reynolds357
New member
Accuracy is both the Indian and the arrow. I shoot with a world record holding bench rest shooter. I guarantee you if he shot my sons .30-30 Win 94 in the next match, he would finish last place.
Single shot rifles, inaccurate?
- Thread starter Pops1085
- Start date
They can be, but the OP specifically wanted to compare guns that were not bolt actions. There will always be individual examples of all action types than can outshoot other individual examples of a different type.
Overall though I believe the bolt action design is the most inherently accurate regardless of it's capacity.
reynolds357
New member
The most accurate rifle I have ever owned would be a toss up between a Bat/Lilja .30br. And a Bat/Hart 6PPC. A 700/Lilja 6Br Norma I have now is knocking on the door.
I'm not arguing that my experience is typical but, concerning accurate rifles, over the past fifty years or so I've had the good fortune to have owned and shot many, many nice rifles, the most accurate one I've had is a Ruger No.1 V, chambered in .220 Swift. It's not for sale. 
As you can see, opinions vary.
the thing is the use of words like "generally", "inherently", and "as a rule" means you are including ALL the bolt actions, and all single shots, (and as pointed out, they might be bolt action single shots), which means all the good ones, AND all the bad ones, and making a broad pronouncement based on what? which one has the most numbers of good or bad??
For virtually every "rule" there are exceptions. And for every argument you can make based on generalities, someone can point out specific exceptions.
IN THEORY, the common style of single shot, with a two piece stock has the potential to be less accurate than a design with a one piece stock. HOWEVER, any individual rifle can be more accurate than any other, there is no hard and fast rule.
There's a LOT more to it than just general action type.
If you are talking about break action single shots then as a rule they can't come close to a good bolt rifle. You find exceptions that can come close, and maybe even shoot better than a specific bolt rifle. But that is probably only because that particular bolt gun was poorly manufactured.
Many falling block single shots can be pretty accurate and will often give bolt actions a run for the money. But you are still more likely to find most bolt rifles to be more accurate. It isn't that they can't be accurate. But it is a lot easier to make a bolt rifle accurate than any break action or falling block single shot.
Some of the most accurate rifles built are single shot bolt guns.
Many falling block single shots can be pretty accurate and will often give bolt actions a run for the money. But you are still more likely to find most bolt rifles to be more accurate. It isn't that they can't be accurate. But it is a lot easier to make a bolt rifle accurate than any break action or falling block single shot.
Some of the most accurate rifles built are single shot bolt guns.
There's a good amount of truth in this. Single shot actions are fine, but most single shots have two piece stocks and the forend often touches the barrel. This isn't good for ultimate accuracy. Some single shots mount the forend so it doesn't touch and you can get good accuracy from them. But if you're truly serious about accuracy, a bolt action is the way to go.
Take a look at a serious benchrest competition and count how many non-bolt actions there are.
Also take a look at the same group and see how many bolt actions there AREN'T.
You won't find any of the literally dozens of fine bolt action rifles designed and used for military and sporting purposes. What you find today is highly specialized actions, using all the known tricks to enhance their accuracy.
You don't find economy sedans, pickups, or SUV's at the 1/4 mile drag strip, you find top fuel funny cars and rails. Because they are optimized for the game being played.
IF someone built a quality falling block action, with the hyper-fast lock time desired by benchrest shooters, it could stand a good chance of competing successfully. No one is, and probably no one will, simply because highly evolved bolt actions fill that niche more than well enough.
reynolds357
New member
I think the reason no one tries to build a falling block bench gun is because its harder to reload; requires more movement.
My new favorite set up is, right bolt, left port. I used right bolt, left load, right eject for a while, but never really liked it.
My new favorite set up is, right bolt, left port. I used right bolt, left load, right eject for a while, but never really liked it.
Last edited:
Some years back Ruger build #1 in 22ppc/6ppc. I had one and had it rebarrel using 26" 1/14 twist barrel chamber for tight neck 6ppc. I had fore end rework also Kepplinger single set trigger installed. Pretty nice rifle.
I had Ruger # 1 varmint model 220 swift and had it rebarreled to tight neck 22BR, had all the same work do to that as 6ppc.
Sometimes build is more fun that competing.
I had Ruger # 1 varmint model 220 swift and had it rebarreled to tight neck 22BR, had all the same work do to that as 6ppc.
Sometimes build is more fun that competing.
I have no single shot rifles. But, I have shot one of my daughter's father in law's bolt action single shot bench rest rifles at his range (on his property.) Incredibly accurate! My first 3-shot group at 100 yards was less than a 1/2 inch. Despite my many years of hunting experience I was shocked by that bench rest experience. I believe bolt action single shot rifles are generally more accurate than a break-open action because the "lock-up" is probably more stable (or rigid) and also stronger (although strength - by itself - probably has little affect on accuracy.)
I've owned several Ruger #1s over the years and love the style of them, but sadly never owned one that I considered very accurate. I guess if you do enough alterations people seem to get them to work. I've still currently got a couple of TC pro hunters in a safe that I get out now and then, but the groups I get out of them are pretty disappointing to me as well. I can put a 3" sticker on the target at 100 yds and hold on them, but no real tight groups. I have them in .308, 7/08, and 30-06.
While not shooting competition with center fires, I still like my rifles to group close for other applications. I find it amusing sometimes with all the things guys go through to make their rifles shoot groups. I'm an old codger and have been through most of that stuff over the years. I've seen guys shooting their #1s with the forend off, with it spaced from the barrel using all kinds of methods, etc...
Lately I've been playing with a cheap Ruger predator in 6.5 Creedmore. It shoots nice 1/2 inch groups using factory Hornady ammo or my reloads...and have done nothing to it. I've got a couple hundred rounds through it and cleaned it once after the first bench session....it just keeps putting them in there. Why can't we buy nice rifles in either single shot or bolt that will do this without alteration, is something I just don't understand.
While not shooting competition with center fires, I still like my rifles to group close for other applications. I find it amusing sometimes with all the things guys go through to make their rifles shoot groups. I'm an old codger and have been through most of that stuff over the years. I've seen guys shooting their #1s with the forend off, with it spaced from the barrel using all kinds of methods, etc...
Lately I've been playing with a cheap Ruger predator in 6.5 Creedmore. It shoots nice 1/2 inch groups using factory Hornady ammo or my reloads...and have done nothing to it. I've got a couple hundred rounds through it and cleaned it once after the first bench session....it just keeps putting them in there. Why can't we buy nice rifles in either single shot or bolt that will do this without alteration, is something I just don't understand.
Short yardage BR is 5 target 5 shot group each target shot in 5 relays and smallest average of those 5 groups wins the match.
This is match result and does include group size at 200yd each target and honesty of BR is the agg they win with. Only honest agg is 100yds
http://azbrs.com/downloads/results/2016-Cactus_Classic-Light_Varmint_200yd.pdf
This is match result and does include group size at 200yd each target and honesty of BR is the agg they win with. Only honest agg is 100yds
http://azbrs.com/downloads/results/2016-Cactus_Classic-Light_Varmint_200yd.pdf
alaskabushman
New member
Benchrest shooters use bolt actions almost exclusively, and since they are obsessed with finite accuracy at 1k yards I'd say they know best. For the average guy however, I doubt it would make a noticeable difference in practical use. A single shot with ammo it likes and someone who practiced with the gun will out-shoot a novice with a quality bolt gun and surplus ammo.
I have felt for a number of years now that we are far too concerned with that ultra fine accuracy, I just fail to see how it makes a lick of difference in the real world. (competition and LEO/military use aside)
I have felt for a number of years now that we are far too concerned with that ultra fine accuracy, I just fail to see how it makes a lick of difference in the real world. (competition and LEO/military use aside)
I have an MOA Maximum single shot falling block handgun.14 in bull bbl,.260 Rem.It was made in Ohio.My understanding is they moved the business to Colorado or Wyoming.I have seen posts from the proprietor here. MOA Maximum is their standard. With a 4x scope and 120 gr Ballistic tips at about 2600,mine will shoot three to five rounds in 5/8 to 3/4 in groups.I have no doubt the gun will do better,I'm just a mediocre shot.If the guy from MOA is here,I'm sure you can vouch.
I'm not talking about SS bolt guns.Yes,they are accurate.Or can be.
I'm thinking the rifles in the Coors Scheutzen Competitions could shoot.
If I had to guess,I see two issues.The two piece stock,versus a rigid one piece stock that can free float the barrel.Pretty much by definition,however you hold or rest the barrel of a single shot translates to pressure on the barrel.
Next,maybe with the exception of the Sharps-Bochardt,the real estate of a single shot dictates a mechanical action to strike the primer that is not co-axial with the bore. That energy shows up on the target. You may have a leaf mainspring in the forend and a hammer,or a hammer striking an angled firing pin.Its off axis acceleration and strike.
In many ways,unless we just obsess,the hair splitting accuracy is of limited use. Gasp!! Blasphemy!!
Worst case,point of aim to point of impact between a 1 MOA falling block and a 0.5 MOA bolt rifle is 3/4 in at 300 yds. I don't shoot good enough to notice.
(My math? Lets say,close enough,the 0.5 MOA rifle shoots 1.5 in circular groups at 300 yds.The 1 MOA rifle shoots 3 in circular groups. Point of aim to point of impact is the radius of the circle..The 0.5 MOA rifle will be off center a max of 0.75 in. And the one MOA rifle a max of 1.5 in.The difference is3/4 in at 300 yds.
Could be if you put a Bochardt striker style falling block in a chassis like an artillery piece or a Barrett,it might break the rules.
I'm not talking about SS bolt guns.Yes,they are accurate.Or can be.
I'm thinking the rifles in the Coors Scheutzen Competitions could shoot.
If I had to guess,I see two issues.The two piece stock,versus a rigid one piece stock that can free float the barrel.Pretty much by definition,however you hold or rest the barrel of a single shot translates to pressure on the barrel.
Next,maybe with the exception of the Sharps-Bochardt,the real estate of a single shot dictates a mechanical action to strike the primer that is not co-axial with the bore. That energy shows up on the target. You may have a leaf mainspring in the forend and a hammer,or a hammer striking an angled firing pin.Its off axis acceleration and strike.
In many ways,unless we just obsess,the hair splitting accuracy is of limited use. Gasp!! Blasphemy!!
Worst case,point of aim to point of impact between a 1 MOA falling block and a 0.5 MOA bolt rifle is 3/4 in at 300 yds. I don't shoot good enough to notice.
(My math? Lets say,close enough,the 0.5 MOA rifle shoots 1.5 in circular groups at 300 yds.The 1 MOA rifle shoots 3 in circular groups. Point of aim to point of impact is the radius of the circle..The 0.5 MOA rifle will be off center a max of 0.75 in. And the one MOA rifle a max of 1.5 in.The difference is3/4 in at 300 yds.
Could be if you put a Bochardt striker style falling block in a chassis like an artillery piece or a Barrett,it might break the rules.
Last edited:
The lock up and the forearm mounting will always keep a traditional single shot behind a bolt action. First, they don't cam closed. Therefore, single shots rely on tight fits that are still loose enough to operate with some dust, etc in them.
Then there is the forearm. Mounted to the barrel, every shot has some force exerted on the barrel, but never the same.
Therefore, these are typically good, but not great rifles. Still quite fun!
Then there is the forearm. Mounted to the barrel, every shot has some force exerted on the barrel, but never the same.
Therefore, these are typically good, but not great rifles. Still quite fun!