Substantial DEEP concealment

I still have a couple of "undershirt" holsters, a Kramer Confidant, and a 5.11.

The Kreamer is the better of the two, as it allows you to wear a regular tee under it and it looks more natural. Its also a lot more comfortable.

The 5.11 is polyester and the white shirt is "bright", you look like you just got out of boot camp if you wear an open collar shirt. The polyester also makes you sweat, and is annoying.

The 5.11 "holsters", basically just spandex pockets, sucks too. The gun moves around in the pocket and is very annoying, and not really in a good position.

The Confidant has more holster like pouches that hold the gun in place, and actually has a velcro strap that you can use. There is very little movement with them.
 
Bart-Perhaps a smaller pistol would be more appropriate? Mine was used for a 638, and am not surprised at his results from a pistol sized like a Walther PP. That is not a pistol sized like a PPK, and with a little more patience the individual might have learned how to draw from the holster, as it is VERY different. Mine has the white straps.
 
Here are my thoughts from carrying in non-permissive environments. If I can wear a sweater, untucked polo, or suit coat, I can carry a full size pistol. If the concealment rig only works with .32, .380, or J-frames, I can just pocket carry and lose my strongside pocket.

My only interest is deep concealment is to carry something like a P365, Kimber Micro, or Glock 26. A compact pistol that actually works as a real gun across the distances I want to be competent at. J-frames are out the window because I am not competent with them and don’t want to invest the time.

So far, the only things that work at all are the SmartCarry or a pocket holster and certain types of slacks/khakis. Unfortunately, the slacks that work with a Glock 26 size pocket holster aren’t suitable professional attire. So despite a lot of issues I have with SmartCarry, it is still the one-eyed giant on the island of the blind.
 
AK103K said:
I have actual experience with the Null holster as well, and seem to have had a different experience than you.

The Null, and Galco are both minimalist shoulder holsters, and about as small as they get, but they both still do print, or show a tell with their straps, just like the bigger holsters, especially if you now what youre looking at.

In reality, most people are oblivious to things anyway, so it probably doesnt matter, but for those who are looking, shoulder holsters are still usually one of the easiest to spot.
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As someone who has primarily shoulder-carried in cool weather for years, I don't think anyone has ever noticed. The key factor is your cover garment. You won't be able to take it off, ever. Here is what I've learned:

Carry vertically. Having the gun in plane with your torso can minimize printing. Common concerns about shoulder carry include pointing the muzzle behind you and broad sweeps on the draw. This eliminates the former and allows you to minimize the latter. Practice drawing with an unloaded gun.

Choose height placement based on body type. Depending on your harness, you might be able to carry anywhere from right above the belt to way up in your armpit. Try different heights. Depending on your individual body type, different heights will print less or be easier to draw. I've found that high placement works for me. The main challenge is that your holster can start smelling like an armpit. Vodka is a good cleaner for this, especially on synthetics.

Now for the main thing: cover garments. Out and about around town, I've done well with just a leather jacket or canvas field coat. That's easy because at the store or wherever, you'll often keep those on. Winter jackets can be tougher depending on where you go, but none of this matters for most work environments. There, a suit, blazer, or even a thick cardigan sweater* can work; depending on your individual body type and choice of carry. Just remember, you'll be committed to it once you leave your house.

* A friend who knows jokingly calls this "Mr. Rogers Carry". This method is highly dependent on placement, body type, and choice of firearm. As with any of these, spend some time carrying around the house on weekends first. Have a family member watch for printing. The thinner or more sheer the material, the tougher it is. Learn what not to do, like crouching down to create a point behind you.
 
Cosmodragon hit a nice point I didn’t consider. I live in Texas. So about 9 or more months out of the year, a cover garment as thick as a cardigan sweater is problematic. Because you are going to sweat like a pig.

So, some of the issues I’m experiencing probably reflect geography.
 
I've had a pistol in my pocket, without holster every day for 46 years. No one has EVER noticed.
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Never noticed or never commented? I think that is an important distinction to make. In my experience, many Americans only see what they expect to see. You could tape a Glock to your forehead and they wouldn’t notice because they don’t expect to see it.

The one time I know I was made was when a furniture salesman who was a fellow gun guy saw the magazine baseplate hanging on my front jeans pocket and asked me about it. He was also a CHL. Even though he couldn’t spot the gun, he knew what the spare mag meant.

A lot of times in civilian carry, you can be noticed but still pass because nobody makes a big deal of it. If nobody makes a big deal of it, you start thinking you weren’t noticed. Probably like the guy who had his shirt snag on his SOB holstered 1911 at the Dallas Arboretum and didn’t know he was “noticed” until I said “Hey buddy, you’re showing” even though we were both in the midst of hundreds of people and the gun wasn’t concealed at all.

If you are in an NPE, you can’t afford to be noticed. If I am carrying around the neighborhood and someone notices a bulge in my shirt, who cares? What I am doing is legal and I’ll probably never see that schmuck again. If I am carrying where I work, even if it is legal, being noticed can have some nasty personal consequences.
 
I have been in healthcare administration for 35 years and healthcare facilities are generally a non-permissive environment. It is interesting how well a belly band conceals under a set of scrubs.
 
If he or she got caught carrying at work, they would definitely lose their job, and most likely go to jail. However, places like his or her work have been the targets of choice for mass shooters frequently.
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Lots of suggestions to carry everything from a mouse gun to full size. For myself, it's a Ruger LCP/DeSantis Nemesis in right front pocket.....EXCEPT!
By the OP comment "If he or she got caught carrying at work, they would definitely lose their job, and most likely go to jail. However, places like his or her work have been the targets of choice for mass shooters frequently." It is somewhat obvious the place of employment is a school! I always heed my CCW class instructors warning. Don't mess with the Feds! He was very clear about that. At the same time, he was very clear to point out that violating our state laws about places that don't allow carry would result in nothing more than a "ticket", like a traffic ticket, if anything. His advice to that, "just don't be stupid about it".
 
I've had several jobs where I'm not allowed to carry but I am fully able.
It's always easiest when the uniform doesn't require you to tuck in your shirt. Like right now. It's up in the air, I opt not to tuck and all is well. HK P30L or Glock 17.

Now if I have to tuck in my shirt, I've carried a USP 9 Compact with an UltiClip on a minimalist holster. The UltiClip clips onto the pants themselves and not the belt, so it'd very difficult to see it hiding behind the belt. A Glock 26 and 36 have been carried this way as well as my P30L a couple of times has been tested, but felt too ballsy to try out.

Ankle carry is up next for me. As it allows me to carry my Glock 36 that way. But I have to use a more liberal pair of slacks that I'm not too fond of on certain days.

Pocket would be next. I'd have to buy a J-Frame because I no longer have my Smith and Wesson 360PD.

Last would be off body carry in my backpack. That's where I get to "let me look for another job" territory".
 
Personally, I wouldn't screw around with awkward things like Life Card and would only choose a North American Arms Mini Revolver if it was in the Sidewinder (swing-out cylinder) configuration chambered in .22WMR.

I own a Ruger LCP, which serves as my all-weather EDC pistol because I can conceal it in any attire including a light pair of cotton shorts, so it ought to be easily concealable in just about any workplace attire short of a strip club, and unlike certain smaller options, it's got a decade long track record for reliability, holds up to 8 rounds, and is chambered in a centerfire cartridge which is generally considered to be adequate for self-defense.

If you don't like Ruger, then check out the Kel-Tec P3AT, which was basically the inspiration for the LCP, or otherwise check out one of the many other fine lightweight .380 Pocket Pistols which have come out since and proven themselves reliable.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm sure .22WMR, .32 ACP, or heck, even .22LR/.25 ACP could get the job done in a pinch, but personally I don't see any advantage in choosing any of those when modern .380 Pocket Pistols can be made as small/lightweight as they are. So unless you absolutely cannot manage the recoil of a .380 Pocket Pistol, (which I don't blame you if you can't, as they are quite snappy, and obviously won't pair well with injured/arthritic hands) I would strongly suggest a .380 Pocket Pistol over a Derringer, Mini Revolver, or smaller caliber Pocket Pistol.
 
Definitely following, my best luck has been (so far) a bodyguard 380 in a talon wallet holster, conceals well and a NAA sidewinder in the front pocket. I recently purchased a Urban Carry and it is ok so far, for the sig 365. I’m hoping it breaks in a bit more so it doesn’t ‘print’ as much. Works great with blue jeans but so so in khakis. I didn’t even know about smartcarry but wish I had to compare the two.


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> pretty sure a 'few' teachers CCW with an ankle holster with
> trousers long enough so no printing when they sit down

Net.expurts like to hate on ankle carry, but it's 100% better than no carry, concealment is about as "deep" as you can get without an overcoat, and it's a comfortable, at least if you use a holster with a calf strap.

No, you're not going to win any quick-draw contests with an ankle rig. You have to use something else for that.

I've been carrying a backup gun in an ankle holster for seven years now; no problems.
 
if your back pockets are big enough and your gun is small enough, "wallet" type holsters hide guns well, and no one in the business world will ask about your two wallets without running the risk of being asked why are they looking at your ass.
 
If you want substantial deep concealment, be prepared to pay substantially for it. Something like the P32 is probably the cheapest option in a decent caliber, but an LCP in .380 is more powerful, but weighs more too.

If you want max ammo capacity, it's hard to beat the Beretta 950 with 8+1 of .25. Can't say .25 is powerful, but 9 rounds in a matter of seconds is going to hurt.

For revolvers, you're stuck with a .38 in a super lightweight snub, either a 12 oz Charter, a 13.5oz LCR in .38, or some S&W alloy J frame, which will cost a lot.

I can't say which is best, but I can say any gun is better than no gun and the NAA has been the smallest, lightest, and highest quality option for a long time now to have a gun.
 
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