their shorter shot column.
But, I don't know if Taurus and S&W have somehow done something to improve the pattern of a .410.
For a snake gun I'd probably look at the Bond Arms derringers in 45 Colt &
2 1/2" .410. And this is also another 'justification' for me to buy a lightweight Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special and fill it with snake shot loads when in the field. Its light/small enough to carry even if I'm carrying another larger revolver. (I'm not a big fan of loading a couple shot loads in a chamber & the rest with bullets - - maybe an unexpected threat will require more than birdshot up front.)
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"I don't know if Taurus and S&W have somehow done something to improve the pattern of a .410"
I hope people (who have never shot one) realize that the .410 pellets, regardless of size, are contained within the shotshell cup till long after it exits the bore of my poly Judge. Therefore, the barrel's rifling has quite a bit less of an effect than if you attempted to shoot a .45 Colt shot capsule thru the same gun. In my opinion, this is the primary factor in making the Judge a viable close quarters self defense weapon with either 4-pellet 000 buck shot or the PDX1 ammo. YMMV.
I hope people (who have never shot one) realize that the .410 pellets, regardless of size, are contained within the shotshell cup till long after it exits the bore of my poly Judge. Therefore, the barrel's rifling has quite a bit less of an effect than if you attempted to shoot a .45 Colt shot capsule thru the same gun. In my opinion, this is the primary factor in making the Judge a viable close quarters self defense weapon with either 4-pellet 000 buck shot or the PDX1 ammo. YMMV.
Pointshoot
New member
Hmm - that Poly Defender looks interesting. Smaller package than the Judge, which was one reason I didnt like that gun. I like that they use the 2 1/2" chamber, I bet that patterns better than their 3" guns. (Shorter shot columne means less battering of shot under the recoil of firing, which deforms them & opens up patterns. Especially important when firing lead birdshot.) I used to hunt a lot as a kid with a .410.
I've got other guns on my 'Want List' but would love to play with a Public Defender to see how it patterns. Looks like it'd do a number on poisonous snakes and be fun in the field.
I've got other guns on my 'Want List' but would love to play with a Public Defender to see how it patterns. Looks like it'd do a number on poisonous snakes and be fun in the field.
There is a 2" Judge Public Defender model that has 2 1/2 chambers. I believe it is at least as small (maybe smaller) as the poly
scottycoyote
New member
i bought a judge when they first came out thinking it would make a good camping/hiking/semi-survival gun. My judge had multiple problems, when i shot the 45 lc in it, it was very unaccurate and the bullets appeared to be tumbling from the tears in the paper. Now the 410 performance to me was pretty impressive from a hunting perspective, at 15 yards there was holes all over a full sized sillouhette target, so i believe you could take lots of small game with it. But on the minus side, when i shot 410 in it the cartridges swelled in the chambers and it would lock up the cylinder, and it was a bear to get them to eject. In the end i let mine go b/c it just had too many issues although ive heard the 410 issue is fixed by using target 410 loads.
This video isn't the very best, however it does summarize the intended purpose and useful range for the Judge. If you need a gun for hunting and/or longer distances, there are better choices, IMO. I'm happy with mine and it performs exactly like in the below video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttFslPwNEuc&playnext=1&list=PLA3B29EFD98F00688&feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttFslPwNEuc&playnext=1&list=PLA3B29EFD98F00688&feature=results_main
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
To go back to that initial OP question.
You are in a church, theater or lecture hall. You are quite a few rows back. In comes a rampage shooter.
Yes, you should flee, take cover, etc.
But, you want to take the shot - there are lots of folks between you and the shooter. You are shooting on a downward slope. Taking the shot with a conventional handgun will be hard given the stress, people around you, smoke, darkness - perhaps.
So do you want a gun that spreads out 00 or birdshot? Thanks for putting some pellets into the innocents or having minimal effect on the shooter (birdshot).
An AirForce military policeman took out a rampager at 75 yards with a M-9. You gonna do that with a Judge.
So, it's a mugger be gone gun. Very limited for anything else with the 410.
Yes, it's a gun and will work for somethings. It is NOT an optimal SD EDC.
I went shooting a couple of weekends ago and shot my Judge Polymer Public Defender side by side with my two other carry guns, a S&W 442 .38 spl and a Glock 19 9MM. In size it is very comparable to the others, bigger than the Smith, but smaller than the Glock.
At self- defense range, its accuracy is fine with the correct ammo. I carry it with the Federal OOO buck handgun load. I have tested this load quite a bit from my gun,
Here is 1 shot a t 5 yards.
And at 10 yards.
In penetration tests, the OOO buck fully penetrates 3 water filled gallon jugs and into the fourth.
45LC accuracy is fine from my gun,
Here is a video of some of the testing I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GNXqaKLuNg
At self- defense range, its accuracy is fine with the correct ammo. I carry it with the Federal OOO buck handgun load. I have tested this load quite a bit from my gun,
Here is 1 shot a t 5 yards.
And at 10 yards.
In penetration tests, the OOO buck fully penetrates 3 water filled gallon jugs and into the fourth.
45LC accuracy is fine from my gun,
Here is a video of some of the testing I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GNXqaKLuNg
That's why you vary the loads. My first two in the Gov are 410 Federal #4 Bird followed by 45 colt of your choice. It's not difficult to roll the cylinder if needed to bring the colts up front. Of course the Gov gives me one more round than the Judge
Oh, and by the way....you're average shooter is not going to take down the BG at 75 yds with most handguns, unless it's a statue.
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QuarterHorse
New member
Not the first on my "to buy" list but I'll get one soon as a "truck gun".
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