"Target" rifle?

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

erted45

Inactive
Hello everyone,

I'm new on this forum, and I could use some help. I'm faced with a dilemma;

I currently own a Browning X-Bolt Hunter in .308W (first generation).

I'm very happy with the rifle, it performs great. However, I would also like to practice some target shooting alongside hunting, and the Browning struggles here, loosing quite a lot of it's accuracy after just a few (~5) consecutive shots.

I am therefore in a somewhat obsessed with replacing it (not actually sure it's gonna happen), and here is where I could use some help.

To clarify: I'm looking for a rifle with a heavy(er) barrel, that I could use for target shooting up to 300 yards and for hunting up to a maximum of 500 yards. The budget is whatever I could get from selling the X-Bolt (~ $1500, scope and mount included).

Here are some rifles I was looking at together with the prices (I'm form Europe, so be sure to be sitting down when you read the prices :D )

-Remington 700 SPS Varmint (~ $1215)
-Remington 700 SPS Tactical (~ $1240)
-Savage 12 VLP DBM (~ $ 1640)
-Howa 1500 Varminter Supreme (~ $1120)
-CZ 550 Varmint (~ $1515)
-Savage 10 Precision Carbine (~ $1315)
-Browning X-Bolt Varmint SF (~ $1140)
-Tikka T3 Varmint (~ $1550)

I should also mention that getting replacement parts around here is not impossible, but the there isn't much choice and parts are generally quite expensive (getting them from the USA is also a pain due to import taxes, customs ...), therefore I would, if possible, try to get a rifle that is all set to go out of the box and doesn't require a ton of mods to make it shoot well. I would also like a reliable rifle (who wouldn't? :D )

Of the rifles listed, I'm most inclined towards getting the X-Bolt Varmint, as I'm familiar with it, it's one of the cheapest from the list and I suspect it would perform well (mine shoots better than me and is under an inch at 100 yds easy if I do my part).

The second choice would probably be the Precision Carbine. Though I've never seen or handled it before, I just kinda like it, it's well equipped out of the box and well priced.

Any recommendations?

Thank you,
erted45
 
Welcome to the forum!

For my money, I would buy the Tikka every day, and twice on Sunday.
It will have a better trigger than most on your list, the smoothest action of all on your list, and will shoot lights out right out of the box!

With either Savage a close second...
 
tareget rifle

Are you happy with the 308 or would you consider other caibres?

Do you have a preference of stock material...ie synthetic or wood?

Are you fixed on a bolt action rifle?

Do you reload?

What sort of hunting will you be doing?
 
erted45 said:
I'm looking for a rifle with a heavy(er) barrel, that I could use for target shooting up to 300 yards and for hunting up to a maximum of 500 yards.
Click to expand...

Another vote for the Tikka first, then the Savage.

I'm very impressed with my Tikka. On to top of that, I think it'd be the better of the two for double duty (target/hunting).

The Savage is heavy(er) and has a long(er) barrel, so if it were purely for target, I might be persuaded to opt for the Savage. ;)

Welcome to TFL, btw!
 
From the list you posted my choice would be the Howa. However I would prefer the Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special made by Howa for Weatherby because of the accuracy garruntee. (sp)
Dallas Jack
 
The Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor is winning 1k matches right out of the box.
If you would entertain the cartridge and rifle, you would not be disappointed. There is a world of difference between the regular and BR Savage action.
 
reynolds357 said:
The Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor is winning 1k matches right out of the box.
If you would entertain the cartridge and rifle, you would not be disappointed. There is a world of difference between the regular and BR Savage action.
Click to expand...
Another vote for both the cartridge and the rifle. I love my 6.5 creedmoor, i dont have the 12lrp but ive seen it in action and wow.
 
Have you tried slow shooting first?

There's the key. I've seen many standard profile barrels shoot as accurately as heavier barrels --FOR 3-5 SHOTS (with cooling time between shots). It's a little harder to shoot those lighter rifles due to recoil and the fact that weight=inertia---which reduces wobbles.
 
In F-class matches, where 10 shots are fired in as many minutes, barrels not fit properly to receivers will string shots in some direction. Savage rifles typically do well in such events, so I think their barrels have to be fit better than all the others. I'm not aware of any other commercial rifle that does that.

Few, if any, commercial rifles hold zero after 3 or 4 shots as their barrels heat up, expand and put more pressure on the high point where they bear hardest against the receiver. If receivers were faced square with their barrel tenon thread axis, shot stringing never happens. Except with barrels of poor stress relieving methods.

Properly fit, good quality barrels, in match rifles with squared up receivers have put 40 shots into 1/3 MOA at 600 yards fired once every 20 to 30 seconds starting with a cold barrel. How hot did that barrel get?
 
Thanks for the welcome.

Are you happy with the 308 or would you consider other caibres?

Do you have a preference of stock material...ie synthetic or wood?

Are you fixed on a bolt action rifle?

Do you reload?

What sort of hunting will you be doing?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm fairly satisfied with the .308. I was interested in the .300 WM but I think it would just turn out to be unnecessary punishment, both on the shoulder and on the wallet.
As far as stocks are concerned, if I must state an order it would probably be 1. synthetic, 2. laminate wood, 3. "plain" wood, but I'm not too picky, but I'd be happiest with a synthetic stock simply due to the fact it's a bit more conditions resistant than wood.

I'm also pretty sure a bolt action is the best way to go. I should also note that I can't buy any military-like semi autos (eg. AR-15 or AR-10) with my hunting licence (these weapons can only be bought by either collectors or sports shooters).

As of now I don't reload, however, I would probably get into it once I started shooting a bit more.

And finally, I hunt in pretty much every way imaginable. Stalking, hunting form stands, driven hunts, hunting up in the mountains, hunting in thick brush, you name it.

Have you tried slow shooting first?
Click to expand...

I did, leaving the barrel to cool for 5 minutes between each shot. It didn't help much, though.

The Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor is winning 1k matches right out of the box.
If you would entertain the cartridge and rifle, you would not be disappointed. There is a world of difference between the regular and BR Savage action.
Click to expand...

I was checking this beauty out for quite some time, and while it looks absolutely delicious I'm a bit concerned because of the cartridge. If I got this one I would definitely have to go into reloading (but then again, if I wanted to be serious I would have to, regardless of the cartridge). I'm also not sure I'd want to drag it around through the brush, because I think it would be somewhat out of place :D


Also, regarding the Tikka. I must admit I do like it and I know they're fine firearms. There are a couple things I don't like, mainly the fact that Tikkas are long-action only and have whole lot of plastic, but to be honest, the long action doesn't make a huge difference and the plastic can be easily replaced.

Thanks again,

erted45
 
erted45 said:
Also, regarding the Tikka. I must admit I do like it and I know they're fine firearms. There are a couple things I don't like, mainly the fact that Tikkas are long-action only and have whole lot of plastic, but to be honest, the long action doesn't make a huge difference and the plastic can be easily replaced.
Click to expand...

I have a preference for short actions as well, but to be honest, it's a non-issue with my Tikka. The receiver may be long action, but the bolt throw is still short action. And the 70° bolt lift makes for some speedy bolt manipulation and gives you more clearance to the scope.

Though I recommended a Tikka, there a few things I don't like about them as hunting rifles. First is the 2-position safety. I have a preference for a 3-position safety. I also find it hard to manipulate a tab safety quickly. The second is that in most cases, the mags seem very easy to come out. Good for a tactical rifle, but not so good for a hunting rifle. My CTR is unique among T3s in that it uses an all-steel 10-round Sako TRG mag, and the mag release isn't as easy to inadvertently hit. Among the Tikkas, I think it'd make the best hunting rifle.

I don't know what your budget is, but if Tikkas look attractive, but you'd like a better hunting rifle, check out the Sako 85 Varminter. Sako 85s are a premium rifle (high end cousins to Tikkas) and known for their outstanding accuracy. For hunting, I'd prefer a Sako, as their mags aren't nearly as easy to accidentally drop in the field, and while their safety is technically 2-position, they have a tab that allows it to function as a 3-position. And if you like CRF, Sako 85s have their version of CRF. A Sako Varminter would be a great dual-purpose rifle.
 
The Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor is winning 1k matches right out of the box.
If you would entertain the cartridge and rifle, you would not be disappointed. There is a world of difference between the regular and BR Savage action.

I really like mine.....
 
I have a preference for short actions as well, but to be honest, it's a non-issue with my Tikka. The receiver may be long action, but the bolt throw is still short action. And the 70° bolt lift makes for some speedy bolt manipulation and gives you more clearance to the scope.

Though I recommended a Tikka, there a few things I don't like about them as hunting rifles. First is the 2-position safety. I have a preference for a 3-position safety. I also find it hard to manipulate a tab safety quickly. The second is that in most cases, the mags seem very easy to come out. Good for a tactical rifle, but not so good for a hunting rifle. My CTR is unique among T3s in that it uses an all-steel 10-round Sako TRG mag, and the mag release isn't as easy to inadvertently hit. Among the Tikkas, I think it'd make the best hunting rifle.

I don't know what your budget is, but if Tikkas look attractive, but you'd like a better hunting rifle, check out the Sako 85 Varminter. Sako 85s are a premium rifle (high end cousins to Tikkas) and known for their outstanding accuracy. For hunting, I'd prefer a Sako, as their mags aren't nearly as easy to accidentally drop in the field, and while their safety is technically 2-position, they have a tab that allows it to function as a 3-position. And if you like CRF, Sako 85s have their version of CRF. A Sako Varminter would be a great dual-purpose rifle.
Click to expand...

Looks like the Tikka is very popular around here :D. I must admit I underestimated it a bit. It is, after all, made by Sako (isn't Tikka basically a budget Sako, with slightly worse stock, magazine, plastic trigger guard and a slightly simplified bolt?)

I should also mention that the Tikka actually has a decent aftermarket support around here, with custom bolt shrouds, bolt handles, stocks, triggers, and magazines readily available.

So yea, I guess Tikka, with Savage in second place?
 
There's one more thing I would like some more info on. I did some messing around, comparing and adding up prices of different Tikka rifles and aftermarket parts. I came up with a config, consisting of the following: Tikka T3 Varmint + custom stock (GRS Decima) + custom trigger (Bix'n'Andy) + custom magazine system (AICS) + some other bits and pieces (custom bolt handle, bolt shroud... ) + some work on the action, bedding (I'm also aware that some of these parts are a bit unnecessary or a slight overkill, but hey, better safe than sorry or something :D )...

All in all, I'm looking at around $3-4k (I would, of course, add these parts periodically, not all at once). My concern here is that for $3-4k I could get a fully custom build rifle that would most likely smoke the "custom" Tikka. Or would it?

So, would it pay off to upgrade the Tikka, or is it perfectly fine as it is (out of the box)? In other words, how much would I gain by replacing all these parts (and yea, I know this is somewhat relative)?

Thanks
 
My $0.02? For informal target work and hunting to 500ish yards, I'd buy the Tikka Varmint, maybe get the receiver bedded, then shoot it as is, investing money into a good scope and reloading equipment & components. Beyond bedding, I doubt those other goodies are going to make a radical difference in the performance of that rifle, especially if you didn't also replace the barrel with a premium barrel (Krieger, Hart, etc).

Personally, if I were going to spend $3-4k, it'd either be for one really nice hunting rifle that I'd hang onto & use forever, or for a dedicated target rifle for 600+ yards (e.g. Sako TRG, Accuracy International AE MkIII, etc). The TRG & AI are good quality LR rifles with, unlike $3-4k spent on a custom rifle, good re-sale value.
 
It is almost like people CHOOSE tikka over sako nowadays

SAKOS seem to be more about luxuary then usage

I got three in grs stocks and couldn't be happier
 
People choose Tikka because you get basically the same performance and reliability, minus the aesthetics, for a fraction of the price.

As for the upgrades on the tikka, I think you will find they are not required. Trigger is excellent and user adjustable, down to 1.5lbs on the varmint model I think. Changing the stock will be more about comfortable for you than needed to make the gun shoot better.

All Tikkas are required to put 3 shots into a group of 1-inch or less before it can leave the factory....

I think once you get it and try it, you will find that there is not much you can do to it to make it shoot better than it already does, aside from finding a custom hand load that it shoots really well vs off the shelf factory ammo made to shoot decent in all guns chambered in that caliber.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top