Shotguns Outdated?

S

Socrates3000

New member
How many of you out there believe that the shotgun is outdated for protection and that a carbine like a CAR-15, mini-14, Hk-93, etc., or a submachine gun like mp5 can do everything that a shotgun can do and better?

How many of you believe that there are some things a shotgun can do that other guns can't do for protection?

Not trying to start a flame war. I just want to hear the rational behind opposing views.
 
There's a 60+ post thread on GlockTalk on this very subject. Search terms "shotguns outdated" will get you there.

John
 
I'd rather use a good 12 guage pump loaded with buckshot for close quarters. But its all about what kind of situation you might be facing. I dont think shotguns are outdated. I guess personal preference.
 
shotgun outdated?

No way, Jose!

There most certainly IS something the shotgun can do that the others you mention cannot do - like throw twelve .30 caliber pellets at your attacker at the same time. Nothing, but nothing from a small arm equals the devastating stopping power against a human violent aggressor of a shotgun, on a per-shot basis. Sometimes, you only have 1 shot to achieve incapacitation before you're dead, so you'd better make that one shot count. Gimme a 12 ga anyday for producing 'rapid incapacitation'. In that example (00 buck), you multiply your chance of hitting CNS times 12, and multiply blood loss / wound channels times twelve. CNS hits and blood loss is what leads to incapacitation. Incapacitation is what stops an attack.

Not to mention make it 100 times easier to hit flying/moving game over said MP5 or AR15.
 
For inside the house, I'll take a shotgun...

For outside, I'll take a SOCOM 16...

In the vehicle...a 1911...

...different tools for different applications...my friend...;)
 
Well, I suppose that with the introduction of different firearms and capabilities over the years and then, like so many have replied here to your bacic question, it depends on the situation (job) at hand. I can think of a situation in which an old Derringer 2 x barrel would be better than a shotgun - but I try not to spend too much time on this type of thought. In home protection cases there are times when a bar of soap tucked neatley in a dirty sock and delivered to an intruders brian housing group with force and accuracy is not only quicker, and more readily availabe, but is safer to other occupants as well. Won't disturb the neighbors either. They like that.
 
for defending the casa, I like a rifle. Either one of my .30 M1 Carbines or the Bushmaster shorty.
I don't think shotties are outdated at all, but I prefer a rifle.
 
Ask any cop or Moe on "The Simpsons." They'll tell you nothing is more persuasive than that "Ch-CHUK!" of a pump being racked.

You ever see that police video of the two cops pulling over two fugitive brothers? Everybody is less than 3 feet from each other. Everybody unholsters and empties their guns at each other. Everybody misses. Everybody jumps back into their vehicles and the chase resumes.

That would never happen with shotguns!
 
And, also , shotguns are simple the most versitile gun there is . I love em. As the dude at gunsite said; " I like my pistol, but I love my shotgun".
 
I am one that thinks a good carbine all but replaces the shotgun for defense

They are a niche weapon...not obsolete...but they have a much narrower engagement range.

At very close range (HD)there is little/no spread to the pellets

Yes...they are devestating at that range....but so is a carbine

At medium ranges, the patterning helps with hitting your target, but we are not shooting birds here....with a good carbine I can easily get head shots at 50 yds...I don't need a "pattern"

At longer ranges, the spread now becomes a hazard to those other than the target.
 
  1. I reckon the typical smoothbore shotgun has an effective range of 25 yards with shot, and about double that with a slug.
  2. I can't come up with many realistic scenarios where I'd be legally justified in shooting another human being beyond that range.
  3. Within that range, if I only had a chance to get one shot off, I would prefer to send a load of shot or a good heavy slug in the bad guys direction, rather a single bullet from a carbine.
  4. Should I miss, the round from the carbine is going to potentially travel alot further than even a slug from the shotgun, increasing the chance of unfortunate consequences.

So, in my opinion the shotgun is the superior weapon for defensive purposes. War fighting is a different story, of course.
 
"At longer ranges, the spread now becomes a hazard to those other than the target."

Hitting a pie plate at 100 or 125 yards or so shouldn't be a problem using slugs. Forgot about the slugs, didn't you? :)

John
 
HD: Shotgun territory. The shotgun owns it. Nothing else within 30 feet will deliver as much punch. So what it only spreads 2''. 9/12/30 (whatever your loaded with) is better than a single .223.

SHTF: Firmly belongs to the carbines. Carbines can be excellent room clearing tools; but for CIVILIAN use, the shotgun still owns this. Carbines are excellent for all reasonable ranges; have the capacity most shotguns do not, and can be easily outfitted with all the rage of gadgits.

The shotgun is a speciality tool in my opinion. But man, it is good at what it does.

I understand slugs can hit pie plates at 100's of yards too; but if your loading a shotgun with slugs; just use a carbine instead. The shotguns advantage lies in mulitple projectiles causing multiple wounds.
 
I most certainly did not forget about slugs

I didn't say what a shotgun couldn't do(try to remember that).....merely that there was not much it did better than a carbine

You keep pointing out things you can with it do to be as good as a carbine

So ....I can either practice with my carbine

Or practice with both weapons in case some day....some how...I am in a situation within those narrow boundaries where a shotgun functions adequately

Rules HD???

30 ft is a big room in any home....and most shotguns will deliver all the shot and the wad through one ragged hole

Devastating...yes...better than a single round from a carbine...not so much

There was a test tdone and 55gr 5.56x45 rounds were less likely to go through sheetrock/lumber walls than most handgun rounds and all shotgun rounds

The shotgun is not "done"....but it's major claim to fame is that people still cling to the notion that it is some kind of magical weapon that destroys everything in front of it.

I know I used to ...and now everytime someone says how awesome a shottie is for defense I just smile and ask them the same question......

Why......and they trot out the same tired platitudes that we see every time this comes up. None of them are exactly false...but they aren't true just because we have always said them either:D

I eventually realized that a carbine is VERY effective from contact distance to 300 yds.

And despite being real good with my shotgun....I am much better with my carbine

I can chew the head off the target at 50 -100yds..if I want to...or I can make a ragged hole in the middle of it

I can get consistent hits on an ipsc target at 300 yds

I can carry 28 rounds of carbine ammo in my back pocket

(please don't start doing the math with pellet counts or I will ask you to shoot 28 bad guys spaced at 10 ft intervals:D )

I am not trying to convince everyone to pitch their scatterguns......

Just asking people to think

It would probably be easier to get them to ditch the scatterguns;)

Simply ask yourself this....

If you had to hit a 3 inch circle at 50 yds.....life depended on it....which would you choose????

Ok...so exactly why would you choose the less precise weapon
 
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