You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Should I buy the 9mm or .40?
- Thread starter veamon
- Start date
CUBAN REDNECK
New member
It depends...
Yes, it depends on the weapon, the shooter and other intangibles. The 9MM Euro-pellet is a good proven round, which only has gotten better over the years. The .40 S&W is also an extremely capable round. I have both, in different pistol makes. I don't like .40 in a Glock, but I DO like it in a Beretta and FNP. I like the 9MM in a Glock and a CZ. Either way you win with today's bullet technology.
Yes, it depends on the weapon, the shooter and other intangibles. The 9MM Euro-pellet is a good proven round, which only has gotten better over the years. The .40 S&W is also an extremely capable round. I have both, in different pistol makes. I don't like .40 in a Glock, but I DO like it in a Beretta and FNP. I like the 9MM in a Glock and a CZ. Either way you win with today's bullet technology.
9x19
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/40s&w.htm
As I stated in my first post. With modern SD ammo, difference in 'stopping power' is fairly negligible. Tried to go out of my way to keep from 'cherry picking' data. Muzzle energy isn't everything.
Speer Gold Dot JHP 8.0 g (124 gr)
400 m/s (1,310 ft/s) 640 J (472 ft·lb)
Expansion: 18 mm (0.70 in)
Penetration: 337 mm (13.25 in
CCI Speer Ammo (Gov. Test) Bare Gelatin Expansion
9mm Gold Dot JHP 115gr 12.8" 0.67"
9mm Gold Dot JHP 124gr +P 13.40" 0.68"
9mm Gold Dot JHP 147gr 14.80" 0.57"
40 S&W Gold Dot JHP 165gr 13.05" 0.65"
45 ACP Gold Dot JHP 185gr 11.95" 0.68"
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/40s&w.htm
As I stated in my first post. With modern SD ammo, difference in 'stopping power' is fairly negligible. Tried to go out of my way to keep from 'cherry picking' data. Muzzle energy isn't everything.
Armed_Chicagoan
New member
Not sure where you get those numbers from, Speer only claims 1220 fps from its 124 gr 9mm Luger +P. Your numbers sound like they're from an SBR or something.JD0x0 said:Speer Gold Dot JHP 8.0 g (124 gr)
400 m/s (1,310 ft/s) 640 J (472 ft·lb)
That's what was posted. Could've been a 5'' barrel or just a particularly fast barrel. I have found several loads which claim to be standard pressure at roughly ~1250FPS with a 124 grain bullet. 1310FPS is within tolerance. 60FPS. There have been larger variances recorded just by holding a gun more firmly or loosely. And those ~1250fps loada seems to be within SAAMI pressure specs, and not +P or +P+. I assume if you worked that load safely up to a +P or even +P+ level it'd be reaching 1300fps easily.Not sure where you get those numbers from, Speer only claims 1220 fps from its 124 gr 9mm Luger +P. Your numbers sound like they're from an SBR or something.
Just because the Speer load is +P doesn't mean it's as fast as you're going to get a 124 grain gold dot. I have seen several +P loads that were slower than standard pressure max loads. +P just means over SAAMI max pressure, that can be achieved by using a faster powder, for example, while not gaining any velocity over a standard pressure load. Maybe Speer using a faster burning 'low flash' powder, which gains less velocity, but reduces muzzle blast. Moving to '+P' levels may have been their way of getting the bullet to a more impressive velocity, while using that powder, to avoid excessive muzzle blast..
Also, if you notice, there's a second 124 grain gold dot posted, no velocity is given, but I'm going to assume it was the +P factory load @ 1220FPS, anyway, performance was not that different between the two, if you compare them. So even if that first number is a bit optimistic, there is a more 'real world' test shown, which shows similar performance. The slower gold dot only lost .02'' of expansion and gained about .2'' of penetration.
Last edited:
Not only you should get a .40 S&W but get one that you can buy the 9mm barrel, like the Sig P226. Start shooting with the 9mm to get the basic gun handling techniques down.
Get a FULL SIZE gun for range use & for HD. Don't even think about carrying until you have master the discipline of shooting and gun safe handling.
Later, when you "graduate" to the .40 S&W, you will have the same platform and you will have a faster learning curve ( and spend less money than buying a brand new gun )
Get a FULL SIZE gun for range use & for HD. Don't even think about carrying until you have master the discipline of shooting and gun safe handling.
Later, when you "graduate" to the .40 S&W, you will have the same platform and you will have a faster learning curve ( and spend less money than buying a brand new gun )
Last edited:
DannyB1954
New member
The .45 ACP hardballs killed more enemy in Korea and the Pacific than anything today
In Europe the 9mm probably killed more than the 45. When an Army uses a particular caliber, more people die from it than the calibers that are not being used. Funny how it works that way.
Seal Team 6 may use bla bla bla, but you are not them. Get what you shoot the best, and forget about what the "experts" here like. I have 9mm, 40S&W and 38Spcl. that I carry. I don't own a .45ACP as I did not shoot it well while I was in the military.
Last edited:
Wow, I am very pleased to see the Huge support for 9mm over .40.
When I was really into firearms a few years back and posting on this forum a lot, .40 was much more supported and I never understood it.
All pistol rounds when loaded to the max with modern bullet technology produce negligible differences in "Stopping power". It is almost comical to see the huge debates over 50 ft lb of energy or 1 inch of penetration or .1 inch of expansion. And, always has been. These are not rifle rounds where the difference between calibers can be 500-1000 ft.lb of energy.
With pistol rounds for "stopping power" IMHO it comes down to shot placement. What round allows me to have more rounds in the magazine, better control, and practice more?
For me, that is 9mm and why I have always chosen 9mm above the others.
There are limitations to this, of course. No one thinks carrying .22lr is a viable defense round as it is well below the performance of the calibers being discussed. However, a .22lr conversion kit for your pistol is a great way to get more trigger time with low cost! I finally ordered a Advantage Arms .22lr conversion kit for my Glock 19!
Although with .22lr availability now being one of the hardest calibers to come by and the cost has nearly doubled since I used to shoot a lot, maybe it is less viable of a practice round.
YMMV.
When I was really into firearms a few years back and posting on this forum a lot, .40 was much more supported and I never understood it.
All pistol rounds when loaded to the max with modern bullet technology produce negligible differences in "Stopping power". It is almost comical to see the huge debates over 50 ft lb of energy or 1 inch of penetration or .1 inch of expansion. And, always has been. These are not rifle rounds where the difference between calibers can be 500-1000 ft.lb of energy.
With pistol rounds for "stopping power" IMHO it comes down to shot placement. What round allows me to have more rounds in the magazine, better control, and practice more?
For me, that is 9mm and why I have always chosen 9mm above the others.
There are limitations to this, of course. No one thinks carrying .22lr is a viable defense round as it is well below the performance of the calibers being discussed. However, a .22lr conversion kit for your pistol is a great way to get more trigger time with low cost! I finally ordered a Advantage Arms .22lr conversion kit for my Glock 19!
Although with .22lr availability now being one of the hardest calibers to come by and the cost has nearly doubled since I used to shoot a lot, maybe it is less viable of a practice round.
YMMV.
Pond James Pond
New member
So this means if you put no thought into it, you would end up with a .40SW.
You beat me to it!!
I don't see how data from the Pacific and Korea is relevant now, especially with all the ammo development that has taken place. I bet 9mm killed quite a few in Europe...
Given how ineffective pistols are, by comparison to rifles, that for me it still comes down to capacity and manageability.
The one shot business is so dependent on other factors. An aimed shot by any would be just as likely lethal as any other.
I like the .40 best, even over 9mm and .45 ACP, but have nothing against any of them. If someone wants to pack a 5 shot 38 Special and someone else only feels fine with 20rds of 9mm +P+, then fine, it doesn't matter really and trying to convince them otherwise is fruitless.
I get why many like the 9mm, and I admit that it's a very logical choice. I can say the .40 is more powerful because it is, but that doesn't make the 9mm ineffective. It's almost like arguing which car goes 55 MPH better, a 200 HP one or a 300 HP one, it's a silly argument because they both can go 55. The 9mm, .40 and .45 (or any other service cartridge) all have the ability to incapacitate with one shot or possess potential to fail with multiple poorly placed ones.
Why someone chooses what they do is their choice, it's neither right nor wrong but hearing their opinion as to why is part of what makes reading these threads somewhat entertaining.
I get why many like the 9mm, and I admit that it's a very logical choice. I can say the .40 is more powerful because it is, but that doesn't make the 9mm ineffective. It's almost like arguing which car goes 55 MPH better, a 200 HP one or a 300 HP one, it's a silly argument because they both can go 55. The 9mm, .40 and .45 (or any other service cartridge) all have the ability to incapacitate with one shot or possess potential to fail with multiple poorly placed ones.
Why someone chooses what they do is their choice, it's neither right nor wrong but hearing their opinion as to why is part of what makes reading these threads somewhat entertaining.
Proof? And showing a .40 load with higher muzzle energy than a 9x19 doesnt qualify as 'proof.'I can say the .40 is more powerful because it is
I like and have had them both, but shoot and carry 40 (and 45) these days
I like the 40 because of:
- Better barrier penetration (glass/steel)
- An edge in energy over 9mm of 10-15% (Not as much as before, but
there is an edge)
- in ammo crunch time, 40 seems to be much more available
(Less of an issue as I reload these days)
-I am a creature of habit...... (my first "real' pistol was a P226 in 40)
But....... EITHER choice will serve you well
I like the 40 because of:
- Better barrier penetration (glass/steel)
- An edge in energy over 9mm of 10-15% (Not as much as before, but
there is an edge)
- in ammo crunch time, 40 seems to be much more available
(Less of an issue as I reload these days)
-I am a creature of habit...... (my first "real' pistol was a P226 in 40)
But....... EITHER choice will serve you well
Last edited: