Students bring Confederate flag to school, can't attend graduation.

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applesanity

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Flag flap: confederate flag controversy keeps students from attending commencement

They say they're just "good ol' boys" who, like the song goes, were "never meaning no harm." But three Bloomington Kennedy seniors were not allowed to attend their commencement Wednesday night after bringing a Confederate flag to school on Tuesday.

"We're all big fans of the Dukes of Hazard," said Dan Fredin, who was suspended, along with Joe Snyder and Justin Thompson. "It's just us showing we have our own style and we aren't going to conform to whatever anyone else thinks."

School officials say at least one of the students waved and carried the flag in the parking lot.

The boys argue they never took the flags off their trucks, but they admit they brought them to the school.

Officials asked the students to remove the flags. Eventually, all three students were suspended for three days -- which, in this case, included graduation.

Officials say a Student Code of Conduct prohibits behavior that may provoke or offend other students.

"We are very clear that the Confederate flag is a symbol of hatred, bigotry and racism," said Rick Kaufman, the Executive Director of Community Relations at Bloomington Kennedy High School.

"It's truly unfortunate that the bad decision they made will prevent them from walking across the stage in graduation," Kaufman said adding that the school has dealt with students bringing confederate flags to school before.

But the students argue the punishment doesn't fit the crime. They say they show the flag as a sign of rebellion, not racism.

"The confederate army was in rebellion to the U.S. Army who were about money and power," Fredin said. "We never took it as racial or anything like that."

Meantime, the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota said the students would likely not have a case in court.

"If the authorities can make the claim that the presence of the flag can reasonably disrupt the educational process than they can censor it," said Charles Samuelson with the ACLU of Minnesota.
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The three students will still receive their diplomas. Already they have plans for next year, which for two of them, includes serving in the U.S. military.
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Wow, even the ACLU is on their side. Then again, students never really had rights. The ACLU, in that bolded quote, makes a good point. However, first it's the gang bandanas, then it's the Confederate flags, next it'll be the headscarves of Muslim girls (already banned in France).

If an ignorant person steps into a Buddhist temple, the first thing he might notice is all the swastikas everywhere. What about Buddhist students wearing swastika necklaces? The presence of a Swastika might upset some Jew, or Gypsy, or homosexual, or anyone not blond and blue-eyed.

Lots of precedent shows that sometimes it's reasonable to place such restrictions on students/minors. I'm just not too cool with it.

At least there are still some people being taught the *real* Civil war.
 
Wow we all had rebel flag licence plates and flags on the seats winshield and tailgates when i went to school and no one cared, not even the people you would expect to get mad.
 
Read between the lines and you will clearly see this is not the first time a Confederate Flag was brought to this school. There is a policy on it and as much as the legitimate history buffs out there have a point the Stars and Bars is seen as a racial insult by many, and also USED as one often enough to justify the interpretation of it as such. It is all in the context it is flown in.

Generally flying it in the parking lot of a mixed race high school where it has already been an issue of divisiveness (and already addressed) makes me wonder about their motives. The school should have told them to immediately remove it. It doesn't sound like they did so they suffer the penalty. The next morons will hopefully learn from the lesson.
 
More political correctness gone amuck. We want freedom of speech unless it offends certain classes??
 
issue of divisiveness
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I always get a laugh when I see the above phrase because almost any item,
word, can be used or seen as divisive and my goodness we can't have that
in modern America where we all get along so well.:barf:
 
More political correctness gone amuck. We want freedom of speech unless it offends certain classes??
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1. Schools are NOT "the real world." To function many rights are curtailed.

2. Students are minors and as such they do not have full rights, nor full responsibilities. This is a time for them to learn about rights and their responsibilities without suffering the full penalty that an adult would.
 
I always get a laugh when I see the above phrase because almost any item,
word, can be used or seen as divisive and my goodness we can't have that
in modern America where we all get along so well.
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They are on controlled property, the school, and do not have the right to do as they please there. If they want to drive around with the flag outside the school they should be allowed to.

Should they be allowed to wear white hoods in the school? Fly the Nazi flag? This is not one person who is insulted by a comment or picture. This is an image that is seen as and USED AS a form of racial hatred. Not all use it as such but enough that its connection with such groups should be understood. As such it can reasonably be believed to cause a problem in the school. If they wish to fly it on their lawn or outside the school they should feel free to do so but when flying it on property other than their own they may have a problem.
 
I heard on this on the news this morning and they said that the flags can be taken as "hate speech."

To me, that flag was adopted by the South and the people who lived there. It does not represent slavery nor was the civil war fought solely because of it.
 
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This is an image that is seen as and USED AS a form of racial hatred.
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forgot this part...'by others'.

Absent the kids doing something overtly racial or discriminatory, I think banning images, objects, are all bad ideas.

Does the Confederate Flag bring up bad feelings in some regarding racism...of course it does, just as other images or things would bring up bad connotations to others.

You don't see us banning guns (yet) because people who have been the victims of crime think guns are evil because of the way it was used against them.

I do think you may have good point on the private property side of things.

These kids, seems to me, knowingly did this to see what would happen. They just have to face the consequeneces of it.
 
To me, that flag was adopted by the South and the people who lived there. It does not represent slavery nor was the civil war fought solely on because of it.
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True, and it was also adopted by some real nasty hate groups and was the flag flown by the side in the war which was actively continuing slavery.

The flag has a place in history and certainly with those who value history and understand its purpose. It has been used by others enough times for hatred that it has become indelibly tied to such groups.

If a person of German ancestry has a German WWII flag from their grand or great grand father that does not make them a Nazi and having it in their home or property for its historical context should be acceptable. Those who would take issue with it have no grounds. Now flying that flag from the top of your car as you drive through the Jewish neighborhoods of NYC is something else, but still legal so long as their is not a law about flying any flag. You will not be able to fly it though from a car in the lot of a school in that neighborhood and with good reason.

Listen Southerners, I know you are not all KKK members and I know many of you are proud of your ancestors, with good reason. Clearly you do not INTEND the flag to be a racial insult but you need to open your eyes at some point and realize it IS one. It is not an insult to s couple zealots but to the majority of a significant racial group and it is so in part because WHITE PEOPLE have flown it at KKK and Nazi rallies while actively persecuting blacks. If you have a problem with that then take it up with the cretins who have stolen your flag for their purposes, not those persecuted by those who adopted it.
 
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True, and it was also adopted by some real nasty hate groups and was the flag flown by the side in the war which was actively continuing slavery.

The flag has a place in history and certainly with those who value history and understand its purpose. It has been used by others enough times for hatred that it has become indelibly tied to such groups.
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And that's the sticking point. The flag is clearly an icon of hate groups but it is also a part of US history. To me the point is that should we allow the idiot minority in this country to turn it into something evil that should be shunned and is punishable if you display it?

I don't know what the answer is but clearly there are strong thoughts on both sides of the issues Me, I don't/won't display it, but I have a problem telling others they can't.
 
and was the flag flown by the side in the war which was actively continuing slavery
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Slaver was actively continued in Missouri and Maryland, both of which are northern states. Emancipation Proclamation, what? Oh wait, it only banned slavery in the South.

Like Kanye West once said, where's the 40 acres and mule? Never happened; the Civil War was not about a bunch of enlightened people liberating slaves and patting themselves in the back. It was about money and power. Money and power is the reason behind all wars, for all of history.

Back to the topic sort of...

Now flying that [nazi] flag from the top of your car as you drive through the Jewish neighborhoods of NYC is something else
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Actually, when I was living in NYC, I saw a case of that happening. All the Jews (it was Friday night, everyone was walking instead of using the subway or driving... yeah it's *THAT* Jewish) on the street were like, "pfft, whatever, you dumb rednecks." Realizing there wasn't gonna be outrage or shock value, the idiots drove off.

You won't find Skokie, IL in New York.

That's what's so great about NYC. I don't know how it's come to be, or maybe because the city is so diverse, but New Yorkers have thick skins. You launch a series of racial epithets in a crowded subway car and people will just laugh at you, then yell a bunch of racist stuff back. You'll find out that these New Yorkers can can out-racism your own racism; you'll blush. You'll be ordered to shut the &*^% up or else. It's in your best interests to comply.

The New York approach would fix so much in this country. Don't get so easily offended. If you do become offended, then learn to deal with like a real man/woman, instead of appealing to the authorities.

Listen Southerners, I know you are not all KKK members
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Not all Arabs are Terrorists.

Clearly you do not INTEND the flag to be a racial insult but you need to open your eyes at some point and realize it IS one.
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Just for that, tomorrow, I'm gonna wear my swastika necklace to work.

Back to the real topic...

I think if the whole school got taught that the Civil War was a struggle for money and power, and that the status of slavery was an afterthought brought up by a miniscule abolutionist movement, and that Lincoln couldn't care less one way or the other about slavery (preserving the Union was his desire), and to see what effects Reconstruction had on the South - to this day - then maybe a Confederate flag won't be so taboo. Then the students can learn some common sense. A bunch of giddy seniors about to graduate, driving a a pickup with Confederate flags, is not the same a bunch of people wearing white robes and pointy white hoods and carrying flaming torches and nooses.

I'm known for playing the race card on TFL. The race cards aren't coming out this time.

Turning the tables... "It's a symbol for Buddhism! How dare you discriminate against my religion!
 
However, first it's the gang bandanas, then it's the Confederate flags, next it'll be the headscarves of Muslim girls (already banned in France).
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....?
I personally beleive there is a HUGE difference between gang bandanas, confederate flags and headscarves, first both the flag and bandana are items that can and DO cause problems with violence such as slavery, and gang violence.....and Headscarves. A Head scarve is a part of someones religion.

As for the part where the boys said "We were just trying not to conform to what everyone else has done" Give me a break. If I brought a Nazi flag to school and argued that it was a Swastica symbolizing hinduism from the neolithic ages. Big diference between trying to be unique, and routing for what the confederacy stood for....fighting the north over slavery and everything southern industrialization stood for.
 
To me the point is that should we allow the idiot minority in this country to turn it into something evil that should be shunned and is punishable if you display it?
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That's just it, to privately display it or do so on public property as a private citizen should be allowed. Even a KKK member should be able to proudly paint it and the KKK emblem on his car and drive up and down the street. Should a gov't display it knowing that it is seen by many of its citizens as a slur against them? Depends on the setting. I think flying it from a state capital is over the line but having it represented as a historical flag of the state must be understood and used as an opportunity to educate. Gov't though is all about compromise (something ALL the Founding Fathers knew!).

The problem here though was it was at a high school. Like it or not the rules regarding the COTUS and schools have been pounded out in court before. Schools are considered a special situation where the responsibilities of the state with regards to the welfare of those in their care (who do not have the rights of adults yet) take precedence. As such banning images which can clearly be seen to incite hatred, and I am sorry but that flag does, has been deemed acceptable. This was an existing rule that was wantonly broken.
 
However, first it's the gang bandanas, then it's the Confederate flags, next it'll be the headscarves of Muslim girls (already banned in France).
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There is also an existing ban on ALL OPENLY RELIGIOUS ICONOGRAPHY being worn by students in the French school system. You cannot find a religion out there which has not persecuted another group at some time. The Palestinian Muslim sees the Star of David as a hate symbol and on and on. France said, in a strange moment of sanity, "Listen everybody, you are here to LEARN. Take your religion and leave it at home. This is a secular nation and if you want to be a part of it you must abide by its rules. Worship elsewhere. Having everybody dress and act in school in ways to only separate them from each other is NOT the way to integrate people into French society."

Sorry but I am all for anything that gets women away from walking the streets in bruqas and otherwise dividing a nation by religious lines.
 
Bong Hits For Jesus

was the banner a student in Juneau Alaska held during a parade. The student was there during a school activity. After being suspended by the school board the case went to the USSC. The court ruled in favor of the school. I doubt the stars and bars will get different treatment when its tied to a school incident like this one.
 
Regardless of what the ACLU says their chances are I hope the students sue the school district & win.Im quite sure that 3 lesbian students flaunting a rainbow flag would have been wholeheartedly embraced by the same school personel who were horrified at the sight of a flag that is part of this nations history.
 
3 lesbian students flaunting a rainbow flag
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How many lesbian committed lynchings and beatings of heteros have there been?

I also wouldn't bet on your estimated outcome. Anything causing a disruption would most likely have been squashed.
 
Sorry but I am all for anything that gets women away from walking the streets in bruqas
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Not exactly proof of the whole, but all the headscarf wearing women I've ever talked to tell me that they do it not because daddy or the Iman says so; it's part of the heritage. Some have said that it saves them the trouble of perming and girly-ing their hair up every morning.

On another note, a Burqa is not a headscarf. A Burqa is that thing that covers all of you, save for two little peep holes for your eyes.

and otherwise dividing a nation by religious lines.
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And I quote,

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
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Yes, you can exercise your religion. The problem is, particularly of late with Muslims, they have no desire to integrate, do everything possible to keep themselves separate, and are often violently opposed to obeying the laws of the lands they have chosen to inhabit. The whole God before Country thing...

Bottom line on the head scarf thing is it is a set rule for ALL students in the French schools. Deal with it. If you can prove to god is going to smite you for not wearing a head scarf, yamaka (can't spell...) or other openly religious icon I am willing to bet France will make an exception. Until then they are trying to ensure proper integration of new cultures into the existing French culture. Perhaps you have noticed the fires as Muslim students burn cars each summer...

This is only within SCHOOL.
 
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