Stupid Argument
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Spats McGee
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jason_iowa said:
We should ban Assault Sporks. They make everyone a victim.AZAK said:
Would that be a "tine ban"? Limit the number of tines? Or the length?
Then there would be "pre-ban" sporks and in all probability a rush on sporks.
Prices would soar, folks would be booking flights anywhere just as long as there was a meal served on the flight. (What was the TSA thinking, allowing airlines to provide sporks on planes?)
You realize that a spork is a spoon with bayonets afixed?
I have enough medical problems hand to had is not going to happen.
And that has nothing to do with the use of smaller calibers vs. larger.
The idea is to stop someone. NOW.
A .22 RF is lethal.
It may not be quickly lethal, or very reliable at stopping things quickly, but it can do the job under limited circumstances (like you manage a head shot and get penetration).
One of the most important things a person will ever learn is critical thinking and analytical skills, to sift through the BS of daily life. There are hundreds of books available that detail how to analyze arguments, and recognize the exact tools that are being used to lie to you. if you go through these threads, you're going to find that a lot of them are just personal opinion and sort of pointless arguments over very small points. As you go through them, since some of them are really impossible to prove, you'll see a lot of invalid arguments used to convince people that they are wrong.
Examples:
appeal to the masses
"millions of soldiers/cops/civilians around the world carry (9mm/5.56..45/.38 special/7.62) so it's best"
(being preferred by the masses also makes mcdonalds better than burger king. Quite an accomplishment)
Appeal to authority
"jack o connor killed every animal on the planet with a .270. it's the best gun"
( successful individual use proves nothing beyond the individual success.)
Ad hominem (attack the messenger)
"so, you say that my .25 ACP isn't effective? What is your degree in, liberal arts with a minor in poloitics? You're an idiot!"
(destroy the credibility of the opponent to destroy the credibility of the argument)
Straw man attack (build up a case that's utterly ridiculous, then knock it down.)
"using buckshot for defense is stupid. If you miss, you might shoot right through a 300 year old stained glass window into the house of god, and put a single ball of 00 right through the foreheads of half of the choir! and kill 9 god fearing children, then be lynched by the crowd!"
(exaggerated flaws in opponent's ideas.)
There are a dozen or so main battle tactics of deception like this. You see them every day, hundreds of times.
The debate is really over "stopping power" vs. "killing power". the argument in favor of more powerful calibers is that they will stop an assault by an assailant high on drugs or with his nervous system otherwise dulled faster than a smaller caliber. Yes we all know shot placement is all important but in the stress of combat that is easier said than done. Conversely if one practices Charlie Askins' version of the belly gun-"you place it against your enemy's belly and pull the trigger"-power and accuracy aren't quite as critical.
It's not a stupid argument, rather like debating hunting calibers or revolver vs. semiauto it can be quite interesting and though provoking provided people remain calm and rational and polite.
Jeff Cooper's Rules for Gunfighting
First Rule-Have a gun.
Elmer Keith responding to a reader's inquiry about what he considered a "mouse gun"-"it sur beats your fists".
It's not a stupid argument, rather like debating hunting calibers or revolver vs. semiauto it can be quite interesting and though provoking provided people remain calm and rational and polite.
Jeff Cooper's Rules for Gunfighting
First Rule-Have a gun.
Elmer Keith responding to a reader's inquiry about what he considered a "mouse gun"-"it sur beats your fists".
I wish everyone read and considered that. Every step you take, every second you live through, you are under a 1-1000,000,000 chance of dying a violent death. Every second "fate" is rolling your dice for you. No matter what weapon you carry or don't carry, it may be the wrong one. You may encounter a tiger in the middle of ohio with your .25, or a rabid box turtle with your .45. you may meet a thug with full body armor and automatic weapons, and wish that you'd carried your barrett.
If you choose to leave your .45 longslide at home and carry a mouse gun, you have your reasons, you've thought about it, and you've placed your money on the table.
It's not up to me to call you a moron. It's your life. You may win, you may lose, but you took a thoughtful approach, and took your chances.
You're smart, I respect that, and your decision.
Would you let me shoot you with my red ryder if I gave you a dollar? I like shooting people with BB guns.
I tried dispatching a wounded squirrel in my back yard once with a red ryder. I realized after a few shots that the things were just bouncing off of his head. how'd I figure it out? One actually ricocheted into my face.
poor thing. Laying there injured, and someone was clubbing it on the head. I felt really bad.
Only if you'd let me take the second shot with my 22.
I really don't wanna get shot by anything. When I was a kid, I got hit a few times with BBs. It stung like the dickens. Some posters here seem to think that would make it obvious to me that a BB gun is a good choice for a self defense weapon. And that leads me to think that some posters don't have all that much experience with either firearms or BB guns.
I know a guy who shot himself with a .22, just so he'd know what it felt like to be shot. he used a rifle, stretched the web of his thumb over the muzzle, and pulled the trigger.
so he said.
That should have pretty well crippled his hand forever by destroying a lot of muscle and connective tissue by the muzzle blast.
He was, however, a lifetime resident of the western slope of mount bell curve. I would not be surprised if he did, but neither do I think he was beyond making up something that stupid.
so he said.
That should have pretty well crippled his hand forever by destroying a lot of muscle and connective tissue by the muzzle blast.
He was, however, a lifetime resident of the western slope of mount bell curve. I would not be surprised if he did, but neither do I think he was beyond making up something that stupid.
montelores
New member
You want to talk about dangerous?
The thought occurred to me the other day that every day on this planet, cars, buses, and trucks pass each other within 4 or 5 feet at closure rates in excess of 100 MPH millions of times (possibly 100s of millions of times), and how often do these events result in head-on collisions?
By the way, John Hinckley carried out his attempted assassination with a .22, and look at how many people he hurt.
Monty
The thought occurred to me the other day that every day on this planet, cars, buses, and trucks pass each other within 4 or 5 feet at closure rates in excess of 100 MPH millions of times (possibly 100s of millions of times), and how often do these events result in head-on collisions?
By the way, John Hinckley carried out his attempted assassination with a .22, and look at how many people he hurt.
Monty
Oooh, but that proves that the .22 is harmless, because he didn't kill anyone, doesn't it?
Of course life is dangerous in other ways. That's why the smart ones also use their seat belts, and have automobile insurance, lock their doors at night, and make their wife and children taste everything that is on their plate to see if they die, before they eat it.
Of course life is dangerous in other ways. That's why the smart ones also use their seat belts, and have automobile insurance, lock their doors at night, and make their wife and children taste everything that is on their plate to see if they die, before they eat it.
SwampYankee
New member
I simply cannot understand why people get so particularly aggressive about other people carrying smaller calibers than them. What is it to you? Why do you care? Why do you have to justify the fact that you slap a full size 1911 in your belt and others do not? Are you a bigger man for it? Is it some type of subconscious effort to exaggerate those things that the good Lord did NOT bless you with?
When I can, I carry an SR40c or a Speed Six with very hot .38 Special +p+. If I lived in a free state, I would carry them 24/7. But I don't live in a free state. Most of the time the SR40c is impractical so when I can carry, I carry a Kahr p380 in my back pocket. I am confident that I can put all 7 rounds into a 3 inch circle at 10 yards. That says nothing for my ability to do it under stress but if I can't do it with the ridiculously soft shooting p380, I can't do it with a .40.
Seriously. Proponents of CCW are generally libertarians or those of that ilk and don't believe forcing their beliefs on others (or they should not, lest they be labelled hypocrites). They believe in freedom of personal choice. Why don't you?
Why do you care that I carry a .380? How does it hurt you?
When I can, I carry an SR40c or a Speed Six with very hot .38 Special +p+. If I lived in a free state, I would carry them 24/7. But I don't live in a free state. Most of the time the SR40c is impractical so when I can carry, I carry a Kahr p380 in my back pocket. I am confident that I can put all 7 rounds into a 3 inch circle at 10 yards. That says nothing for my ability to do it under stress but if I can't do it with the ridiculously soft shooting p380, I can't do it with a .40.
Seriously. Proponents of CCW are generally libertarians or those of that ilk and don't believe forcing their beliefs on others (or they should not, lest they be labelled hypocrites). They believe in freedom of personal choice. Why don't you?
Why do you care that I carry a .380? How does it hurt you?
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