That's true. However, what I do find is that touching up the older finishes is pretty easy. I've used bluing pens as well as Oxpho Blue, which I recently used on a P228 that needed some love.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Sig vs Walther
- Thread starter Micro man
- Start date
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
People interested in the 320 should read this:
SEPTA police to get new service weapons after Sig pistol accidentally fires
https://whyy.org/articles/septa-pol...istol-accidentally-fires-at-suburban-station/
SEPTA police to get new service weapons after Sig pistol accidentally fires
https://whyy.org/articles/septa-pol...istol-accidentally-fires-at-suburban-station/
We already had a thread about if. Not only that, the incident was investigated by two units of the police force and no fault could be found with the firearm.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Anyone can bring a lawsuit. Whether that lawsuit is justified is another story. Even Walther has had safety recalls on the PPS M2. Now is that the same as the "voluntary upgrade"? No I don't think so, and I admit that the timing of the military fix relative to the civilian fix does make me raise an eyebrow. But we've had quite a few threads about that already. My comments were in response to your post about SEPTA. If you want to move the goalpost that's on you.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
If you haven't bought a gun yet I would suggest if you can rent both. Grabagun has your Walther for $421. I have owned many polymer pistols but only have Walther now. The reset is arguable the best trigger out of the box. Once again if you can rent both, then buy the one you like best. Let us know what you do.
bamaranger
New member
P series
Never owned a Walther. But I was paid to walk beside a SIG P220 for about 20 yrs, and the agency paid to send me to armorers class for the P-series about 4 times. As an armorer, was responsible for about a dozen pistols annually, and armorer inspected a good many more when detailed to other locations.
I found the P-series in all models extremely reliable and exceptionally accurate for a service pistol. I fired and was present for an extreme number of rounds down range in all models and saw VERY few failures. I can't recall any major parts breakage except on the P229/.40 when it first came out, it was bad about blowing extractors, but that could have been an ammo /pressure problem. But seems I remember the replacement extractors, pins and springs were a wee bit different than the original parts.......but I cannot remember just how. We never had another problem with the P229's once we did the ejector assm. swaps however. It was possible to get a wonky magazine in the P220/.45's after extended use on some early pistols, but the MecGar mag solved all that.
If you don't mind the double/single arrangement, the P-series, in my opinion, were the Cadillacs of the double action/decocker autos.
Never owned a Walther. But I was paid to walk beside a SIG P220 for about 20 yrs, and the agency paid to send me to armorers class for the P-series about 4 times. As an armorer, was responsible for about a dozen pistols annually, and armorer inspected a good many more when detailed to other locations.
I found the P-series in all models extremely reliable and exceptionally accurate for a service pistol. I fired and was present for an extreme number of rounds down range in all models and saw VERY few failures. I can't recall any major parts breakage except on the P229/.40 when it first came out, it was bad about blowing extractors, but that could have been an ammo /pressure problem. But seems I remember the replacement extractors, pins and springs were a wee bit different than the original parts.......but I cannot remember just how. We never had another problem with the P229's once we did the ejector assm. swaps however. It was possible to get a wonky magazine in the P220/.45's after extended use on some early pistols, but the MecGar mag solved all that.
If you don't mind the double/single arrangement, the P-series, in my opinion, were the Cadillacs of the double action/decocker autos.
bamaranger said:
That mimics my experience and is the main reason I became such a fan 25 years ago. Tens of thousands of rounds and very, very few failures. Did have a broken trigger return spring on one of the 220s, Sig had it back to me within a week. I don't like at all the direction the company has turned in the last 10-15 years but life goes on.
bamaranger
New member
spring
The trigger return spring, especially the older crescent shaped springs, are sort of the Achilles heel of the P-series. SIG addressed that with the looped spring as the P-series matured.
I never saw one break, but a very close inspection was done on the older springs (like with a magnifying glass) when I stripped them down, and once I got a good parts supply, I simply installed a new one on all the pistols I worked on as part of my routine. Not saying one needs an armorer on call for a SIG P, just specified maintenance when required. SIG recommended an armorer cleaning an inspection every 3 yr or 5000 rds. Initially, the agency I worked for did annual inspections, but could not keep (read afford, or, choose to fund) enough armorers afield to maintain that pace.
The trigger return spring, especially the older crescent shaped springs, are sort of the Achilles heel of the P-series. SIG addressed that with the looped spring as the P-series matured.
I never saw one break, but a very close inspection was done on the older springs (like with a magnifying glass) when I stripped them down, and once I got a good parts supply, I simply installed a new one on all the pistols I worked on as part of my routine. Not saying one needs an armorer on call for a SIG P, just specified maintenance when required. SIG recommended an armorer cleaning an inspection every 3 yr or 5000 rds. Initially, the agency I worked for did annual inspections, but could not keep (read afford, or, choose to fund) enough armorers afield to maintain that pace.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Wow, just read your post and got a good chuckle at your comment about the bleak future of the Beretta APX. Ya just got to love the internet.
I just checked and Bass Pro shops has it at $329.00. Most definately will be getting a Beretta APX Centurion. Fantastic quality and great shooters. A fine pistol like that at that price is a steal.
Thanks for posting.
Last edited:
Agreed. I've owned an APX. I liked it overall, even if I eventually sold it. The reality is it doesn't seem to sell well. The market is saturated with polymer framed striker fired pistols and it's not easy to get a good foothold.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
wild cat mccane
New member
So you are suggesting the OP gets an APX because it has a better trigger than the PPQ? Can you go ahead and post that as a fact you believe?
No. Beretta did drop the price because of the APXs total units moved--not many. Only one agency (police) in the US issues the APX--the town where Beretta is based in. Sorry you weren't aware of that?
There are no quality issues in any of the major manufactures. I mean...that's what makes them major manufactures...I didn't say the quality stunk.
I just said the APX trigger just sucks. That's all I said. Anything else was just bad reading...
Everything I said about the VP9 and PPQ prices can be proven using the gun.deals price history.
If this is the APX use in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_APX#Users)...
On Beretta's financial trouble, look at Beretta's own graph for markets in Italy, US, and EU...Beretta is in a financial decline. (this includes all their sub companies (clothing, merchandise, etc), which are doing well...so we can deduce it's firearms tanking)
http://berettaholding.com/en/financial-highlights
Taiwan police use the PPQ. P99? Huge list of major countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P99#Users
Beretta 92 is being dropped (which isn't Beretta's fault), but the PX4 (nicer) and APX aren't being adopted.
And US sells stink?! hum....
So what were you laughing about?
No. Beretta did drop the price because of the APXs total units moved--not many. Only one agency (police) in the US issues the APX--the town where Beretta is based in. Sorry you weren't aware of that?
There are no quality issues in any of the major manufactures. I mean...that's what makes them major manufactures...I didn't say the quality stunk.
I just said the APX trigger just sucks. That's all I said. Anything else was just bad reading...
Everything I said about the VP9 and PPQ prices can be proven using the gun.deals price history.
If this is the APX use in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_APX#Users)...
On Beretta's financial trouble, look at Beretta's own graph for markets in Italy, US, and EU...Beretta is in a financial decline. (this includes all their sub companies (clothing, merchandise, etc), which are doing well...so we can deduce it's firearms tanking)
http://berettaholding.com/en/financial-highlights
Taiwan police use the PPQ. P99? Huge list of major countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P99#Users
Beretta 92 is being dropped (which isn't Beretta's fault), but the PX4 (nicer) and APX aren't being adopted.
And US sells stink?! hum....
So what were you laughing about?
Last edited:
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I am not suggesting the OP buy a thing. And Many folks love the APX trigger. Very good reviews. Go to the Beretta forum and find out for yourself. I know you Are a Walther Fanboy, but triggers are for the most part subjective.
Do not be sorry that I was or am not aware of what any police agency did what. I do not care what police agency's do, how they bid etc. Really could care less.
Many might think the Walther triggeris not for them So what? And have news for ya, not everyone is a Walther Fan. Many are not. They are fine guns, yes, but also not on the most popular list. (Which should mean nothing to even you)
Do not be sorry that I was or am not aware of what any police agency did what. I do not care what police agency's do, how they bid etc. Really could care less.
Many might think the Walther triggeris not for them So what? And have news for ya, not everyone is a Walther Fan. Many are not. They are fine guns, yes, but also not on the most popular list. (Which should mean nothing to even you)
Last edited:
What exactly is your point? You have abandoned the argument for the trigger entirely once you state it is subjective. If it is subjective than a stated opinion on it must be valid.
Are you objecting the the drop in price being related to sales data?
NO ONE called your (apparently?) favorite gun a piece of junk. They noted there was a major price drop. This is likely indicative of not hitting sales goals.
I happen to not like Walther pistols - the S+W alliance kind of turned me off which is odd because I generally like classic German firearms and like S+W. A Beretta Cheetah is on a my short list so I guess I like the brand. That said I'm still trying to figure out what you are attempting to convince people of.
Last edited:
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I have no inside information about any manufacturers sales figures. Sorry you missed the point about the triggers. And if you cannot understand what subjective means they I certainly cannot help you. Some like the Walther some don't. Vice versa. Some folks like a short reset, some don't. Some folks like ligher triggers and on and on and on.
Lol, hardly objecting to a lower price, heck I love that, you must have missed that one as well. A lot of great deals going on right now. The market does seem stagnant, but you would know more about this than me. If they over produced products, or any number of reasons, again I could not tell you.
Have a Happy New year and may God Bless. Hope you get that Beretta. Tell us how you like it. Look forward to hearing from you when you do. Thanks for the post. I enjoyed your point of view.
Last edited: