Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?
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Cosmodragoon
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With a 1911, I'd say avoid it in general. The only time I want to be "cocked and locked" is on the belt in a situation where I feel like I'm more likely to need it. For casual carry, riding a desk, or even reasonably quick access from a safe or locker; I feel more comfortable without all that potential energy in line with a round or what is essentially a protruding lever attached to important moving parts. For these purposes, I prefer a full magazine and an empty chamber.
I know you can manually ease down the hammer and go from needing to rack to needing to thumb-cock, but I don't care for that either. Honestly, why bother when other options exist?
The 1911 is time-tested and true to shoot but you can get semi-automatic .45-caliber action in other packages. My favorite is the FNX. It allows the first shot to be taken double-action. If you need that hammer dropped, it has a very safe decocking lever. If you love the cock-and-lock, it lets you do that too. Did I mention that it holds one more round than the high-capacity double-stack 1911s?
I know you can manually ease down the hammer and go from needing to rack to needing to thumb-cock, but I don't care for that either. Honestly, why bother when other options exist?
The 1911 is time-tested and true to shoot but you can get semi-automatic .45-caliber action in other packages. My favorite is the FNX. It allows the first shot to be taken double-action. If you need that hammer dropped, it has a very safe decocking lever. If you love the cock-and-lock, it lets you do that too. Did I mention that it holds one more round than the high-capacity double-stack 1911s?
Therefore, you should ALWAYS positively ID a target before opening fire.You make a statement saying that a half loaded gun is useless. You then go on to say you might not have time to operate the slide. One contradicts the other. If you may not have time to operate the slide then you also may have time to operate the slide. So the statement that a half loaded gun is useless is not logical. A simple question if you had to go up against an armed individual what would you rather have a handgun that took a second to put a round in the chamber and use or a stick. Would people explain the pros and cons and stop coming up with these stick paper weight brick and all the other nonsensical examples.
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I think that's been done several times. Now we're discussing. You know, like what you do on a discussion group.
Here's my pros and cons -
PRO -
- The gun is ready to use
CON -
- Doesn't allow you to make that cool "Rack-ack" sound like in the movies
I've heard some pretty ridiculous reasons for wanting to keep it unloaded in this discussion. I think the most ridiculous of which goes something like "If I keep it ready to fire, I might shoot a family member because when awoken at night, I don't get a good sight picture, I fire at anything that moves"
Exactly what "Safe Gun Handling" course does that kind of thinking come from?
Bottom line, over and over again, you should carry how you want to carry. Some will carry with it ready to fire. Some will carry with an extra, unsafe step required. And if that's what those people need to feel safe, that's what they should do. I hope I'm not around them when they start racking that 1911 slide with the safety off.
I hope that doesn't violate your "paperweight rule".
Sgt Lumpy
Where did someone say they might shoot a family member when awoken at night. I think they said that it happens it was not meant to be top of the list of reasons not to have a round in the chamber.
I would assume that the officer had some training after 40 years in homicide. PS I did not say it should be carried one way or another just that either way is a option.
I would say accidently shooting yourself or someone else as more of a con. A quick search on the net or YouTube you will see plenty of examples of people that thought they were trained managing to shoot themselves. One thing in common with them all they were not operating a slide they had a round in the chamber. I can see the thinking for carrying that way patrolling Afghanistan etc. But as the odds of having to use a firearm are miniscule in the first place not carrying in con one as they call it here will make any difference. The closest I ever came to getting shot was when someone carrying with a round in the chamber fired it in the house the bullet grazing my leg. He thought that he was well trained.
I can show examples of unintended discharges by people carrying with a round in the chamber. You show me examples of unintended discharges by people operating the slide.
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Dragline45
New member
Manta you are impossible to reason with. You keep going along your way of thinking, and just about every firearm instructor on the planet, minus ones in Israel, will go along with the there way, the correct way. Firearms were made to be carried with a round chambered and safely at that. If you don't feel comfortable doing so, that is a lack of proper training.
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orionengnr
New member
I have heard it said that a gun is like a parachute. You will probably never need one, but if you do, your life will depend on it.
Keeping it in a lock box/safe slows down your response time. Do you want to slow it further by accessing an unloaded gun?
For the record, I am not knocking the safe, just stating a fact. For my money, if it is in a safe, it is safe. I don't need to unload it to make it "more safe".
Keeping it in a lock box/safe slows down your response time. Do you want to slow it further by accessing an unloaded gun?
For the record, I am not knocking the safe, just stating a fact. For my money, if it is in a safe, it is safe. I don't need to unload it to make it "more safe".
I didn't say I did not feel comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber. Also I did not say people should not carry that way I said people should carry what ever way they want.
Yeah what would they know. If I wanted to carry without a round in the chamber the fact that the Israelis are happy to carry that way is good enough for me. PS Why do you think the Israelis adopted this method of carrying. ? Why do you think most militaries carry without a round in the chamber unless in combat. Its very simple there are more negligent discharges when carrying with a round in the chamber, this applies to civilians as well.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
manta49 said:
You know, lots of people who passed driver safety and were trained in driving get in accidents. One thing in common with all of them was they all had fuel in the gas tank when it happened. I bet if we stopped people from fueling up their vehicles until right before they needed to actually use it, it would be about as effective as your suggestion in reducing accidents.
I don't own a 1911 type pistol (yet), but I wouldn't dream of keeping or carrying a semi for SD without one in the chamber. The reasons are not that hard to fathom if one spends any time seriously thinking about it.
I prefer DAO or SA/DA pistols and revolvers with long enough trigger pulls that I know are unlikely to go off without a conscious effort on my part. That is all the safety I need, besides what is between my ears.
I prefer DAO or SA/DA pistols and revolvers with long enough trigger pulls that I know are unlikely to go off without a conscious effort on my part. That is all the safety I need, besides what is between my ears.
Dragline45
New member
Then why are you defending it so adamantly?
I think there are pros and cons to both ways of carrying. What irritates me is when people post that its their way or no way, and go on to say that if someone is happy carrying without a round in the chamber that they are not properly trained etc. People can carry whatever way they want they are the ones that have to face the consciences of their decision good or bad. There is giving advice and their is being arrogant thinking that you know everything. Its not very complicated if you carry with a round in the chamber you are more likely to have a niglaint discharge if you don't have a round in the chamber it can't happen. knowing that then make your decision.
I replied to that in post 68.
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Apparently a lot of people seem to disagree with that. Is it not reasonable to assume and allow others to have the viewpoint that there are no PROs to carrying the thing empty? Just because one person believes there are pros and cons, doesn't mean others have to concede that there are pros and cons.
EVERYTHING posted on a board of this nature is opinion of the poster. I'm pretty sure nobody here is telling you that you must carry it cocked and locked.
Sgt Lumpy
It's much easier if your a professional Military or LEO always holding full sized weapons at bay to keep them with loaded with chamber empty. Totally different if your a citizen CCW holder with a small .380acp in the pocket.
There are different needs, for different situations, for different people, in different places.
I don't see why this thread needed to turn into a slug-fest.
Fair point but that's not why they do it. Its to cut down on the number of negligent discharges. So they think helping prevent negligent discharges outweighs the benefit of the extra second that it takes to put a round in the chamber. I for one am not going to be arrogant enough to discount the experience of the Israelis in these matters.
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