Target Stores - No Guns Please

Very classy; stiff the waitress for the whole check.
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I have to wonder if his suggestion is covered by the 1A? I understand it gets more leeway than the 2A, and it has a fairly large acreage that's protected compared to the 2A's window garden, but I have to wonder if it goes too far.

The guy is suggesting and even encouraging criminal action. At what point does he become an accessory? Conspiracy to commit? If I told people (which I'm in no way doing) to carry whatever somewhere they're not supposed to in a show of solidarity for our public relations deficient brethren couldn't I be arrested? How is telling people to dine and dash any different?
 
Very classy; stiff the waitress for the whole check.
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I wouldn't put it past our opponents (or lately, people claiming to be our allies) to do something awful like that just to make some point.

...a point that will, of course, be lost on the people to whom they're trying to make it.
 
JimDandy said:
Very classy; stiff the waitress for the whole check.
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I have to wonder if his suggestion is covered by the 1A? I understand it gets more leeway than the 2A, and it has a fairly large acreage that's protected compared to the 2A's window garden, but I have to wonder if it goes too far.
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My gut reaction, having done no research at all: Yes, the 1A covers his blog.

JimDandy said:
The guy is suggesting and even encouraging criminal action. At what point does he become an accessory? Conspiracy to commit? If I told people (which I'm in no way doing) to carry whatever somewhere they're not supposed to in a show of solidarity for our public relations deficient brethren couldn't I be arrested? How is telling people to dine and dash any different?
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Those who dine and dash, even at his suggestion, are indeed committing crimes. However, I don't think his suggestion about "what folks should do" is specific enough to make him an accessory. As a practical matter, it's extremely unlikely that anybody's going to prosecute "conspiracy to dine and dash."

In a follow-up piece, here, he claims that "this isn't dining and dashing," but rather that it may be some form of "civil disobedience." Clearly, he has a flawed understanding of "civil disobedience." Further, he's basically making the claim that owners won't be able to arrest everyone, if everyone leaves at once, so that makes it OK. A flawed understanding of exactly what it is that makes an action illegal.

What I find curious is his apparent belief that a business from which dozens of people do this little dine and dash will be able to hold the OC "demonstrators" liable for the bill. While I wholeheartedly disagree with the practices of the OC "demonstrators," there's no reason for them to pay for meals that they neither ordered nor consumed.
 
Local Target doesn't have any signs posted barring firearms or requesting that patrons don't enter with them.

So......I'm still carrying concealed. ;)
 
I will defer to the local store manager. If a sign is posted (legally binding sign or not) I won't carry there concealed or otherwise. If nothing is posted, I will feel free to do so -- but I so seldom shop at Target it's kind of a non-issue.
 
If I encounter some guy packing an AR in the local Wal-Mart, it is going to make me damned uncomfortable. Why the gun? There has not been a murder in a store in my hometown for many years. There are not gangs of meth heads roaming around killing people and shooting places up. Packing a firearm like that is about as lame as it gets. As stated many times--these guys make the rest of us gun owners look bad. :mad:
 
I so seldom shop at Target it's kind of a non-issue.
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Maybe it's just Target, and there are other stores in my neck of the woods. Not everyone may have that luxury. What if I'm in a rural area, and the only place within reasonable driving distance bans guns?

And it may not stop with Target. Perhaps they'll hit other shops in my area, resulting in more places banning it?

I'm still carrying concealed.
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That doesn't solve the moral or logistical problems. I've been politely asked not to participate in a behavior if I want to do business with them. If I flaunt that, what does that say about my character?

Furthermore, what if it's not as concealed as one might think? I stopped in Wal Mart one night after a match and had the "nobody knows it's a concealment vest" vest on. Joe Schmo looks at me in the checkout line and says, "I don't see a camera, so you must be packing!" Thanks, Joe. Really appreciate that.

At the end of the day, the problem is this: I never appointed Donnie Dorkus and his Neckbeard Brigade to speak for me, and I don't appreciate them causing problems.
 
Tom Servo said:
That doesn't solve the moral or logistical problems. I've been politely asked not to participate in a behavior if I want to do business with them. If I flaunt that, what does that say about my character?
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in the context of this thread, IMO, I see no moral problem as long as I'm not breaking the law.... but I'll agree that also as long as I'm not flaunting it, out of respect. I respect other peoples points of view, including those that don't want firearms around them I'll hangout or go somewhere else whenever possible. As long as I'm not flaunting it, nor breaking a law I'll go about my business as usual. I emailed a letter to Target letting them know that they have lost my business but honestly if its the only option at the time I'm not going out of my way over a simple errand or other logistic that makes it impractical to drive across town to get the same item elsewhere.

FWIW in my state signage does not carry the force of the law.

These open carriers out shopping are ruining it for us all.
 
Maybe it's just Target, and there are other stores in my neck of the woods. Not everyone may have that luxury. What if I'm in a rural area, and the only place within reasonable driving distance bans guns?
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Well there's still a couple choices. You can: shop on Amazon or another mail-it-to-me business, OR you can call the manager and have them ferry the stuff out to the parking lot for you so the store can still get your business and you can respect their policy. A time or two of that, and my money says (especially in a small town where the manager went to school with you or a generationally appropriate relative) you'll either get special permission from the manager who doesn't want to be bothered, or they'll just refuse. And if you save up your shopping for large runs, they'll be far more likely to grant the former and far less likely to do the second.
 
Well there's still a couple choices. You can: shop on Amazon or another mail-it-to-me business, OR you can call the manager and have them ferry the stuff out to the parking lot for you so the store can still get your business and you can respect their policy.
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OR people could not act out and cause trouble for the rest of us.

Those approaches miss the point, which is that none of those workarounds should be necessary. My privileges have been curtailed because of the actions of irresponsible people. There's no justifying that or explaining it away.
 
My privileges have been curtailed because of the actions of irresponsible people.
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I agree. I wish the NRA would once again re-think their policy on these radical open carry zealots and openly speak out against their tactics. These folks make us all look like idiots and could actual do more to restrict the average gun owner than Ms. Feinstein ever did. Groups like Moms Demand Action are using these incidents to gain influence and push private companies to deny us the privilege of carrying in their establishment. The bottom line is we may win at the statehouse or the courthouse and end up losing on main street.
 
I'm from Texas and I'd like to apologize for these guys that are causing more harm than good.
I conceal carry into Target and don't have any problems. I haven't gone in the past week or so to see if they started posting any legally required signage or not, but they didn't before.
The one thing that freaks me out about Texas CC law is that hospitals are banned but banks are not. I wonder if you can open carry into a bank in Texas?
 
Ok - Iowa signs don't have the force of law but if asked you have to go.

You don't have the right to carry once told you cannot.

That the case?
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If asked to leave and you refuse you can be charged with trespassing. If asked to leave for any reason and refuse you can be charged with trespassing. It has nothing to do with carrying and everything to do with being asked to leave for whatever reasonable reason and refusing.

I ignore all signage I don't consider it unethical. If I were ever asked to leave I would. If someone who knew I carried asked me not to come into their home with my sidearm I would politely decline to go into their home. Same goes for any business.

The only time I have had to draw my sidearm as a civilian was in a Target parking lot. I nearly did not have it because I was just at the doctors office and left it in my car out of respect for the doctors wishes. I doubled back for it once at Target. I don't leave it in my car anymore.
 
carguychris said:
I haven't seen any 30.06 signs at Target. Furthermore, the ambivalent wording of their statement makes it unclear whether they intend to post the signs.
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Did you read this, post #19?

Molly Snyder, a Target spokeswoman, said the retailer will not post signs at its stores asking people not to bring guns inside. “It is not a ban,” she said. “There is no prohibition.”
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http://www.startribune.com/business/265535731.html
 
Well here you go. It sure didn't take long for the criminals to take notice and take advantage of the opportunity.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1343779/tar...res-customers/
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There is no way to discern the casuality in the post about Target by 2123 in #83.

So that's just straining for something.
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The same sort of straining came about with JIB..
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Abiding-Citizens-Asked-To-Leave-Guns-At-Home

What is interesting is that two of the JIB robberies took place in the parking lot of people who were not customers of JIB. The third was a bona fide in-store robbery. The number of incidents of JIB robberies were not increased by these events as they already happen with some frequency across the country and so there is no way to show a correlation between the ban and the events, even if they happened to actual JIB patrons who would have been affected by the ban. I suspect, but have not verified, that people get robbed in parking lots across the country as well, be it in Walmart, Target, Lowes, Home Depot, or any other high traffic national chain. In fact, a quick Google search reveals that such events happen with a LOT of regularity in Walmart parking lots and Walmart doesn't ban guns.
https://www.google.com/#q=robbed+in+walmart+parking+lot
 
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