Slow and heavy or fast and light: requesting definite answer

I know this is not the OP's question but...
This is all about being in a fight, right?

Replacement, which bullet, which caliber..slow, heavy etc etc...

As I have mentioned before, I would WANT the weapon that I am used to.
What I NEED is however, some "luck".
And IMHO, this goes for everyone...

So I really, honestly never spend any of my time thinking of these, "no good" fantasies, never cared. And I mean no disrespect by calling these fantasies. It is always good to think, and think some more.
However IMHO not on these subjects, at least not this much...:)
If you might/will get into a fight, get the "weapon" you have trained with. And wish for "luck"...:)


All the best
 
I "think" a heavier bullet would produce more energy and that energy is what will cause the damage. So Heavier.

That said I like how my 9 mm shoots 90g XTP's at faster speeds? I have no idea of the damage it could do though? I need to get some "soft" targets and try some out?
 
Since it is nearly impossible to synthesize some sort of equation for lethality since the possible outcomes of a firefight are infinite.. I believe we must look at the ample firefights which have broken out in the course of human history and go from there to "get a sense" for what works.

What percentage of people shot by 9mm live versus 45 acp?
What percentage of people shot by 556 live versus 762x39?
No one disputes the power and effectiveness of the the 357 mag.. but it isn't small and fast OR big and slow. Happy medium maybe?? I don't know. Just some thought provocation here :rolleyes:
 
Wow... Lots of replies on this thread already. Someone already posted what I was going to say, but its worth repeating. If you don't like slow and heavy or fast and light, go with fast and heavy. Carry as much gun as you can shoot reasonably well and be done with it.

Despite all this debating back and forth, we will all carry as much gun as we possibly can. For some, it will be a .44 magnum and for others, it may be a .25 acp. For me, it is a 9mm with HydraShoks in +P+. It is the best compromise I could come up with. It is hard to carry anything bigger and I can't shoot the more powerful calibers well out of a small platform.
 
i'm am NOT an expert

i have been shooting for nearly 10 years, but all i was doing then was shooting. i would go buy a few hundred rounds, hit the nearest range, and have at it.

in the last year, i have started to get a little more "involved" with handgunning (NOTE: i went from just "shooting" to "handgunning"). from what i have seen/read/heard, the performance of a bullet is not solely related to grain weight...length of barrel should be taken into consideration, correct?

my (rather basic) understanding is that you get better performance with heavier grain weights by using LONGER barrel guns. on the other hand, you should use lighter weights in SHORTER barrel guns.

again, i am no expert. please enlighten me if i am just spouting nonsense (i am certain that someone will make a post in the next few minutes citing that they use a subcompact 40 with 180g ammo)
 
Answer to the Ultimate Question --

I have given this a lot of Deep Thought and calculated many, many times. The answer is . . .



















------------------------ 42 -----------------------
 
my (rather basic) understanding is that you get better performance with heavier grain weights by using LONGER barrel guns. on the other hand, you should use lighter weights in SHORTER barrel guns.

Not really. If a barrel is going to like a bullet it depends loosely on size/shape/twistrate. The barrel may like heavy or light bullets regardless of length.

I've learned from reloading that the same barrel can like and dislike the same bullet depending on the powder used and if the barrel "likes" the powder. Again, loosely speaking...shorter barrels like faster powders and longer barrels like slower powders is what it seems to me.

Sorry no scientific answer ;)

To answer the original question, I like complete penetration of the animal with a large caliber permanent cavity. The animal is hurt through and through and will not go far with a reasonable hit.
 
cop 357 vs 40

I think-but-cannot-prove that the 40 S&W cartridge and platforms are simply easier for police to shoot, thereby skewing cartridge comparison.
 
;)

From the opening post:

Spare the shot placement is king discourse, what is more incapacitating? A heavy and slow bullet or a fast and light one? Seems there should be someone with the scientific expertise to answer this question.

That was our first clue.

This topic has been boarded plenty of times in this and other forums but I have never encountered a definite answer. ...

P.S. Sometimes arguing over this topic it seems like debating which is stronger, the unmovable object or the unstoppable force.

These were your clues.

If you have concluded that the answer to "How high is up?" is really out there and you don't want to hear the explanation of the difference between "altitude" and "direction", then there's not much discussion to be had (although that never seems to stop it). You can keep asking the question until you are a really old man. That won't create a new answer.

"Which is more incapacitating?" is just another way to ask, "Which is best?"

The difference between "slow and heavy" and "fast and light" is a continuum of differences, not a switch function where "slow and heavy" is best up to this point and "fast and light" is best beyond that point. Comparing extremes doesn't really answer the question either. It only illustrates the difference.

You choose your platform and cartridge and you go learn to shoot. Along the way you may change your mind about how slow and how heavy vs how light and how fast, but you learn to shoot the best you can. Everything else is personal choice and preference, critical choices for a few, not so much for most of us.

I bet I could spread a can of black pepper on the table here and some of us would to search for the fly poop for a week.
 
"Make haste- slowly." Wyatt Earp

The old cow town marshal was right. Not only to the presentation and usage of weapon, but in its application.

Don't know you, you don't know me. Trying to corral a topic by leaving out the most crucial aspect of handgunnery, leaves me perplexed, as to your intentions, Sir.

Which is more efficacious, being struck through the eye, bullet transiting through the brain, destroying the brain stem, with a .22LR standard velocity round, or being grazed by a .50BMG, and NOT rendering an "instant" incapacitation?

To do away with shot placement, is to seek a "silver bullet" that will do all things, for all people.

All engineering is a compromise. In combat, NOTHING is a "given." Expecting a person, weapon, munition to always act the same way, in an optimal manner, is not possible- physiologically, mentally, or mechanically.

Science(s) being what it is, allows for variables that can be repeated under controlled conditions. Combat is not controlled on a repeatable basis.

The enemy does not follow our plans- that's why he's called "the enemy."

What you should be seeking is maximum effective control, with most effective projectile. Ease of use, maximum PRACTICAL accuracy for weapon envisioned/applied, and projectile designed for velocity and weight/mass, to incapacitate target- IF shooter does his job...

All else is immaterial. Look at Ft. Hood terrorist. Used a FN57 pistol. High velocity, small diameter/low mass projectile, w/good accuracy, low recoil... Don't know how much range time the perp had, but the results of his rampage are going to become legend for results- AGAINST unarmed victims...

Luby's Cafeteria, where perp had two or more weapons, multiple reloads of semi-autos. FN57 wasn't more than a dream back then... Results? Deadly... Shooter may not have been nearly as accurate, but had bigger, slower projectiles to send into the innocents there...

Dead is dead- whether by small/fast, or large/slow.

IF it's you, the shooter, asking as to what is best, that's another question, with different criteria. What ranges, how many victims, whether or not the victims are likewise armed, and the list goes on...

In cases like Ft. Hood and Luby's, the victims were neither armed, nor expecting to be attacked with murderous intent. Until Americans are allowed to carry, without overly restrictive laws, events like these will be on the increase, as narco-terrorism, gangs, and islamofascism continue to increase.

Front sight, front sight, front sight. You shoot the weapon you use best, with the best accuracy, until the target is down. Move, or get to cover. Shift to the next target. Engage, remove from the threat. Repeat as necessary.

IF it's a .22LR Ruger, or a S&W .500, whatever you've trained with and are confident in, do your job. It isn't bullet size or velocity, unless you're shooting dangerous game, vehicles, or barriers. IT IS ALL ABOUT ACCURACY!!!

THE only exceptions are breaking contact and/or stopping a multiple assault. And WHO is going to be carrying handguns that can carry the ammunition to do that? Especially, concealed carry?

There are many, like Beretta 92s that can carry Mec-Gar 20rd AFCs, that give 21rds on board, for anti-personnel use, likewise the FN57... Small and smaller... Contrariwise, there's the Glock G21, 13rd mags w/+4 Arredondo extensions, to make 18rds of .45acp... So, small, medium, and large... Very fast, not so fast, and downright leisurely...

The above best work like any other weapon, single shot or up to full auto... With aimed fire...

Decide for yourself, what weapon meets your needs, what ammunition/projectiles will do what you require. Then forget the rest...

6.8mmSPC_Fan, out...
 
I skipped to page 5 and find out NOTHING. :D

It reminds me of the movie WAR GAMES.
In the end, the computer states:
"Strange game. The only winning move is not to play..." ;)

For the record, my choice is .40 / 180-gr. projectiles in a Beretta launching platform.
:)
 
CDW the .45ACP 230gr. JHP with out a doubt. There is a reason we still use 1911's and the round has been around since before then. I'm not saying it's the ultimate manstopper no pistol is, but its definitley the one I choose for the 200lb or whatever guy.
 
I "think" a heavier bullet would produce more energy and that energy is what will cause the damage. So Heavier.

Nope. It's the bullets weight in relation to speed that determines energy. The lighter ones at higher speed quite often surpass the heavy slow ones in that regard.
 
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