Silencer

[RAnb]

I work for the government, but I'm not here to help. I heard about this post on another forum, but was not dragged over here. I was wondering if there was a Zumbo clone here and it appears there is. The only gun forums I have been on where people have not insulted others by telling them that their silencers are illegal, immoral or some otherwise unamerican tripe have been subguns and silencertalk forums. If we do not remain united, then we will help those like the Brady bunch anbd the VPC take away our rights.

Ranb

 

[MisterWilson]

The only reason NC residents have to go through the NFA hurdle is because NC law says specifically that silencers are illegal. Concealed weapons are specifically illegal also with exceptions that most are more familiar with. If the nuance of this is too much for you , I understand.

The NFA is Federal law. Everyone in the country must jump through that.

If I'm not mistaken, Arizona, Texas, and many other states list these items as being illegal but NFA registration as an acceptable defense.

Savvy?

 

[VUPDblue]

NC 14-288.8
The only persons capable of owning or possessing a weapon of mass death and destruction, as defined above, are the following:

1.Persons exempted from the provisions of carrying a concealed weapon in North Carolina with respect to any activity lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties;

2.Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses;

Once again I quote NC statutes. What I am having a hard time working out with you, Zero, is why you don't see this exception in NC law. I understand where you quoted 14-288.8 but just that one part of the definition isn't the whole law. The whole statute says basically 'suppressors are illegal unless they are properly papered'. This is parallel to concealed cary laws which are written the same way. 'Concealed cary is illegal unless you are properly licensed'. In fact, lots of laws are written this way, not just gun laws.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Once again I quote NC statutes. What I am having a hard time working out with you, Zero, is why you don't see this exception in NC law. I understand where you quoted 14-288.8 but just that one part of the definition isn't the whole law. The whole statute says basically 'suppressors are illegal unless they are properly papered'. This is parallel to concealed cary laws which are written the same way. 'Concealed cary is illegal unless you are properly licensed'. In fact, lots of laws are written this way, not just gun laws.

LOL, the same reason SCOTUS goes 5/4 so often. I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.

 

[Zak Smith]

I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.

This is ridiculous. It's like reading, "No dogs are allowed in the park unless if leashed." and concluding that dogs are not allowed in the park at all. That is basic reading comprehension fail.

-z

 

[VUPDblue]

I don't see why you can't see that if they weren't illegal you wouldn't need an exception.

I guess it boils down to the nuts and bolts of the definition of illegal. The way I see it, illegal and restricted are very far apart by definition. The way I was schooled, illegal is final and has no exceptions. Restricted, however, has exceptions and is legal as long as those exceptions are abided by. The way I read it in NC law, suppressors are restricted items, not patently illegal.

 

[ZeroJunk]

It's like reading, "No dogs are allowed in the park unless if leashed." and concluding that dogs are not allowed in the park at all.

You keep wanting to compare this to the little innocuous rules we follow in everyday life because it serves your purpose.
Why not put it in the context it is actually in?

1. bombs of all sorts;
2. grenades;
3. rockets having a propellant charge of more than four (4) ounces;
25
4. a missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter
(1/4) ounce;
5. mines;
6. any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type
particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will expel a projectile using
an explosive, or other propellant, and which has a barrel with a bore of more
than one-half (1/2) inch in diameter;
7. any firearm capable of fully automatic fire;
8. any shotgun with a barrel length less than eighteen (18) inches or an overall
length of less than twenty-six (26) inches;
9. a rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen (16) inches or an overall length
of less than twenty-six (26) inches;
10. any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is
included within this definition; and
11. any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting a
device into any weapon described above, and from which a weapon of mass
death and destruction may readily be assembled.
Thus, a device which could convert a semi-automatic firearm into one capable of full
automatic fire, would be in violation of this statute, whether or not one actually possesses
such a weapon. The possession of the device itself is a crime. If any person possesses a
weapon of mass death and destruction in violation of this statute, he/she would be guilty
of a Class F Felony.

 

[Zak Smith]

You keep wanting to compare this to the little innocuous rules we follow in everyday life because it serves your purpose.
Why not put it in the context it is actually in?

Hysterics aside, that's followed by the provision (the "exception" or "unless") that defines when the preceding law does not apply. That is the context.

 

[ZeroJunk]

that's followed by the provision (the "exception" or "unless") that defines when the preceding law does not apply.

Cool. I think I want a land mine, maybe a real Claymore, and a nice big bomb. Should be a simple matter since they are legal.
I just bet my CLEO is going to let me have either.

Hysterics aside

So, it's hysterics now when somebody disagrees with you.

 

[Zak Smith]

Should be a simple matter since they are legal.

The NC law cedes the decision, in part, to federal law. In this case, the federal requirements for NFA items are relatively straight-forward and no harder to satisfy than a NC CCW permit. It's not that complicated to understand.

 

[ZeroJunk]

It's not that complicated to understand.

So, you are saying I should be able to buy a real Claymore, SAM missile etc. per this same exception since it makes all this stuff legal, kinda like letting your dog off it's leash in the park?

 

[VUPDblue]

I just bet my CLEO is going to let me have either.

I think you don't fully understand the implications of the CLEO signoff in relation to NFA items. The CLEO's signature represents the fact that the appicant is not known to the CLEO to be pursuing the transfer of the NFA item for illicit reasons. It is not a permission slip. IMHO, the CLEO signature is merely a formality because there are 2 legal ways around it. In some states, the CLEO is required to sign the forms when asked. The way the NC law reads to me is that if you can get your paws on a registered explosive DD, you can have it transfered to you. NC doesn't appear to restrict those above and beyond the NFA. In my state, however, explosive DD's (and SBS's) are explicitly restricted regardless of the NFA. I see no provisions in NC law for any of that.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I think you don't fully understand the implications of the CLEO signoff in relation to NFA items. The CLEO's signature represents the fact that the appicant is not known to the CLEO to be pursuing the transfer of the NFA item for illicit reasons. It is not a permission slip. IMHO, the CLEO signature is merely a formality because there are 2 legal ways around it. In some states, the CLEO is required to sign the forms when asked. The way the NC law reads to me is that if you can get your paws on a registered explosive DD, you can have it transfered to you. NC doesn't appear to restrict those above and beyond the NFA. In my state, however, explosive DD's (and SBS's) are explicitly restricted regardless of the NFA. I see no provisions in NC law for any of that.

Interesting.

 

[PTK]

SAM missile

Civilians are prohibited from owning/possessing/using any sort of surface to air missile designed as a weapon.

 

[Zak Smith]

So, you are saying I should be able to buy a real Claymore, SAM missile etc. per this same exception since it makes all this stuff legal, kinda like letting your dog off it's leash in the park?

Some of those items are regulated under the NFA; some are not (but are regulated under other law). The NC law refers to the relevant laws for the particular items in question to determine its exemption status.

 

[Conqueror]

If you ask NC LEO's " Are silencers legal?" with no coaching, the answer will be overwhelmingly "No".

I have to chuckle at anyone who uses "what LEOs think" as proof that silencers are illegal. If you ask LEOs in ANY state whether silencers are legal, the answer will usually be "No." Law Enforcement training rarely addresses the NFA except to tell officers to investigate with a high degree of suspicion anyone with a sawed-off shotgun, silencer, machine gun, etc.

Here is the full text of NC 14-288.8, so we can put this "selective quoting" to rest:

§ 14 288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.
(b) This section does not apply to:
(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14 269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.
(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses.
(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their contracts.
(4) Inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina.
(c) The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" includes:
(1) Any explosive or incendiary:
a. Bomb; or
b. Grenade; or
c. Rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; or
d. Missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one quarter ounce; or
e. Mine; or
f. Device similar to any of the devices described above; or
(2) Any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one half inch in diameter; or
(3) Any firearm capable of fully automatic fire, any shotgun with a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is included within this definition. For the purposes of this section, rifle is defined as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or
(4) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any weapon described above and from which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be assembled.
The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" does not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes, in accordance with Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(d) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class F felony. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1975, c. 718, ss. 6, 7; 1977, c. 810; 1983, c. 413, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1228; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001 470, s. 3.)

The law does not declare silencers illegal until AFTER it has given a long list of people, including "collectors of firearms," to whom the statute does NOT apply in any way shape or form.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Simple point. If they weren't illegal, you would not have to get a special permit to start with.

What like the special permit I have to drive my car? The one I had to pay a fee to get and fill out a few pages of paper work? My car is by far the most dangerous weapon I own. What if school shooters had just been witty enough to run through a crowded city crosswalk? I guess the guy in Japan figured it out. Maybe we should outlaw mufflers so mass murderers utilizing vehicles will be more easily sighted.

Really though, this is pretty out of control.

1.I hate being out doors with hearing protection on. At the range it is ok b/c it is a relatively controlled environment. Last year I was backpacking and a tree fell. I literally stepped between two branches as the 100' tree fell behind me. With hearing protection I may not have heard it as distinctly and been able to move out of the way. I am sure anyone who has been out in the woods much understands what I am saying. I also don't like to be around roads with my hearing impaired.
2.I don't like losing my hearing because I forgot to put my earplugs back in after taking them out to talk to someone for a minute. I wish the US would switch to Europes stance and decide it is impolite to shoot without a suppressor.
3.I don't like my neighbors to have to listen to me shoot. If they run a chainsaw all day it annoys me, i assume my shooting annoys them.
4.Cheap suppressors destroy accuracy. A well built one absolutely improves it. It also increases velocity.
5.I have no felonies, and only misdemeanor moving violations(speeding).

Like I said before, making an expedient suppressor is far too easy for me to think government restrictions on the item do anything in the first place. A few rolls of TP and some duct tape and you are in business.

Stop letting the TV think for you. Take up someones offer to shoot their gun. I was sold when shooting with the OSU pistol team and one of the guys had one on a Walther p22. Allowed him to practice at an indoor range without hearing protection and for us to have a reasonable conversation while we shot.

 

[ZeroJunk]

What like the special permit I have to drive my car

John, we have been beating this for a while. I suspect most other than enthusiast would consider the comparison between a driving a car and owning something classified under weapons of mass destruction per NC law ludicrous.

 

[SR420]

This thread is very strange indeed.

 

[ZeroJunk]

This thread is very strange indeed.

It's what happens when you go over to another part of the forum and insult a gentleman there which most of us are not who adds a lot of value to the forum which most of us don't.