Substantial DEEP concealment
- Thread starter Elliottsdad
- Start date
Cosmodragoon
New member
Don't discount the LCR 327. It offers six shots and with .327 Federal, you've got a decent range of power available. At maximum, there are some 100-grain loads that start to feel and act more like .357 magnum. On the lower end, there are 85-grain Hydro-Shoks that recoil like midweight .38 +p but produce more enjoyable results on water jugs.
If lower recoil or less report are factors, .32 H&R magnum compares reasonably well with standard-pressure .38 special. You can also use .32 Long but that starts encroaching on some of the more questionable caliber choices mentioned above.TruthTellers
New member
The steel frame LCR's weight 17oz. Not exactly deep concealment guns.Don't discount the LCR 327. It offers six shots and with .327 Federal, you've got a decent range of power available. At maximum, there are some 100-grain loads that start to feel and act more like .357 magnum. On the lower end, there are 85-grain Hydro-Shoks that recoil like midweight .38 +p but produce more enjoyable results on water jugs.
I'm with those who say you probably shouldn't carry if it is illegal where you (or your friend) works. Face it, you won't be facing jail time in addition to being fired if caught unless it is illegal. You go to jail for carrying illegally and you lose your freedom and all your rights, and when you get out you lose your right to carry anywhere or even to own a gun. Also, as others have said, it definitely sounds like you are talking about the schools, and as a teacher, I don't think it is a good idea to carry in a state that doesn't allow you to carry in schools on your CCW permit (should you be "allowed" to, of course, but it isn't worth the risk). Carrying so much as a pocket knife or pepper spray (any weapon) is illegal under federal law unless covered and allowed by your state CCW permit.
All carry methods can fail. When jail and not just embarrassment (or firing) is the possible consequence, that is pretty drastic. I live in MD where most people can not get a CCW permit. I won't say I never carry here in MD, but theoretically if I would it would only be in the most occasional (2 or 3 times a year) and drastic of circumstances (I have to go to a questionable part of town at night and can't get out of it, I have to go to a really bad part of town during the day and can't get out of it, in some cases having to go to an ATM at night might count and in others it wouldn't). Things fall out of pockets, pants legs hike up your leg, shirts and jackets lift, etc.
As a teacher, my solution so I'm not totally helpless should something occur, improvised weapons (yes, it sucks). I have always liked nice pens, and a heavy Waterman or Mont Blanc pen made of metal can do some damage if employed right. A heavy wood cane umbrella can be useful as a hand to hand weapon. A letter opener, or scissors... All these things are not primarily weapons, and they have obvious other uses, so they won't get you in trouble, but can be effective hand to hand self defense weapons. I know it sucks, but when the chances of getting caught carrying a weapon and getting in major trouble are much greater than the chances of actually needing the defensive weapon, I err on the side of caution and don't carry a gun (or at work, a knife or pepper spray).
All carry methods can fail. When jail and not just embarrassment (or firing) is the possible consequence, that is pretty drastic. I live in MD where most people can not get a CCW permit. I won't say I never carry here in MD, but theoretically if I would it would only be in the most occasional (2 or 3 times a year) and drastic of circumstances (I have to go to a questionable part of town at night and can't get out of it, I have to go to a really bad part of town during the day and can't get out of it, in some cases having to go to an ATM at night might count and in others it wouldn't). Things fall out of pockets, pants legs hike up your leg, shirts and jackets lift, etc.
As a teacher, my solution so I'm not totally helpless should something occur, improvised weapons (yes, it sucks). I have always liked nice pens, and a heavy Waterman or Mont Blanc pen made of metal can do some damage if employed right. A heavy wood cane umbrella can be useful as a hand to hand weapon. A letter opener, or scissors... All these things are not primarily weapons, and they have obvious other uses, so they won't get you in trouble, but can be effective hand to hand self defense weapons. I know it sucks, but when the chances of getting caught carrying a weapon and getting in major trouble are much greater than the chances of actually needing the defensive weapon, I err on the side of caution and don't carry a gun (or at work, a knife or pepper spray).
Cosmodragoon
New member
The number on paper looks more substantial than it is. It has to be considered in context with carry method and relative difference.
The LCR 38 was my three-season EDC for a few years. It was exclusively pocket-carried in an Elite Survival pocket holster. I have a couple pairs of slacks that didn't cooperate fully but in most pants I own, it was an easy EDC.
Then I switched to the LCR 327 and it really wasn't a big deal. That little bit of extra weight in the magnum frame is apparent when handling them side by side. When it's loaded, in a pocket holster, in your pocket; not so much. I carry the LCR 327 just like I carried the LCR 38, in the same kinds of pants, doing the same kinds of things. It's a seamless part of my day, just like the LCR 38 was.
TruthTellers
New member
The OP is specifying deep concealment and to me, pocket carry isn't deep concealment. DC is carrying in places far from normal or in a less than ideally comfortable method. This is where size, weight, and the shape of the gun become very important. Generally the lighter the gun, the less the size and shape matter. The heavier the gun, the more it matters.
If you use the right gear, size and weight really arent that much of an issue.
I easily carry a Glock 26, along with a spare 17 mag as a reload, where I used to carry my Seecamp 32.
And I can do that on any given day, comfortably, in a pair of shorts, with no shirt if I choose.
Now, if you insist on a Speedo, the Seecamp would be the better choice.
Ak103k,
I respect much of your input at this site but quite frankly sir that statement is simply inaccurate and silly.
No offense but obviously you've never been in need of real concealment such as that which can be achieved with the seecamp or similar vs something as large as a glock 26.
Ain't about your comfort, it's about what you can get past the bad guys.
Cosmodragoon
New member
That's what I mean by "relative". For instance, pocket carry with a pocket holster was the constant in my case. In that context, the difference between LCR frame types was negligible. So if pocket carry is an option for the OP, and a revolver such as an LCR or alloy J-frame will work, then the LCR 327 could be a good option.
The question here will boil down to (1) whether pocket-carrying a centerfire revolver is possible in the first place, and (2) what types of pants the OP wears, how well they work with it, etc. I've played around with the second consideration. Proper pockets matter. Then it can come down to things like pleated versus flat front. Wranglers are great if work doesn't require more formal attire, and dark colors are generally better than khaki.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's really nice if it does though. As a class, I feel like the small centerfire revolvers offer a higher level of reliability, ease of shooting, and better caliber choices versus the really small guns.
I carried a Seecamp in a number of ways, and found that a Smart Carry worked the best for me, especially in places I couldnt afford to be discovered.Ak103k,
I respect much of your input at this site but quite frankly sir that statement is simply inaccurate and silly.
No offense but obviously you've never been in need of real concealment such as that which can be achieved with the seecamp or similar vs something as large as a glock 26.
Ain't about your comfort, it's about what you can get past the bad guys.
It didnt take me long to figure out that I could carry my 26 in the exact same place, and in the exact same way, just as easily, and just as comfortably, and carry a full size reload in the same holster with it.
Ive been doing that in NPE's, on a regular basis, for about 13 years now. At the very least, I just lose my job if discovered. Its not a game either, its just life.
I also carry a Glock 17 with its reload, on a daily basis as well, year round too, and have had no issues doing that in places and ways Im often told by internet experts, it couldnt be possible.
Seems some of us actually do, do things, and others just tell us its not possible. Kind of hard to take those people too serious, when you do it all the time, "for real", and youre constantly told, its not possible.
As far as comfort goes, Ive always found things like the SC and IWB/AIWB, to be quite comfortable, and very concealable. I would be interested in hearing your experiences that might be contrary to that though.
TruthTellers
New member
I think the same too, I just don't think a 17oz LCR is great for deep concealment. A 13oz .32 Mag LCR would be better, but Ruger doesn't seem to care about the .32 Mag or a .32 LCP.
I'm not saying anything isn't possible if you have buffoons maintaining security at wherever you're attempting to enter.
Why do you assume I've been speaking hypothetically or as an "internet expert"?
Are you honestly trying to convince us you surreptitiously carried Glock 17 or 26 pistols into the same kind of places you packed your Seecamp?
If so, I'm thinkin they weren't really concerned about you packin.
Or maybe you own stock in a particular kind of pistol holster company.
AK103K, you've gotten me a little annoyed. Would it help to alleviate your concerns that I'm not just some kind of "internet expert" blowin smoke up your keister if I were to pm you my name with a link to a news article?
Maybe one wherein I was involved in the apprehension of an assailant who had been involved in causing the death of the first female FBI agent killed in the line of duty?
Maybe one wherein I was involved in the apprehension of an assailant who had been involved in causing the death of the first female FBI agent killed in the line of duty?
Well, so far, I haven't had to find out, because no one has seen that I was.
I'm not speaking "hypothetically" here, Ive been doing this for over 40 years now, and have yet to have been outed doing so.
And those "buffoons" you speak of, are often local and state police, both in and out of their offices, and in close physical proximity in public (I'm not in or associated with law enforcement).
As I said, some of us do actually carry guns concealed on a daily basis, all day, every day. And realistic guns to boot.
This isn't about fashion statements or something similar, it's about a lifestyle you choose, and you either do it, or you don't.
It seems we lead different lifestyles.
And no, I'm not associated with an holster companies either, but I do have a couple of favorites that I've found to work very well for the active lifestyle I lead. And of course, that's an ever ongoing thing too, and constantly being revised as better things come along.
If you can't carry and conceal something realistic, it's because it's a choice, not because it's not possible. And that's fine, do what you want. It's just annoying to be told you "can't" do it, by someone who "won't" do it, and because of that, figures others couldn't possibly do it, simply because they won't, or in their mind, can't.
"Can't" is such a negative word. Open your mind, there's a whole different world out there if you do. The only one holding you back, is you.
AK103K,
Indeed. And at the risk of sounding terribly over dramatic, errors on my part meant the very real possibility of losing my life rather than as in your situation just a job.
Yeah, plenty of buffoons wearing badges out there including the ones who got Robin Ahrens killed. Cops are not necessarily the gold standard. I'm not particularly impressed with your analogy regarding whatever the heck point you were trying to make with that comment.
I wasn't trying to tell you that your model 26 or 17 couldn't be concealed under the right circumstances. Only that you're lying to yourself and anyone listening it you don't appreciate the advantages of a ACTUAL concealable weapon.
Indeed. And at the risk of sounding terribly over dramatic, errors on my part meant the very real possibility of losing my life rather than as in your situation just a job.
Yeah, plenty of buffoons wearing badges out there including the ones who got Robin Ahrens killed. Cops are not necessarily the gold standard. I'm not particularly impressed with your analogy regarding whatever the heck point you were trying to make with that comment.
I wasn't trying to tell you that your model 26 or 17 couldn't be concealed under the right circumstances. Only that you're lying to yourself and anyone listening it you don't appreciate the advantages of a ACTUAL concealable weapon.
Cosmodragoon
New member
If they released a six-shot .32 H&R magnum LCR on the lighter frame, it might appeal to some people. Before the LCR came out in .327 Federal, I'd actually been hunting around for one of the older alloy J-frames in .32 H&R magnum. This might be an emotional throwback to when six-shooters were the norm but I feel much better with six shots than I do with five.
Of course, that's a novelty that'll never happen. I'm still waiting for the 3" LCRX to come out in .327 Federal. The magnum frame has been available for a while now. I figured for sure that they'd have a .327 version out by Christmas. Sadly, not a peep. Every time I get a Ruger newsletter in my inbox, I wonder if that'll be the day...
TruthTellers
New member
Ruger does seem to have put a halt on adding any more models to their established lines, instead releasing the Wrangler and "Super" GP100. They have about reached the limit with the number of chamberings they can offer for their revolvers, but they could do more with all the LCR's, not just the aluminum ones. I personally would like to see a 5 or 6 inch longer barrel in the .22 LR and Magnums, maybe even the .357.
I get the sense that Ruger is planning some surprises for SHOT next month, they've haven't made much of a splash at SHOT in years, it's like they're almost forgotten about in the professional gun media.
I too like the old fashioned 6 shooter in a revolver, but a 5 shot has its place. I bought the Taurus Public Defender earlier this year and really like how slim it is compared to a Governor. If the .32 revolver starts to grow in popularity with CCW, maybe somebody will look at making an I frame size revolver again for a 5 shot .32 Mag or S&W Long. Whichever can be made smaller and lighter.
The reason I carry a gun, and a realistic one at that, is for the same reason as you. You just seem to think youre limited to a third line back up gun to do it. Youre not. Thats all Im saying.
My point with the cops is, they are generally more aware and paying better attention than your average person. May not be the gold standard, but its a lot higher standard than your average citizen or person lost in their phone.
Ive passed through quite a few "checkpoints" where they actually were "looking" for, and asking if you had weapons or things of the such, and walked right on through. And more often than not, that was with my 17 or another full sized handgun on under my shirt.
What you seem to be missing, and/or fighting is, that while the Seecamp is small, size isnt always the thing that makes things work. Theres more to things than just size.
You also seem to be missing the point that I carry my 26, in the EXACT same place, and in the EXACT same way and conditions, as I did my Seecamp. And it works the same, and under ALL circumstances, short of a Speedo, and I doubt the Seecamp would work there too.
I also work a very physical job, and play the same way when Im off. Im not sitting/hiding behind a desk or steering wheel, or standing statue still, hoping to make things work, Im constantly moving around all day, doing all sorts of physical things, and more often than not, in close contact with people, doing things together. And all that in pretty much any environment/venue you can come up with.
The reason why I carry the 26 over the Seecamp is, its a much more realistic gun, thats easier to get a hold of in a hurry, has a set of realistic sights on the gun and is much easier to shoot well with. And shoots like a full size gun and at pretty much all the same distances. It can also have the same capacity as my 17, with a simple mag change. It gives me a MUCH better chance, if Im unlucky enough to have to need it. Isnt that the whole point of the gun you choose?
For me, the Seecamp, and more recently, a NAA Mini revolver, and a few other guns of the type, are all, third line, last ditch guns. Those type guns are really not what you want to be carrying as a primary gun, and theres really no need to do so.
Unless of course, thats what you want to do. And Im perfectly fine with that, your life is your worry, and isnt my concern. We all do what we think is best for ourselves.
Im just as worried as you about losing my life, but I just choose to use a more realistic tool(s) for the job. And I do that on a daily basis, anywhere there isnt a metal detector.
If youve never used one, and are as concerned as you say, I highly suggest you give a Smart Carry a try. Youll be amazed at how well they work, and with what. And you ARE NOT limited to last ditch guns.
Blade-Techs "Ambi Klipt", and things like Suarez's "Gunfighter" AIWB also work very well for the full sized guns. I highly recommend them too.
You would be surprised at how little people actually pay attention, even to something as obvious as a Sneaky Pete holster. I don't have to go any smaller than an LCP (Magguts gives it 7+1). It has a techna clip to which rides low inside the waist. Most often, it's in a Remora pocket holster, either in the pocket or tucked in the waistband. I have a sedentary desk job, so I'm not doing anything rigorous. CC is not prohibited in my workplace, but there are a few snowflakes that would probably faint or call 911 at the sight of a gun.
AK103K,
As I alluded to previously, I much enjoy many of your posts and I apologize if at times I have responded to you rather arrogantly/harshly on this current topic. I also cannot deny the very real possibility that on top of everything else readers may say about me, my being a bit of a blow-hard “internet expert” may not be totally incorrect.
However, I nonetheless continue to feel compelled to point out that it has become apparent to me that the reason you and I carry a gun are NOT the SAME as you seem to contend.
When I carry surreptitiously, It is not because I need to “pass through quite a few checkpoints where they actually were looking for and asking if you had weapons or things of the such” or because I inherently think I’m “limited to a third line back up gun” as you previously stated.
These days, I occasionally have to carry surreptitiously because the consequences of not doing so will almost certainly result in terribly negative and immediate consequences to either my or somebody else's health and wellbeing.
These days, I am at times required to work with potentially homicidal and/or suicidal individuals in close proximity and absent important security barriers between myself and said individuals and/or their associates.
What YOU seem to be missing and/or fighting is that in many situations size really does matter and a magic holster just ain’t gonna cut it! It is foolish to think your crotch area isn’t going to be assessed.
I can provide for you numerous ways in which that can and is done including physical contact and metal detection devices applied in non-conventional approaches.
Ain’t a choice of what "you want to be carrying.” I prefer a good, reliable, semi-automatic rifle for combat situations; certainly not a “tiny ass little last ditch firearms” as you described.
But when something larger stands a very realistic chance of getting you and/or somebody else killed rather than saying your life or somebody else’s life, that’s what you use.
Sorry, your faith in magic holsters only tells me you have no real street experience.
Peace and love!
As I alluded to previously, I much enjoy many of your posts and I apologize if at times I have responded to you rather arrogantly/harshly on this current topic. I also cannot deny the very real possibility that on top of everything else readers may say about me, my being a bit of a blow-hard “internet expert” may not be totally incorrect.
However, I nonetheless continue to feel compelled to point out that it has become apparent to me that the reason you and I carry a gun are NOT the SAME as you seem to contend.
When I carry surreptitiously, It is not because I need to “pass through quite a few checkpoints where they actually were looking for and asking if you had weapons or things of the such” or because I inherently think I’m “limited to a third line back up gun” as you previously stated.
These days, I occasionally have to carry surreptitiously because the consequences of not doing so will almost certainly result in terribly negative and immediate consequences to either my or somebody else's health and wellbeing.
These days, I am at times required to work with potentially homicidal and/or suicidal individuals in close proximity and absent important security barriers between myself and said individuals and/or their associates.
What YOU seem to be missing and/or fighting is that in many situations size really does matter and a magic holster just ain’t gonna cut it! It is foolish to think your crotch area isn’t going to be assessed.
I can provide for you numerous ways in which that can and is done including physical contact and metal detection devices applied in non-conventional approaches.
.
Ain’t a choice of what "you want to be carrying.” I prefer a good, reliable, semi-automatic rifle for combat situations; certainly not a “tiny ass little last ditch firearms” as you described.
But when something larger stands a very realistic chance of getting you and/or somebody else killed rather than saying your life or somebody else’s life, that’s what you use.
Sorry, your faith in magic holsters only tells me you have no real street experience.
Peace and love!