Some people just shouldn't be allowed to handle a weapon
- Thread starter Doyle
- Start date
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Which is why the First Rule is, "All guns are always loaded." "It wasn't loaded" or "I didn't think it was loaded" is never an appropriate answer.cookie5 said:
I don't get why there would have been any ammo in the room either. That makes no sense. New shooters, you wouldn't load the magazines unless you're on the range and the magazines don't go in the gun unless you're on the line. I think there was a short coming on the instructor not making sure each gun was clear. I almost wonder if they weren't supposed be handling any guns yet and when the instructor left the room, show and tell began. 
Untrained adults, gun ranges: gun shops...
The member post about untrained adults brings up a good point.
It's a smart idea to be alert & aware of range shooters or people handling firearms who may be careless/high-risk.
I try to shoot at indoor ranges near me during the off hours or slow periods to avoid the nutjobs and gun owners who want to show off/play around.
A local rental place just had another gun suicide about 3 weeks ago.
I'd suggest picking up on the unsafe behaviors of untrained adults, like having the index finger on the trigger, waving guns around, improper grips or stances, putting their hands or fingers on the muzzle(I've seen that a few times), shooters who rapid fire or avoid aiming at targets, not paying attention to other lanes or gun owners(this is just crass & rude but I've seen it too).
Range masters or safety officers should monitor these types of untrained shooters and remove them if needed but all gun owners need to follow basic safety regulations.
ClydeFrog
The member post about untrained adults brings up a good point.
It's a smart idea to be alert & aware of range shooters or people handling firearms who may be careless/high-risk.
I try to shoot at indoor ranges near me during the off hours or slow periods to avoid the nutjobs and gun owners who want to show off/play around.
A local rental place just had another gun suicide about 3 weeks ago.
I'd suggest picking up on the unsafe behaviors of untrained adults, like having the index finger on the trigger, waving guns around, improper grips or stances, putting their hands or fingers on the muzzle(I've seen that a few times), shooters who rapid fire or avoid aiming at targets, not paying attention to other lanes or gun owners(this is just crass & rude but I've seen it too).
Range masters or safety officers should monitor these types of untrained shooters and remove them if needed but all gun owners need to follow basic safety regulations.
ClydeFrog
PADefenseTrainer
New member
That was my first question too.
The first thing we do in a training class is to announce and check that there is NO live ammunition in the class room.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Without naming names (yes, I know 
) some very famous instructors have left ammo in rifles, left the gun and then had somebody make a boom!
With the number of folks, all stupid things will happen.
) some very famous instructors have left ammo in rifles, left the gun and then had somebody make a boom!With the number of folks, all stupid things will happen.
In support of Glen's comments. An Army study from some years ago found that the units/soldiers with the highest number of accidental gunshot wounds were the Special Operations soldiers. They also happen to be the most highly trained and proficient soldiers.
Or as the old Country Philosopher said "there an int no cure for a terminal case of the dumb ares".
Or as the old Country Philosopher said "there an int no cure for a terminal case of the dumb ares".
Possible explanations for this:
1. They are probably also the ones with the most range time (shear volumn of ammo fired would give more chances of accidents).
2. They are far more likely to be doing live-fire excercies under non-range scenarios (i.e. hostage rescue, close quarters drills, etc. - all contributing to chances for ADs and NDs).
I know, this may not go over to well, BUT.
Seems like we're always very quick to jump on people who have gun accidents.
Yes, some are so stupid as to defy logic and deserve criticism. But when you mix millions of guns and millions of people who, even if they were all reasonably intelligent, you still would have accidents. Same with anything else with inherent dangers.
Someone just like us can have a gun accident. And we do. Cops, Federal officers, citizens, hunters, military.
I wouldn't call Bill Jordan a bozo, but a "stupid" incident killed a colleague and ended his career as a gun writer. He didn't obey rule 1, 3, and 4. I might suggest that each and every one of us has violated the rules more than once.
And there's no excuse for violating the rules.
There's no excuse for a gun accident, and they happen, and there's no excuse and they happen.
This fellow was at least in a gun safety course. Personally I know many good instructors who would have made gun handling protocol quite clear to his students while he was in or out of the room. Don't know what happened in this case as to the student violating instructions or not been properly instructed in the first place.
Instructor: "I was out of the room" translation, "it wasn't my fault".
Student: "I did something stupid" translation "I accept responsibility".
Instructors have responsibilities, also.
I suspect that if he takes the course again, he'll be the safest student in the class.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Seems like we're always very quick to jump on people who have gun accidents.
Yes, some are so stupid as to defy logic and deserve criticism. But when you mix millions of guns and millions of people who, even if they were all reasonably intelligent, you still would have accidents. Same with anything else with inherent dangers.
Someone just like us can have a gun accident. And we do. Cops, Federal officers, citizens, hunters, military.
I wouldn't call Bill Jordan a bozo, but a "stupid" incident killed a colleague and ended his career as a gun writer. He didn't obey rule 1, 3, and 4. I might suggest that each and every one of us has violated the rules more than once.
And there's no excuse for violating the rules.
There's no excuse for a gun accident, and they happen, and there's no excuse and they happen.
This fellow was at least in a gun safety course. Personally I know many good instructors who would have made gun handling protocol quite clear to his students while he was in or out of the room. Don't know what happened in this case as to the student violating instructions or not been properly instructed in the first place.
Instructor: "I was out of the room" translation, "it wasn't my fault".
Student: "I did something stupid" translation "I accept responsibility".
Instructors have responsibilities, also.
I suspect that if he takes the course again, he'll be the safest student in the class.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Last edited:
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Well said, Nnobby45
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Actually, as an instructor myself, I see this as a particularly serious issue. These were novices. Novices can be especially unpredictable. An instructor needs to understand that, and conduct himself accordingly.Nnobby45 said:
