Onward Allusion
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I prefer double-action, safety off (if applicable), and round in chamber. Just pull the trigger and be done with it. Just make sure you have a good holster.
Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?
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Bartholomew Roberts
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Personally, I don't see the point in keeping the 1911 cocked and locked in a safe. I don't see a problem with it; I just don't see the logic. A handgun is less powerful and less accurate than most any other firearm. Its one big advantage is that it is convenient to carry and easier to conceal. If you aren't going to make use of that advantage and just plan to leave it locked up in a safe in the house, then why not lock up a long gun of some type and get the better power and accuracy?
On the other hand, if we are talking about a carry handgun that is being stored over night, then I suggest it be carried with a round in the chamber. I can find you several shooting incidents that started with the good guy taking rounds to his hands or otherwise being unable to chamber a round. Likewise, if you plan to carry it with a round in the chamber, then storing it the same way at night makes good sense. The less you handle a gun unnecessarily, the less chances you have to make a mistake. You'll also be able to use ammunition longer without having to worry about setback or primer sensitivity due to repeated clearing and chambering. When I take off my gun at the end of the day, I don't even unholster it usually*. It goes into the safe cocked and locked and holstered.
*However, it gets inspected/cleaned often enough to make sure there is no corrosion or problem with it and it has a finish that is much more resistant to corrosion than bluing or Parkerizing.
On the other hand, if we are talking about a carry handgun that is being stored over night, then I suggest it be carried with a round in the chamber. I can find you several shooting incidents that started with the good guy taking rounds to his hands or otherwise being unable to chamber a round. Likewise, if you plan to carry it with a round in the chamber, then storing it the same way at night makes good sense. The less you handle a gun unnecessarily, the less chances you have to make a mistake. You'll also be able to use ammunition longer without having to worry about setback or primer sensitivity due to repeated clearing and chambering. When I take off my gun at the end of the day, I don't even unholster it usually*. It goes into the safe cocked and locked and holstered.
*However, it gets inspected/cleaned often enough to make sure there is no corrosion or problem with it and it has a finish that is much more resistant to corrosion than bluing or Parkerizing.
A couple of minor quibbles with the otherwise good post from Mr. Roberts:
The OP said he uses a quick-access box, not a safe. Access is likely faster, and I don't know of a quick-access box for long guns.
And a lot of folks prefer the maneuverability of a pistol over a long gun indoors.
The rest of the post - carrying chambered, minimizing handling, preventing setback - I am completely on board. A 1911 isn't my choice, but the redundant safeties of the design make it very safe in the described situation, it would seem to me.
The OP said he uses a quick-access box, not a safe. Access is likely faster, and I don't know of a quick-access box for long guns.
And a lot of folks prefer the maneuverability of a pistol over a long gun indoors.
The rest of the post - carrying chambered, minimizing handling, preventing setback - I am completely on board. A 1911 isn't my choice, but the redundant safeties of the design make it very safe in the described situation, it would seem to me.
Johannes_Paulsen
New member
@Bart Roberts:
If you're using the handgun for protection at home, and it's locked in a safe, presumably when you want to access it, time will be of the essence.
If you're using the handgun for protection at home, and it's locked in a safe, presumably when you want to access it, time will be of the essence.
It the owner's preference. Personally I think people should leave their guns unchambered unless they know they are about to use their gun. It's just safer.
Sure, sure. "It takes longer having to rack the slide" but sometimes that's all you need to get rid of a threat. The sound of a gun cocking can be enough to stop certain threats. In case it doesn't, you then have a bullet, in the chamber, ready to use, if you need to.
Sure, sure. "It takes longer having to rack the slide" but sometimes that's all you need to get rid of a threat. The sound of a gun cocking can be enough to stop certain threats. In case it doesn't, you then have a bullet, in the chamber, ready to use, if you need to.
My input....
As posted, many TFLers have various valid points about how to store or secure a home defense sidearm. In general, Id have a fully loaded magazine with a empty chamber(safety ON if that is the design).
Some semi-auto pistols like the Ruger SR45 or standard Hi-Power 9x19mm have a magazine safety; which increases the safety/security. The pistol can't fire if the magazine isn't loaded into the firearm.
My new pistol; a M&P .45acp Compact comes w/o the magazine safety feature.
I store it in a gun case with a loaded(5 round) magazine. I plan to buy a S&W factory 10rd PVD treated .45acp magazine then use that(fully loaded).
My current home defense load is the potent MagSafe SWAT .45acp which comes in 10rd boxes. I may buy some top rated Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P .45acp later too.
Some firearm instructors & tactics trainers advise gun owners to leave a round or two off to reduce the tension on the pistol magazine spring. This, to me, isn't bad advice, but most modern firearms & metal components are engineered to last for long periods.
Either way, Id advise any gun owner to check/inspect a home defense weapon often for any problems or damage. A quick check may prevent a lot of issues later,
.
ClydeFrog
As posted, many TFLers have various valid points about how to store or secure a home defense sidearm. In general, Id have a fully loaded magazine with a empty chamber(safety ON if that is the design).
Some semi-auto pistols like the Ruger SR45 or standard Hi-Power 9x19mm have a magazine safety; which increases the safety/security. The pistol can't fire if the magazine isn't loaded into the firearm.
My new pistol; a M&P .45acp Compact comes w/o the magazine safety feature.
I store it in a gun case with a loaded(5 round) magazine. I plan to buy a S&W factory 10rd PVD treated .45acp magazine then use that(fully loaded).
My current home defense load is the potent MagSafe SWAT .45acp which comes in 10rd boxes. I may buy some top rated Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P .45acp later too.
Some firearm instructors & tactics trainers advise gun owners to leave a round or two off to reduce the tension on the pistol magazine spring. This, to me, isn't bad advice, but most modern firearms & metal components are engineered to last for long periods.
Either way, Id advise any gun owner to check/inspect a home defense weapon often for any problems or damage. A quick check may prevent a lot of issues later,
.ClydeFrog
Dragline45
New member
My carry gun for the day and my bedside gun both stay loaded at all times. An unloaded gun is an expensive paperweight.
The time it takes for you to rack that slide is enough for someone to get the jump on you and end your life.
The time it takes for you to rack that slide is enough for someone to get the jump on you and end your life.
silvrjeepr
New member
I can understand the reasoning why many store their HD gun in condition one, but I don't. My glock nearly never has a round in the pipe carry or otherwise unless I'm about to pull the trigger. Because of this, racking the slide has become second nature to me and a natural part of my draw. Also, it takes nearly zero extra time (for me because i practice this way) since I'm on or close to target by the time the slide returns. Heck, if I were to carry in condition one now, I'd probably eject the first shell on the draw. Either way, practice it the same way you store it and call it a day...
creightonenterprises
Inactive
I would definitely have one in the chamber. I think a lot of it comes down to how you've trained yourself to use your gun. In my hometown there have been a lot of break-ins recently, and the homeowners had to defend themselves with their guns. It really makes a person think when that experience will come calling at your door.
Ludwig Von Mises
New member
Both of my pistols (P95 and CZ75b) have firing pin blocks, as well as relatively heavy double action first pulls.
I live with a couple other people of my age and mental capacity, and my part of the dwelling is always locked tight, and since my roommates know the drill on not doing things like kicking in doors or climbing through windows, I keep one in the chamber of everything except the AK, as I have never trusted those safeties. The P95 has one in the tube, hammer down, safety off (as well as that nifty ruger trigger-pressure activated firing pin disconnect) and the CZ has one in the tube, hammer half, safety off.
I figure if I ever run out on both of those and have to use the VEPR, well, hopefully the ridiculously loud slam of the bolt will encourage the seemingly bulletproof burglar to go back to the halfway house. Better than a 308 spontaneously going off in my ear while I sleep, due to earthquake, or some other act of god.
I suppose thats why I've always been uncomfortable with traditional 1911's, besides the mag capacity, the idea of carrying cocked and locked with no double action litmus test so to speak, is a recipe for disaster. To wake up in the night and pull the 14lb P95 double action takes full awareness and stock in the situation, while I'd probably end up throwing hot lead at a stray cat in my trash cans if it were simply a matter of a 3 or 4lb single action hair trigger pull. Thats the only reason i keep one in the chamber, because it is double action. Carrying, however, is different. Ask your local sheriff if he has one in the chamber, he will surely cackle.
Now, that being said, in many places where tensions are high, but lethal defense is beyond last resort, a chambered round is one of the parts in a confrontation. A border guard I knew in Israel always carried with an empty tube, as the his simple act of producing a gun (he was particular to the standard issue 92's) and racking the slide usually ended the confrontation almost immediately. Also, he said, he didn't want to shoot himself in the ass, which is where most IDF carry their pistols, if they are officers or guards of some sort that is.
But for one's bedside table? Especially someone with kids/dogs or one of you old timers that takes Ambien to sleep? Please, don't. Or at least get a DA gun. Theres a reason many cops swear by them, even staple gun DAO's.
I live with a couple other people of my age and mental capacity, and my part of the dwelling is always locked tight, and since my roommates know the drill on not doing things like kicking in doors or climbing through windows, I keep one in the chamber of everything except the AK, as I have never trusted those safeties. The P95 has one in the tube, hammer down, safety off (as well as that nifty ruger trigger-pressure activated firing pin disconnect) and the CZ has one in the tube, hammer half, safety off.
I figure if I ever run out on both of those and have to use the VEPR, well, hopefully the ridiculously loud slam of the bolt will encourage the seemingly bulletproof burglar to go back to the halfway house. Better than a 308 spontaneously going off in my ear while I sleep, due to earthquake, or some other act of god.
I suppose thats why I've always been uncomfortable with traditional 1911's, besides the mag capacity, the idea of carrying cocked and locked with no double action litmus test so to speak, is a recipe for disaster. To wake up in the night and pull the 14lb P95 double action takes full awareness and stock in the situation, while I'd probably end up throwing hot lead at a stray cat in my trash cans if it were simply a matter of a 3 or 4lb single action hair trigger pull. Thats the only reason i keep one in the chamber, because it is double action. Carrying, however, is different. Ask your local sheriff if he has one in the chamber, he will surely cackle.
Now, that being said, in many places where tensions are high, but lethal defense is beyond last resort, a chambered round is one of the parts in a confrontation. A border guard I knew in Israel always carried with an empty tube, as the his simple act of producing a gun (he was particular to the standard issue 92's) and racking the slide usually ended the confrontation almost immediately. Also, he said, he didn't want to shoot himself in the ass, which is where most IDF carry their pistols, if they are officers or guards of some sort that is.
But for one's bedside table? Especially someone with kids/dogs or one of you old timers that takes Ambien to sleep? Please, don't. Or at least get a DA gun. Theres a reason many cops swear by them, even staple gun DAO's.
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Ludwig Von Mises
New member
By the nature of spring mechanics, springs are only worn out from repeated tensioning and loss of that tension, not from just the application of tension over a period of time. Same argument comes up whenever people balk about leaving guns with the slide locked back.
The idea that leaving mags loaded or guns locked back has any effect on the spring is akin to believing that leaving a car on the ground for an extended period of time without moving will eventually wear out the coil/leaf springs. If this were true, we would all need a lift in our driveways for when we went to sleep.
Surprising how much installing rich kids coilovers can teach you about unrelated things.
I got a Ruger P95 in October, bought 6 extra mags the same day, have had all six of them loaded since the day I got them (MECGAR mags) and I just checked one, spring is near as stiff as the day I got it. The two that have softened are the two mags that came with the gun, which have seen probably 1200 rounds each.
However, if you are talking about the tension that interferes with feeding, this is typical of mags that have not been completely broken in. A properly broken in mag (the two that feel the softest of my 8) feeds much more reliably than a stiff, new one, regardless of whether one of them is full or not.
All I will say to that - famous last words. Saw a buddy lose a piece of his kitchen floor, and a washing machine in the basement off of that idea. Nothing crazy, but an M4 blast in a tiny kitchen and a visit to the audiologist later, "not loaded" doesn't exist to me.
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Could someone please come up with another saying to describe an unloaded firearm. A unloaded firearm is not a paperweight or a brick or all the other the things people describe them as. A unloaded firearm or more correctly described as a loaded firearm without a round in the chamber. Is a firearm that will take a few seconds to put a round in the chamber and use if people are happy with that that's their decision.
That's why you make sure their is a bullet in it before you want to use it.
RedBowTies88
New member
If I was going to use a 1911 I would certainly keep it in condition one. For the sole reason of 8 rounds being better then 7.
Now for my cz i'm not to worried about that 16th round because if the first 15didn't do it I'm in a serious predicament.
Now for my cz i'm not to worried about that 16th round because if the first 15didn't do it I'm in a serious predicament.
Really? Then with a chambered gun, the time it takes to raise the sights will also be too slow. Or the BG would be close enough to turn your loaded AND chambered pistol on you And you'll be dead. If the BG is close enough that you don't have enough time to rack your slide, you're probably screwed anyway.
If you keep your doors locked and hear someone breaking in you'll have more than enough time to rack a slide. If you don't have time then the BG is too close and you'd probably be better suited with a knife anyway. We're talking about a fraction of a second here, and I know in panic situations that counts, but really, if you're cutting it that close where you can't chamber a round before the BG reaches you, then other parts of your home security are flawed and a gun wont be of much help.
What you are suggesting is that someone should leave a loaded chambered pistol, with the safety off, within reach of their bed, to be safe from a BG. Any other configuration would "take too long" as you stated before, you wouldn't have enough time to rack the slide. And with a time space so narrow, the BG would probably be within arms reach of your loaded gun, if you didn't hear him break in and don't have time to rack the slide.
It's either loaded and chambered, ready for me to pull the trigger, or it's unloaded and being cleaned. Any condition inbetween begs the question "why?". Is it "safer" not having a round chambered? No. It still won't fire unless you pull the trigger at the very least. In most autos you also have to de-activate one or more safeties.
I don't know what anyone would plan on doing with it that's unsafe with the round chambered that would be any more safe without a round in the pipe.
Maybe you just like racking the slide like in the movies.
Sgt Lumpy
I don't know what anyone would plan on doing with it that's unsafe with the round chambered that would be any more safe without a round in the pipe.
Maybe you just like racking the slide like in the movies.
Sgt Lumpy
SteveBonning
New member
Simulate a situation by setting your alarm to 3am. Set it to the loudest you can. Next put the 1911 unloaded onto the nightstand. I must emphasize safety and insist you check it twice to make sure its unloaded. Next wake up to the alarm and see how you handle it. Some folks may be able to make it work at 3am while others may fumble. This is why I say revolver.
This is a smart way to help decide whether or not to have a round in the chamber. It's all a matter of training and personal preference; Training first.
This is a smart way to help decide whether or not to have a round in the chamber. It's all a matter of training and personal preference; Training first.
Family members have being shot people mistaking them for intruders. I doint know about most people but I am not on the ball when woken in the middle of the night. So maybe the few seconds to load the firearm would give me time to make sure it was a real threat and not some family member going to the toilet. As others have said if a intruder can get that close to you in your house quick enough that you have not time to load a firearm then its not the firearm that's the problem its your house security that needs looked at.
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