So you pulled your gun on someone what happened next???

<"If you are going to pull your gun out of your holster, you damn well better pull the trigger (unless you are a trained LEO). Otherwise, you have no business extracting metal from leather.">

I understand this mindset and in no way can say it is wrong. I do not adhere to it 100% because (luckily) it is not always necessary to shoot if one draws. If I don't have to shoot then by god I wont shoot. That does not mean that I've never felt the need to draw, it's happened...

Once working security at Eastland Lanes in Columbus an off duty CPD caught his wife being 'searched' by another man. Big man chases away the oppurtunist and proceeds to slap his Wife around. I tell him to go so he decides to take his frustrations out on me and double palmed me causing me to drop my radio. I introduced him to my PR-24 a few times and he's standing there bleeding and says something to the effect of oh you are so dead and reaches in his pocket, and I'm thinkin knife so I draw and go to low ready in case he's going for carkeys instead...I got my response, he started paying real close attention to me and moving real slow, he was going for his keys to leave. I felt bad about it but knew I did the right thing.

Another time, a pair of Guys followed me and my then pregnant Wife off the bus and wanted to get our money with a shell game so I yelled at them to leave us alone, and took my Wifes arm and head her up a side street, 1/2 block up here comes one of them out from between the row of houses and I turn around to see the other one approaching from up the street. The big one is crowding me and I am trying to give him space and half steppin backwards giving him room and he keeps shuffling towards me closing the gap and I was backed up against the street. Suddenly it escalated and I could feel him about to suckerpunch me and then he was going to knock down my pregnant Wife and take her purse. I remember it like yesterday, with my left arm I sweep my Wife rearwards and took one step back with my right foot and took a drawing grip on my 1911...(I never made firends so fast in my life!) The big guy puts his hands up and steps back, the smaller one sits down in the grass very fast. The big one turned and started to walk up through a yard the direction he had come between the houses. I took her arm and we jogged a few blocks to create distance. Then I couldn't stop shaking for like 20-30 minutes! Oh i was all pumped up, that was close.
 
I imagine responses to this loose survey question would fall into one of the following bins:

1) Pulled gun, opponent ceased, no fire.

2) Pulled gun, opponent continued, fire to stop.

3) Pulled gun, opponent continued, fire failed to stop, citizen injured/killed.

4) Didn't pull gun, opponent ceased, no action.

5) Didn't pull gun, opponent continued, physical action to stop.

6) Didn't pull gun, opponent continued, physical action failed to stop, citizen injured/killed.

#4 and #6 would not likely respond to your thread if they read it, particularly if they were deceased.

#2 would not likely respond because generally it is not something they want to talk about, considering the legal issues. If you've read the TFL archives going back to 1998, you'll find scant few postings from people sharing their personal story about stopping an attack with gunfire.

#1, #3 and #5 people may post about, either because they want to inform others, are proud of their successful defense, or some other reason.

We could further break this down into opponent types (home intruders, rapists, street muggers/druggies, car jackers, bar/public house patrons, terrorists, etc).

Regardless, while anecdotal information from a self-selective community of gun enthusiasts (such as TFL) might make for an interesting read, it does not sufficiently provide significant (statistical or otherwise) evidence for the formulation, validation or verification of tactics theory. In the end, gun enthusiasts will come to the same conclusions:

1) Having it is better than not having it and

2) Using it responsibly is of key importance both for effectiveness and to preserve the right to continue having it.
 
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The people I really fear are the bad people that do not give a darn if you shoot them or not. Fortunately the 9 or 10 bad ones I encountered over the last 30 years accepted my invitation to leave without much protest, or only got brave once they were in a vehicle and sped off, hurling obscenities at me.

There is NOTHING that will end a situation faster than for the perps to think that they are about to get shot. But don't stand there and act hesitant or give them the impression that you will not follow through.
 
booker t said:
I imagine responses to this loose survey question would fall into one of the following bins:

1) Pulled gun, opponent ceased, no fire.

2) Pulled gun, opponent continued, fire to stop.

4) Pulled gun, opponent continued, fire failed to stop, citizen injured/killed.

3) Didn't pull gun, opponent ceased, no action.

5) Didn't pull gun, opponent continued, physical action stop.

6) Didn't pull gun, opponent continued, physical action failed to stop, citizen injured/killed.

#4 and #6 would not likely respond to your thread if they read it, particularly if they were deceased.

#2 would not likely respond because generally it is not something they want to talk about, considering the legal issues. If you've read the TFL archives going back to 1998, you'll find scant few postings from people sharing their personal story about stopping an attack with gunfire.

#1, #3 and #5 people may post about, either because they want to inform others, are proud of their successful defense, or some other reason.

We could further break this down into opponent types (home intruders, rapists, street muggers/druggies, car jackers, bar/public house patrons, terrorists, etc).

Regardless, while from a self-selective community of gun enthusiasts (such as TFL) might make for an interesting read, it does not sufficiently provide significant (statistical or otherwise) evidence for the formulation, validation or verification of tactics theory. In the end, gun enthusiasts will come to the same conclusions:

1) Having it is better than not having it.
2) Using it responsibly is of key importance.
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And in what way does this answer the OP's question. If you have no "anecdotal information" to offer why are you responding?
 
Microgunner, Does BookerT remind you of someone? Initials DA.

BookerT, What this study will likely prove wrong is your assertion that the aggressive act of pulling a firearm on someone will somehow trigger their cornered animal aggressive response. In your books perhaps you are correct to assume as much however on the street most folks run, stop, comply, or retreat when faced with an armed opponent.

After further discussions with Microgunner I have to change his incident to the comply category because the bad guy stopped the physical attack on his vehicle although he continued his verbal assault. So now everyone that I know who has pulled a firearm on someone has gotten compliance.
 
In my former life as a police officer, armed suspects who were confronted either surrendered or fled. I never fired on a suspect, and the only time I directly received incoming fire was during a vehicle pursuit with suspect shooting over his shoulder while driving.

Here are couple examples that come to mind:

1. Man with gun call. Arrive to find suspect in the street with a Smith & Wesson Model 39 stuck in his front waist band. Suspect was slow to respond to verbal commands, but finally surrendered. Subsequent questioning revealed he was depressed and considering suicide by cop, but was afraid to draw.

2. Disorderly conduct call, suspect waving a brick around and yelling out in the street. Suspect dropped the brick as I arrived, but witnesses in the area alerted me to the suspect being armed with a knife as I exited my car. Suspect was challenged at gun point to drop the knife and immediately complied.

3. Shots fired call. Partner and I responded to a nearby flop house, and suspect located just inside an open garage door. Shiny metal flash in his hand, which was lowered to his side. Quickly identified the weapon as a 12-inch butcher knife and not a firearm. Suspect was challenged at gunpoint, and after some brief posturing he dropped the knife.


I've always been able to avoid, evade, or de-escalate trouble when off-duty or as a regular citizen. Awareness is the first weapon in my arsenal.
 
I've never been in that situation, but I remember an incident clearly from when I was a kid. We lived in San Antonio but were in Houston visiting family, and my dad always carried when we took roadtrips.

We were at a 4 way stop with 4 Stop signs. Just our truck and a truck full of Hispanic guys that looked like construction workers (the pickup bed probably had about 4 guys in it). No other cars around. We stopped, waited, and started to go. They come up, approach, and roll through their Stop sign. My dad loves the horn, so he lets them have it. They stop in the middle of the intersection and everyone glares at us. My dad waits, I'm frozen with fear in the passenger seat, and one of the guys stands up like he's going to jump out of the bed of the truck.

In a heartbeat, my dad reaches in front of me, opens the glove compartment, and has his Colt Python .357 magnum out, and is holding it casually on the steering wheel. They drove away, and that was that. Funny thing is, my dad doesn't even remember it, I guess it was in the early or mid 80's or so. I started calling him Frank Castle after that lol. He didn't know who that was, so I said, "he's like Mack Bolan". He thought that was funny.
 
I work as a Alarm Response Officer and work with local PDs our company SOP is that if you pull you weapon let the PD know, most of the time they say ok and thats it, unless they are there with you and and you have a burg in custody, then they write up a report, sn of weapon blue card no and all that BS, other than that nothing else. But if you are ccw and you pull your piece its best to call PD and report it so they cant say a man pulled a gun on me and you get in Deep S--t !!!!!:)
 
jerryd said:
But if you are ccw and you pull your piece its best to call PD and report it so they cant say a man pulled a gun on me and you get in Deep S--t !!!!!
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Why couldn't they say "a man pulled a gun on me"?
 
Why couldn't they say "a man pulled a gun on me"?
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I think his intended response was,

'If you pull your weapon and brandish it as a civilian, it would be prudent of you to notify the police. It would look much better for your side of the story if you would have already explained the situation in-depth and your throught process if/when the other party calls the police to say that some guy pulled a gun on him for 'no particular reason'. In the latter case, you are under immediate scrutiny and must explain yourself to get out of the hot water that you're currently in, rather than having already bypassed said alarm-state.'

Correct me if I'm wrong.

~LT
 
I agree that it is better to be the first reporter at least I feel like it is. Still I didn't called the PO PO when it happened to me.

Microgunners case does prove that law enforcement can be open minded even if we decide not to call.
 
I have had to use a firearm and I will never get over it.

I posted a horrible experience I had when two intruders fired on me and I was shot and had to kill both in my living room. I am a Texas attorney and know the law as far as the statutes and common law exceptions to carrying a loaded gun. We have people in the rural parts of our state who carry a loaded rifle and shot-gun in their gun racks in plain sight. My state legislature passed a law concerning self-defense and the use of firearms to defend yourself and your property. It's called the "castle doctrine" and allows you to use deadly force to defend your person, in the home, even if the intruder is unarmed and fleeing. It has been extended by judicial interpretation to defense of your car-as an extension of your home. In addition, you can use deadly force to defend your property. We have a myriad of cases where someone has a barn or warehouse and is regularly burglarized. You can actually lay in wait and ambush someone who is stealing personal property. Since this law has passed, two skip tracers, or as they are called in the television series "Dog the Bounty Hunter" bounty hunters, or as we attorney's call them bond agents, have been killed trying to apprehend someone who has an active warrant from failure to appear. In both cases the bond agents ran up on the fugitive without warning, failed to identify themselves and were killed. Both were no-billed by the grand jury. We have had more than 10 persons killed attempting to repossess motor vehicles and none of the shooters were indicted. The message from the District Attorney in the most populous county in Texas [Houston, Harris County] was, if your a repo man, you better be quicker, or don't hook up to someone's pick-up in the middle of the night. Now I stated earlier and I will again, even if I am armed ( I have a concealed weapons permit ) and I am confronted by a mugger, even after my home was broken into while my wife and young son were home with me, I am giving you my wallet. Additionally, had I not had the burglars fire through my bedroom door, they could have carried off my flatscreen and DVD player, while I took cover in my bedroom with my Remington Marine 870 tactical 12 gauge. However, when one of them fired through my door after I yelled "I'm armed and on the phone with the police, you better get what you got and leave." I knew I had to enter that room and do what I had to do. My wife and son were on the master bedroom closet floor not 60 feet away and I had to stop those men from entering my bedroom. I did not want to shoot anyone. I regret to this day I had to go into the bedroom and kill two strangers. I do not remember shooting, chambering other rounds, and cutting on and off my tactical light, I did not know I was shot by a 40 cal Taurus semi-auto until the Police arrived and I was in the closet with my wife and child. And I saw first-hand what 12 gauge 00 Buck, chambered in 3 inch magnum does to human flesh and bone. My home was destroyed and my insurance spent $60,000 in repair and replacement. I spend two weeks in the hospital and my wife had to clean up the mess. We had to buy new furniture, sheetrock in five rooms, replace carpeting and my bedroom door. Still, I would not kill anyone over a TV or DVD player. My ONLY concern was my wife and son. I had a CWP before the event and still carry. I do not brandish the firearm ever and would never pull it out unless I had no other choice. If the aggressor retreated, he would do so in peace. As I have stated before, I am "situationally aware" and would not allow myself in my present surroundings to be in a situation where talking could not defuse the situation. I will and have retreated from confrontation. I have nothing to prove and carrying a weapon is a responsibility and does not embolden me. I was a professional boxer until I met my wife and have the option to use non-lethal force and have done so when talking fails. But I will say this again, if I pull my firearm or raise my shotgun in defense of myself or my family, and you pose a continuing threat, I will kill you. I will agonize and doubt myself as before. But I will not hesitate. I have never had to raise a weapon before that night, thank God. When I do, I do not point it at you to "scare" you, or make you rethink your situation, I do so because I am going to shoot you and I intend to kill you. Agree or disagree. Change the hypo all you want, there are infinite situations, degrees of threat, attack, retreat, duty for you to retreat, etc.... If I pull my weapon, I intend to kill you. Pistols are not made for fun and relaxation. I have other firearms that are infinately more fun to shoot and hunt with. My pistols are made to kill other human beings. I have practiced for that purpose, and will fire it if I pull it.....period. I am an avid firearms collector and can promise you, 9 out of 10 people, given a choice, want to fire my AK and AR platforms. I collect bolt action rifles. I have many rare and expensive shotguns. However I only have six pistols. A pair of stainless steel Colt .357 Pythons which were a gift from my father when I graduated from law school, my wife's 40 cal Glock, a Colt 1911, my concealed weapon of choice a Barretta 9mm, and my father's trooper pistol from his State Trooper career. I'm done.
 
My pistols are made to kill other human beings. I have practiced for that purpose, and will fire it if I pull it.....period.
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So if the bad guy sees you smoking leather with your pistol and drops his gun while screaming like a little girl you still gonna fire???
 
As LEO had multiple opportunities in shoot don't shoot scenarios always error on don't shoot side due to agencies that were famous for hanging cops out to dry in shootings. When I worked narcotics not much gun play because everyone expected the other guy to be strapped.
 
If you are going to pull your gun out of your holster, you damn well better pull the trigger (unless you are a trained LEO). Otherwise, you have no business extracting metal from leather.
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Oh come on now, that just ain't so. I am a trained LEO, well trained at that. I was also a firearms' instructor for about 13-14 years. are you telling me that if I was not a trained LEO, and heard someone break into my home, in the middle of the dark of night, that I would have no business to arm myself with pistol in hand (as in out of its holster) and that if I had pulled it out and then saw a prowler/intruder I had better 'damn well pull the trigger' even if the guy saw me put up his hands and said I surrender? Absolutes about what you must do just don't work each and every time.

As for me having drawn my gun from my holster I have done it many - many times while on entries and during other arrest situations.

I have also done it on the spur of the moment during life or death situations. One time I fired and missed, had broken glass in my eyes, but the bad guys fled.

Another time pulled it on a guy coming at me with a knife, even though he was drunk, he stopped.

Another time, I stuck a gun barrel into a bad guy's mouth. A bystander jumped me and pulled my arm down because he thought I was going to kill the bad guy. Maybe -maybe not, I was pretty badly beaten and very woozy from several hits to my head with a club. He and 3 or 4 other of his buddies had been in the process of beating me bloody until I was able to get a gun out of my car. It was in the car because I had stopped for a beer. never even had more than a sip and these jokers started harassing me so I left the bar. They followed and jumped me. He and the main other guy were arrested and went to trial. He was acquitted the main guy convicted.

Another time I fired a warning shot that actually parted the guys hair. Net effect, he and about 15 to 20 other guys who were about to try to beat me to death fled back into Mexico. Had they not - well I would have had one shot less but still would have had 5 and a couple of complete reloads. Would not likely do that again, next time I would probably shoot the guy under the exact same circumstances but I was young and a green-horn at the time.

Another time, I shot the guy, he had no chance to react other than to turn and flee. Shot into his thigh, came out of the leg, through the ball-sack, out of the ball-sack, into his other thigh and down the bone toward the knee where, as far as I know, it is still lodged if the dirtbag is still alive. That was about 22 or 23 years ago and I figure someone probably killed him by now or that he has OD'd by now.

A couple to a few other times, but those are enough to illustrate, no you do not need to pull the trigger each time your gun clears leather. Sometimes the threat stops once you draw or display the weapon. The thing is you had best be continuously assessing the situation and then determining how to act based on your assessments and knowledge to know if you should fire once the weapon is in hand and ready to be fired. That way, should you ever actually have to shoot someone, you will be more likely to have been justified than to have simply fired a shot as a reaction of you having drawn your weapon. Don't ever believe that the threat cannot be stopped without the need to fire a shot. That is a good way to get yourself tried for murder.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
Thank you hammerstrike for sharing your story.

I just became a CCW holder and i carry when i go anywhere. I'm a home owner, and myself have a family (Wife and a little boy).

I have a Full sized XDM .40 cal that is my carry weapon at this time. When I carry i have both 16 round magazines loaded with hollow points. At home it remains in my Office ready to go (But hidden). Also in the office closet is a loaded magazine for my GSG-5 and the GSG-5 itself.

In my Bedroom, within arms reach of my side of the bed, Is my 12 gauge Mossberg 500T loaded with Remmington home defense shells.

I always wonder what I would do if someone broke into my home. I would be armed with my 12 gauge when i encountered them..If i see a weapon or an attempt to grab a weapon. I will fire. If I see no weapon, no attempt to grab a weapon and they are submissive/run, I will allow them to leave and then make the appropriate calls to police.

As for a story pulling a weapon on someone..I do not have a story (yet) and hopefully it will remain that way. However i was recently told a story by a friend of mine who carries...and i will share his: This is located in Florida.

He was at his apt. and it was late one evening. He stepped out front and saw a girl leaning on his car and ******* in the parking lot (He has a very nice car). He proceeds to yell at the girl, "Hey Hoe, Get the F**k off my car." She yells some comments back and then 5 guys get out of a car nearby and surround my friend. a few of them removed their belts and wrapped them around their hands (Remember this). He had his jacket on, with his XD .40 Compact on his side. One of the guys got in his face and started shoving him. Firmly with one hand out holding the attacker away he kept repeating "Please step back, You dont want to do this". My friends other hand was on his weapon, aimed at the attacker. The attacker kept pressing forward and my friend backed slowly to his apt door with the 5 men following him up the stairs to his door step. He went to retreat into his apartment, and one of the men Held his door open, and stepped into his apartment. At this point, my friend drew his weapon to a low ready position and stated "One more step, and I will shoot you." The attacked looked at the gun, then my friend and said "You think im afraid of a BB gun?", To which my friend Replied, "One more step, and you are going to find out what it is". The attacker retreated, my friend closed/locked his door, and proceeded to call the PD and inform them of what happened incase they decided to call the police and say my friend had brandished a weapon. The police said the moment the attacker(s) removed their belts and wrapped them around their nuckles he could have drawn/fired, and again would have been justified when the individual held the door open and stepped into his apt.


just because you might be JUSTIFIED to pull your weapon and USE it, Doesn't mean you HAVE to.
 
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