Some people just shouldn't be allowed to handle a weapon

Without naming names (yes, I know ) some very famous instructors have left ammo in rifles, left the gun and then had somebody make a boom!
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I know very few instructors who have not had serious ND's.
 
jhenry

Whenever I sweep the room at the gunshop I stick my finger in the end of the barrel. That way if it goes off the barrel just gets a big bulge in it and no one gets hurt.
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936full-support-your-local-sheriff!-poster.jpg

:D
 
SOFs, NDs/ADs, deaths....

To add a few points about spec operations troops having ADs & training deaths, I read that in the elite units(CAG, DevGru/SEAL-06, ParaRescue, ISA, etc), there are at least 1 training related death incidents every year. :(
As stated, many spec ops units use live rounds & must learn to shoot in CQB(close quarters). This doesn't include smoke, fog, rain, sea spray, etc.

ClydeFrog
 
The question is, are they saying they have a higher accident rate per capita, or per round fired?

If a unit fires an average of 20,000 rounds per soldier per year, the accident rate for that unit will probably be higher, per capita, than for a less well trained unit where soldiers average 200 rounds per year.

That doesn't even take into account live fire exercises, or higher numbers of actual combat sorties (where things have more chances to go wrong).

So, I'd be curious to see what the stats like when conditions and round counts are taken into consideration.
 
I've heard a lot about this, and since I live about 45 minutes from where it happened, I'm sure some of it is true, but I'm unable as of yet to figure out what parts are fact, and which are made up.

The one I heard that makes the most sense to me is that it happened before the class started and the gun belonged to the Husband.

But I've heard other accounts that are just as possible, and haven't been able to confirm any of them.

So it might be the Instructor just failed to check the guns.
 
well... things that make you go hmm... IF I was married and IF I was trying to kill my husband... I'd take a bullet in the hand and wait for the instructor to leave the room too... just saying...
 
OK - we all know the 4 rules. Say them to yourself, yet again.
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Honestly, and I am going to get reamed for this, but I don't know the four official rules, THOUGH I am supremely confident that I practice/use them.

I have been shooting for 16 years and generally go with "Don't point a gun, whether its loaded or unloaded, at anything you aren't are ok with killing/destroying." and "The day you get comfortable, is the day you get careless."

So, what are the exact official 4 rules? and Whom are they set by? NRA?

(See isn't it better letting you fellas learn me, rather then just looking it up and saving myself the embarrassment).:D
 
People make mistakes all the time, and when it comes to gun rights, people want to blow it up and use this to take away someones right to own guns and carry. People drive and text all the time, accidents happen from that too, but we don't want to drive it into some political thing and remove someones rights.
 
So, what are the exact official 4 rules? and Whom are they set by? NRA?
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The Four Rules are attributed to Jeff Cooper and taught pretty universally, including by NRA-endorsed instructors.

Although some people refer to them as "Rule 1," "Rule 2," etc., the order doesn't really matter.

1 - Treat every gun as if it is loaded.
2 - Never let the muzzle point at anything that you don't want to see destroyed.
3 - Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.
4 - Be certain of your target and everything around and behind it.

As you think about the rules and their application, you see a built-in redundancy that keeps people safe.
 
Being bored grading papers, I have complied the rules including new ones that we should live by.

1 - Treat every gun as if it is loaded.
2 - Never let the muzzle point at anything that you don't want to see destroyed.
3 - Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.
4 - Be certain of your target and everything around and behind it.
5. Thou shalt not put any gun before the 1911
6. Thou shalt not say bad things about the Glock
7. Thou shalt not covet thy friend’s new gun
8. Thou will shoot on the Sabbath if there is a good match
9. Thou shall shoot to stop and not to kill as a purpose
10. Thou shall not commit adultery as other folks have guns too!
11. Thou shall not bear false pretenses that you were a SEAL
12. Thou shall ask for your lawyer rather than giving false witness to the officers arresting you.
13. Thou shall not buy a Judge lest ye be Judged

I apologize but 66 essays make you nuts.
 
There are a number of ways the Four Rules have been stated. Here's how they're put at Gunsite (founded by Jeff Cooper):

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Gunsite is a "hot range", and actually loaded guns are customarily worn on the ranges and throughout the grounds.

So --

  • If you hand me a gun, don't bother telling me it's not loaded. Because I follow Rule One, I won't believe you and will personally verify/clear the gun.

  • If I criticize you for pointing a gun at me, my spouse, my cat, or anyone/anything else I value, don't bother trying to excuse yourself by telling me that it's not loaded.

  • If your gun fires when you didn't intend it to, don't bother trying to explain yourself by saying anything like, "I didn't think it was loaded." You should have understood that under Rule One since it is a gun it is loaded, and you should have conducted yourself accordingly.

  • And wherever you are, if your gun is in your hand, you jolly well need to find a safe direction for your muzzle until you've actually got something to shoot at, and you're about to be shooting at it.

  • And if you're not actually shooting, your finger needs to be off the trigger, whether you're using your sights or not.

  • And you need to know your target and what's behind it even in a self defense situation. No one is going to pat you on the back and tell you what a splendid fellow you are for wasting poor old Mrs. Smith when trying to avoid getting mugged yourself. (If you ever have a chance to train with Louis Awerbuck, he will have you engaging targets with "non-combatants" in front of behind the "BG" target. It will be up to you to move or place your shots (or in his moving target class, time your shot) to avoid hitting a non-combatant.)

And let's see what Jeff Cooper had to say about Rule One:

  • Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 6 (1998), No. 2, pg. 8.
    ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
    The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.
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  • Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, vol.9 (2001), No. 6, pg. 29:
    ...We think that "treat all guns as if they were loaded" implies with the "as if" qualification a dangerous choice of assumptions...
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  • Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, vol.11 (2003), No. 13, pg. 64:
    ...A major point of issue is Rule 1, "All guns are always loaded." There are people who insist that we cannot use this because it is not precisely true. Some guns are sometimes unloaded. These folks maintain that the rule should read that one should always treat all guns as if they were loaded. The trouble here is the "as if," which leads to the notion that the instrument at hand may actually not be loaded....
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BTW, Glenn,

I'm going to suggest to the group I teach with that we incorporate your rules 5 - 13 in our lessons ------- with your permission, of course.
 
i too am unaware of what exactly happened but i know what did not happen.
as a child i learned the four basic rules for handling a gun.
it was drilled in to my head waaaaay before i was alowed to handle live ammo and a gun.
that is what did not happened!!!!!

when i was a child a gun was one of the tools we used to feed our familys.
of cource my papaw also had nice pretty guns that were look not touch but same as the tools in the toolbox that held the needs to keep our automobiles on the road they alone would not take care of the cars. KNOWLEDGE was a necessity!!!
im not sure what area of the country this happened but im sure it was in one of them areas where having a firearm is a gun not a tool!!!
 
1 - Treat every gun as if it is loaded.
2 - Never let the muzzle point at anything that you don't want to see destroyed.
3 - Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.
4 - Be certain of your target and everything around and behind it.
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Hey that Cooper fella must have had some common sense. Or is it rare sense nowadays?

Thanks Gator and Meyer:)
 
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