SIG Sauer: The Break Up. Updates.

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Were I in the OP's shoes, I would not sell this pistol as a complete firearm. I just wouldn't. You can put all the "AS IS", "NO LIABILITY ASSUMED" clauses that you want in a private sale agreement. That will not prevent someone from bringing a civil suit were the pistol to have a mechanical failure. You might well win the suit because of those warnings, but you'll still be out the time and money it took you to fight the suit in the first place. For a few hundred dollars? It's not worth it to me personally.

You could sell it to a shop and have them assume the liability, but what if the poor person buying that pistol has it go out of commission when he/she needs it? I won't knowingly sell a defective pistol to a store/person for that reason.

Now some might say, "Well that's why SIG should have done something in the first place!" SIG has legally wiped their hands of this issue with their warranty wording. The onus is now on Constantine as the current owner who has been made aware of the issue. Now were something to happen to the OP he could also bring a civil suit, but as in the first example he might well lose. However, unlike a private citizen it really wouldn't cost SIG that much in the grand scheme of things.

From what I can see, the situation sucks. There's no getting around it. Either part it out or keep it for whatever. Or sell it to Lohman since he seems so interested.
 
I don't see there being any risk of a civil suit either way, anyways.

We can't give Sig a clean slate while condemning Constantine, should he choose to sell it.

The whole theme of responses in this thread has been basically, "Welp, that's the risk when you buy a used gun! hue hue hue!"

So if Sig has no responsibility, I fail to see any logic behind blaming the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th owner.
 
You don't have to be legally correct to bring a civil suit, that's what you're missing. Plenty of civil suits are brought that are lost. And if we go your route and say that SIG is responsible, then Constantine would also be responsible were he to sell a knowingly defective pistol to another person (unless you're going for the two wrongs make a right approach). I'm not saying he should be held liable, I am saying that it's not a prevention for more trouble down the road. I'd also argue that SIG didn't know it was defective when they first sold it. Maybe they should have, but we don't have evidence that they did know. Constantine does know.

I get that the two of you are pissed over SIGs response and can't fathom people not being otherwise. That doesn't change reality though. Sell a knowingly defective pistol or part it out. Pretty much the choices.


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Bruce Gray > Franken Mauser.
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You came to us, buddy.

If you don't want discussion, you're in the wrong place.

Why not get a second opinion from another good gunsmith?


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Even though I still maintain that you're overreacting to damage that is not as bad as you're claiming...

You can't be mad at Ford for denying warranty service, after you buy a 3 year-old Explorer and have "the Ford guy" down the street tell you that the first owner had it poorly repaired after driving into a brick wall.
 
I'd also argue that SIG didn't know it was defective when they first sold it. Maybe they should have, but we don't have evidence that they did know. Constantine does know.
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I do recall them saying something to effects of a new batch of 2010's (which is what mine is) having this type of issue... I don't know if that's enough weight though. It was over the phone. Remember, this has been going on for 5 months now. I don't recall if Bruce said this or SIG said this to me on the phone at one point. Sorry, memory fails me at the moment. A lot of talking went on over the phone. They did piece this gun together and it did leave as a CPO. I'm so sorry I forgot to mention that.

I had the original Elite Dark that was before this one that I had sold. It had the combat sights and all. This one didn't have combat sights and it came with a threaded barrel and Hogue grips. SIG Sauer knew that from the serial number alone when I had initially called and they weren't made aware of that.


Maybe they did know something was up then? Why would they have that information? Maybe it was CPO'ed and it slid through?
 
I tried to follow this thread (and the prior thread). What I can't seem to find is exactly what Sig said the problem was and what their excuse is/was for not fixing it?
 
They pretty much said that the gun is too old and I am not the first owner. And they told me to sell it for parts. I can pretty much quote them on saying I thought I pretty much have no options. That is what people are misinterpreting with my thread. If you purchase a Sig Sauer that is used you have zero support from the manufacturer. You don't even have words of remorse. And they do not even tell you that they do not touch any used guns. They'll gladly take them in for modifications. But nothing else that has to do with them pulling money out of their pockets. I was honestly expecting some form of positivity. I have dealt with Glock, Smith & Wesson, and I've had friends who have had great luck with Springfield Armory. Regardless of the gun being new or used or if you're the first time owner or not. This kind of treatment towards customers is not a company I want to stand behind.
 
Just a thought that you mentioned it as CPO and used quotes when referencing it as a dark elite.

Is there any way of telling if the frame and slide were original to each other?

If SIG already put this back together once (after a failure for instance) as part of the CPO program it does change my thoughts on it.
 
They did piece this gun together and it did leave as a CPO. I'm so sorry I forgot to mention that.
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So now I'm confused lol. Did you buy it as a CPO from the shop, or was there a guy that bought it first as a CPO and then you bought it after he sold it to the shop? I know the CPO guns have a 1 year warranty (which is still pretty crappy IMO).

I had this thought. Depending on the rep of the store you bought it from, maybe bring it back to that store? Explain what happened, see if they'll give you a fair price in trade or maybe reasonable store credit towards something else. If they don't so be it, but I've honestly had better luck dealing with local stores than manufacturers themselves.
 
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My understanding is the CPO program offers the same lifetime warranty to the original purchaser (of the CPO). Is that correct? I don't think Constantine is the original purchaser of it as the CPO unit or else it would be covered.
 
My understanding is the CPO program offers the same lifetime warranty to the original purchaser (of the CPO). Is that correct?
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No.

Each Factory Certified Pre-Owned SIG SAUER comes with a one-year warranty from SIG SAUER. Only the Factory Certified Pre-Owned SIG SAUER pistols carry a one-year warranty backed by SIG SAUER. Make sure the used Sig pistol you are purchasing is a Certified Pre-Owned SIG SAUER.
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CPOs Sig can be frankenguns but there is no way to tell if the slide is original to the frame. There are not triple serial numbers on Sigs anymore since production was moved to the US.
 
This same subject has been discussed many times, in regards to WWI&WWII 1911 .Military 45s.
Since there is no S/N on their slides just on the frame, and they were rebuilt many times during the wars, there is no way to tell if their frames and slides are their original ones.
 
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I don't really have a dog in the fight, though I do own one Sig. But it's unlikely I'll buy another one, not because of this thread, or because I think Sig isn't a quality manufacturer, but because their offerings are usually just a bit pricier than what I care to spend. For what it's worth, my P229 is one of my favorite pistols, runs great, and I anticipate many years of happy shooting with it.

However, this discussion has been fascinating to me and some of my buddies. Sig is a well-known and well-regarded maker on par with if not on a higher level than Smith and Wesson or Ruger; at least among myself and my fellow shooters. But as one of my buddies noted, if this was a Ruger or a S&W, this would be a non-issue; they would've just fixed or replaced the gun a long time ago. And at least in Ruger's case, the fact that the gun was bought used would also be a non-issue. And Ruger doesn't even have a written warranty . . .

Anyway, for myself, it's a bit of a head-scratcher; I still think Sig is a quality manufacturer, but their 'apparent' stance on this seems a little 'nickel-and dime,' to me.
 
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My opportunity to share a little sunshine in this never ending saga: I called Sig about a problem with my seven (may be older) year old P238, a FedEx label was emailed, the pistol returned and I asked them to replace the night sights as they were barely visible. I was never asked if I was the first owner or how long ago I bought the pistol but the S/N would confirm it being in the first 1000 pistols released. Currently I am waiting on the return of my pistol and will share the results. I have four other Sig's and enjoy them emensely.
 
I don't see any other explanation to SIG knowing it had hogue grips and a threaded barrel from just the serial number alone. Especially since it didn't appear to be a same as advertised Elite Dark but the frame was an Elite Dark.

Just SIG doing SIG things the way SIG knows how lol.

It should be in any day now.
 
Well since Earl Grey has done a few trigger jobs and this makes him the smart one and I'm just a dumb machinist who's only spent 30 years making stuff that flys around with 100s of people on board I'll make you a killer offer.

I'll take it and shoot 1000 rounds thru it and if it has a catastrophic failure I'll give you MSRP for it, but if it's still functional after the 1000 I'll give you the $50 you seem to think it's worth.
 
Let's do this...

Send me 1,000 rounds of whatever 9mm load you want. I'll take it and shoot it all in one day. If the gun hasn't broken, I'll send you the pistol.
 
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