SxS's for H/D!

Same down here. For any of the advanced courses, such as the $600 one you mention, you have to document some experience - usually as LE or personal security - or that you have taken less advanced courses - otherwise there are more fundamental courses. A newbie can find an introductory course from about $50-$100. For example, one fairly highly recommended outfit teaches a shotgun home defense course for $75 as well as several more advanced courses.
 
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We all come from different backgrounds ...some of us were shooting and hunting as young kids, were in the military, have been recreational shooters for years....and to some this is all new stuff....

The best courses will adapt to the experience of the shooter..../or sometimes, for less money, you can find someone that will set up a 2 hour private lesson --- then you can get some range time -- and go back for a more advanced private lesson...
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I have a new friend ...that is in his mid 50's ...and he's only been around guns at all for about 6 months...( he's an American citizen now but grew up in England..)../ but he reads a lot - he bought Ayoob's latest edition book on Combat Handgunnery.../ we've included him in our weekly tactical shooting courses of fire - and he's coming along slowly / we've included him in a couple of outings on sporting clays.../ he's soaking it up like a sponge...
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He's just getting to the point where a good professional class would accelerate or at least reinforce some of the stuff my buddies and I are teaching him.../ and he'll never carry ...he just wants the skill and knowledge ...and to test his skills ( he's asked about tactical shotguns too / and I've told him many of the same things...so for right now he's staying with his Glock model 17..)..

So no one answer is right for everyone...just like my list of the top 8 home defense weapon platforms....your list may be different from mine...
 
Obviouslly, I lit the fuse on a GREAT thread!
So many thoughtful responses, a few disagreements on shell count which made sense.
generally, noone wants to face a doublebarrel cause death will likely follow, so I think you'd be well armed. Still 5-9 shots would be good...
I have both, a 20ga Double and a chopped 12ga pump.
If I have time I'm grabbing the Pump but I may not be near it, or in my and my wife's case are Disabled and often in pain so bad the 12 would just be too much to handle. I change defensive guns regularily as our conditions change. Familiarity with the two is needed.
I know the wife much prefers th low recoil of the 12ga, so I make it vailable to her.
No fancy lights, scopes,slings, or ammo carriers, just the guns. Nothing to snag or hurt yourself on while bringing the gun to battery.
I sincerely hope to never need them but it's sure comforting to have em.
ZVP
 
Bucketotruth... Look it up

Birdshot is no good. I have conversed, both online and in person, with emergency room nurses and docs. Birdshot leaves a nasty hole but isn't very leathal due to extreme lack of penetration. Larger buckshot and BB tungsten are organ grinders apparently. Up close, they really tear a body up. Although birdshot can blow peoples' fingers off pretty effectively LOL.

HD is about incapaciating the criminal quickly. Organ damage tends to do Just that.
 
HD is about incapaciating the criminal quickly.
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Yes!.. and, no.

Home defense is about stopping the attack. If it takes incapacitating the attacker, then that's what it takes. If the attacker flees at the sight (or sound) of a gun, defense was successful.

No, birdshot isn't very lethal. But the key here is "very". IT can, and has killed. Make no mistake about it.

Emergency room docs telling us about the horrific (but shallow) wounds from bird shot is valid data, but, can they tell us if the bad guys who got shot with birdshot were stopped from doing whatever it was that got them shot?

That data, I never seem to hear.

Certainly it is prudent to use ammo that will stop an attacker under the worst possible conditions, and for that, birdshot is NOT the best choice. No argument there. Just don't fall into the mental trap that since it isn't the best choice it is totally useless, or harmless. Its not.
 
If birdshot is only for birds, wouldn't buckshot be only for male deer?
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Well, not really because male deer are actually constructed pretty similarly to a male/female human, so it actually makes sense to use. How many humans do you know are built like small birds? How many people hunt deer with birdshot (effectively)?

birdshot is for birds and similar small animals with thin skin, and thinner, weaker bones.
Buckshot is for deer and similarly constructed animals, which includes humans.

I'm not saying it will have ZERO effectiveness, it's just not a smart choice IMO, and I would never go out of my way to choose a birdshot load, when I have buckshot loads available, personally. Of course other people are free to chose the loads they want.
 
Not too long ago I watched one of those "reality" ER shows. A young was wheeled in having been shot in the chest with .357 magnum. he survived with minimal long term consequences. I guess this eliminates the 357 magnum as a viable self defense cartridge.
 
I don't talk to a lot of ER personnel, unless I'm at work since I work there. I've only seen 4 people shot with birdshot, 3 who were out to do harm. None died instantly, 3 eventually left the hospital wrapped in plastic, all stopped what they were doing after the shot hit.
 
We seems to have started a caliber, or should I say gauge war regarding what is most effective. I have seen birdshot or even skeet shot recommend for use in a closed in area-say an apartment or town house to avoid over penetration.
 
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