Shooting in the ??HOUSE??

Do you guys realize that all those WW2/Korea/Vietnam vets didn't use hearing protection? Even the ones who manned artillery?
Yes, a lot of them had some hearing loss-but to your thinking, they all would have walked around stone deaf for the rest of their lives!
Even hunters don't use hearing protection, are all the hunters you know stone deaf? Shooting in a house may or may not be louder than shooting outside. Sheetrock, curtains and furniture absorb a lot of sound. What if you had to shoot outside in an alley between two buildings. Which do you think would be louder?

By all means use hearing protection whenever you can. Not doing so is plain stupid.

If you have to shoot without it, it's OK- you won't be deaf. You're spending way too much time worrying about this.
 
I was in a room when a ND occurred with a 9mm and I could not hear anything for a few minutes. My hearing has been declining over the years but after the incident it's been noticeably worse. One thing I will say, there is nothing more jarring or unsettling than being in a room with an unexpected gun shot.
 
Vietnam vets didn't use hearing protection?
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Pardon me ? What did you say ?

Now that I am in my 60's, I sure wish I would have done a lot more to protect my hearing back in the day....Not so easy when hunting 2 legged creatures, but
amplified protection sure works good now when 4 legged prey is the norm.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Do you guys realize that all those WW2/Korea/Vietnam vets didn't use hearing protection?
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My grandfather was in WW2, and as a result spent the better part of his life either half deaf or with 2 giant hearing aids in his ears as well as a bad case of tinnitus (permanent ringing of the ears). He said throughout the war his hearing progressively got worse.

Bill DeShivs said:
My point is that one or two shots is not going to destroy their hearing.
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Speak for yourself, one shot of .357 magnum and I have permanent ringing in my left ear and high frequency hearing loss in that ear. Until you have to live with permanent ringing of the ears, you don't know how good you had it before.
 
Thanks all and Dragline45, I agree with your post responding to another poster:

"That's besides the point. If you have the time to throw on a pair of electronic hearing pro there is no reason not to. If time is of the essence, then of course don't bother. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.

Take it from someone who has hearing loss and permanent ringing from noise exposure, it's no joke and at times can really effect your quality of life."


I too have the ringing constantly as well as hearing loss or as I refer to it "HarleyEar disease". Hearing is extremely important. At my age of just-turned-70; my wife refers to it as "selective hearing". I personally believe she is speaking in monotone, along with my daughter and granddaughter, and well, all women! :D

I have learned several things here; least is everyone has an opinion and no matter how you describe a question, somebody will always treat you like an idiot for asking "such a stupid question'! The second thing I learned is since I received a set of sound sensitive shooting range muffs, I do hear much better all the little details like the furnace, the traffic on my secondary street, the TV in the other room (volume turned low for everyone else), and so on. If I have the opportunity to put them on in a crises, I believe it will give me a decided advantage. Otherwise as so many have said; save your life not your hearing. Thank you all for your feedback, especially those of you that have been through military service and/or personal protection situations.
 
@JohnKSa, twice in this thread you have said that ringing in the ears is a sign of permanent damage. I'd like to expand on that. The "hiss" that most people hear after exposure to a loud noise is actually a sure sign that the ear is repairing itself. That is the sound of the tiny hairs realigning themselves. It represents a temporary condition. Now if you're referring tinnitus that is different. Tinnitus can be caused by damage to the inner ear for sure usually due to spl, but can be also caused by poor health/diet/medications. I think it's important we define the two. Ringing is a darker/deeper tone... like a note. Hissing is lighter like white noise and could be due high blood pressure etc... After 25 years of pro rock & roll I have learned this the hard way.
 
...twice in this thread you have said that ringing in the ears is a sign of permanent damage.
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Well, sorta... One time I said it, the other time I quoted it from a Johns Hopkins article on hearing damage.
The "hiss" that most people hear after exposure to a loud noise is actually a sure sign that the ear is repairing itself. ... I think it's important we define the two.
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Fair enough. What sources do you have that indicate that tinnitus and a "hiss" in the ears are two distinct symptoms?

There seem to be a number of official sounding sources that explicitly state that "hissing" in the ears is tinnitus.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/understanding-tinnitus-basics
"Tinnitus (pronounced ti-ni-tis), or ringing in the ears, is the sensation of hearing ringing, buzzing, hissing, chirping, whistling, or other sounds. "​

http://www.ata.org/sounds-of-tinnitus
People who experience tinnitus describe hearing different and sometimes variably changing and intertwining sounds like ringing, hissing, static, crickets, screeching, sirens, whooshing, roaring, pulsing, ocean waves, buzzing, clicking, dial tones and even music.​

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/tinnitus.htm
The most common types of tinnitus are ringing or hissing ringing, whistling (high pitched hissing) and roaring (low-pitched hissing).​

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003043.htm
Tinnitus is the medical term for "hearing" noises in your ears when there is no outside source of the sounds.

The noises you hear can be soft or loud. They may sound like ringing, blowing, roaring, buzzing, hissing, humming, whistling, or sizzling. You may even think you are hearing air escaping, water running, the inside of a seashell, or musical notes.​
 
I have Tinnitus and have had to take annual hearing tests at my place of employment for the last 30 years. The sound can range from a ring to for myself, the sound of crickets. Kinda strange to be sitting in my hunting blind in 30 degree weather and hearing nothing but crickets, it's a bit of a pain in the arse but I have dealt with it so long I guess it's become my normal. Phone conversation with a female is probably the worst area of every day communication, do your best to keep what you still have.
 
If there is a single biggest LIE that movies and TV portray about shooting, it is that the sound of gunfire (particularly in and enclosed space) has no effect on the shooter or those around them.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!!!!!

I've had a rifle fired with the muzzle a few inches from my ear. I've been in the back seat of a 67 Mustang when the passenger fired a .357 (gun outside the window, still physically painful!). I lived for some months a few dozen yards behind the firing line of 4, 5, and 6 inch guns (bore diameter, NOT barrel length!)

I had a documented high frequency hearing loss when I separated from the Army. I spend 30+ years working having yearly physicals with hearing tests. I was in the Hearing Conservation program, which included special extra tests.

I was well versed in industrial noise protocols and OSHA standards. I know a little bit about this stuff, from personal and industrial experience.

Gunfire damages unprotected hearing. Its that simple. BUT they damage is sneaky. At first the permanent loss is outside the range one usually notices. As is continues, it reaches the "normal" range and you notice it, then.

Understand that there is temporary damage, and permanent damage. You recover from the temporay deafness, but you never recover completely. Each time you get exposed, when it comes back, it doesn't come all the way back.

I do wonder why in the hearing tests they use the headphones that they do...
You know the ones, look like from the 1950s, solid rubber earpads (not foam) that squash your ear against your head rather than surround it.

When I put on the headphones for my computer, or stereo, with the volume off, they are basically comfortable, and I hear no sound. With the headphones in the hearing test booths, they are uncomfortable, and as soon as I put them on, my ears start ringing, and the tone is exactly the same as one of the test tones!!! WHY do they do that? (use those headphones, I mean, you would think there would be something better...)

If legal in your area, jump thru the legal hoops and put a can on your HD pistol.
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While this does make good sense, and in some parts of the world, I understand suppressors are required for hunting, in the US I wish you luck with a jury.

DO we have any actual documented cases of defensive shootings with a "can" on the gun? How did that play out in court?

In this day and age of fear, if using a handload is a bad idea, because of what the prosecutor will make you look like, what kind of a sick killer will they portray you as if you use a SILENCER!!!???

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it wasn't self defense, it was MURDER! The defendant used a SILENCER so he wouldn't be caught!!!!" I think something like this would be the least to expect.

By all means, use the can, and be our test case. We desperately need to change the public perception of supressors from assassin's tool to what they really are, safety devices for our hearing. Good Luck, and we'll likely see you in 15-20.....less with good behavior, maybe...
 
44Amp,

I am in my place of work's hearing conservation program also, I have work supplied hearing aids (no replacement for the real thing):mad: and have been compenstated for my hearing loss. I tell young people all the time about wearing our supplied hearing protection and I wear mine religously. Trouble for me is, it's kinda like closing the gate after the cow......well you know. Still, in the middle of the night or something close to that, my hearing is going to one of the last things I think about if I suspect an intruder.

Our hearing booth head phones also look like they are from the 1950's, you can hear the people out side the booth B.S.ing while you are in their testing. Things have changed for the better though in the last 30 years.
 
I think the "Ladies and Gentelmen of the Jury" statement 2 posts up is ludicrous. The fact that immediately following said Home Defense shooting, I would call 911 and requested both police response AND medical aid, blows that "i tried to hide it" so far out of the water that no prosecutor would even attempt that line of thought.

Add in the fact that because i had a can on the pistol, i can actually hear and converse with the 911 operator AND responding LEO's is another plus.

40 years ago, using hollowpoint ammo was considered a dangerous legal point for SD/HD
30 years ago, using an auto pistol was viewed the same way

Times (and thought processes) change.

If the shoot is questionable, then hollowpoint, autos or NFA weapons will be additional points for the prosecutor to sway the jury with

If the shoot is a justified one...bad guy kicks in my front door at 2am with a running chainsaw, wearing a hockey mask, screaming he is going to kill us all. Then the fact i had a can on my pistol is not relevant to the case.
 
There's another issue...sight! If the house is dark, the blast from the muzzle will typically briefly blind both the shooter and the assailant. So the second shot is not accurate. A police practice in the dark of the night is to temporarily shoot with eyes closed before each discharge and then opened quickly to identify the assailant.
 
I think the "Ladies and Gentelmen of the Jury" statement 2 posts up is ludicrous.
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It was intended to be "over the top". But we have seen "over the top" things from zealous prosecutors before, and expect to see them again. They can, literally say anything they want, as an argument, and it is up to your defense to convince the jury (most likely made up of people who's grasp of firearms reality begins and ends with a TV or game screen).

Every additional factor even remotely connected to the event in some way can be grist for their mill.

Look at the Zimmerman case, for a recent example. The real facts of the case were that one guy was getting his head beaten against the pavement, and shot the other guy because of it. Look what that got turned into.

If the Chainsaw Massacre guy busts in your door, that's a pretty open and shut case. Anything else, can much more easily be twisted.

Want to see how twisted? They might argue that you used the silencer to commit the "murder", then, realizing you really couldn't get away with it, called the 911 for the police and ambulance, etc, in order to cover up the murder with a claim of self defense....

Prove otherwise.
To the Jury's satisfaction.

For the past 80 years, we have been conditioned to regard machine guns, sawed off shotguns and silencers as the tools of criminals, bad, evil things that must be highly controlled for the public good. That is a serious uphill fight, all in its self. If a shooting goes to court, expect every trick in the book to be thrown at you. Even ones that seem completely unreasonable. They will throw everything against the proverbial wall, and gladly take everything that sticks. If you aren't totally "Teflon" in the eyes of the jury, you are in trouble.
 
If there is a single biggest LIE that movies and TV portray about shooting, it is that the sound of gunfire (particularly in and enclosed space) has no effect on the shooter or those around them.
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I was surprised in the cartoon comedy Archer that there is a running joke of Archer having tinnitus from firing so many guns, explosions, or other agents firing guns too close to his head with no hearing protection. Often in the show when he fires guns in small rooms they play a loud ringing to simulate what Archer hears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tekhh7Iy-sM
 
this is not to try to argue the point of a jurors eye view of a use of suppressors, just a question. how many shooting that occured from a break-in from an armed intruder have ended in prosecution of the home-owner? i know sd shooting that happen outside the home are always gray nd hard to figure out concrete facts. but i have never seen an instance of an armed intruder, not related to the homeowner, getting shot by said homeowner after making entry into their home. does that actually happen? i know here in georgia, they don't even make it to court, much less questioning the gun type/ammo

maybe it's a common thing, i am just not hearing these cases, please inform me if it's the case and i may change my tactics
 
It was intended to be "over the top". But we have seen "over the top" things from zealous prosecutors before, and expect to see them again. They can, literally say anything they want, as an argument, and it is up to your defense to convince the jury (most likely made up of people who's grasp of firearms reality begins and ends with a TV or game screen).
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I could convince them of the importance of sound suppressors fairly easy. I'll have them sit in a room for an hour with a machine playing a high pitched ringing and see how quick it drives them crazy. Because that's what noise induced tinnitus is.
 
I have very dumbly discharged firearms in small rooms when I was younger. I've been subjected to .40, .357, 7.62x25, and 12 gauge. It is stupid to do willingly, but you will live. I suffer hearing loss from playing in loud bands my whole life so it probably doesn't affect me in ways it would most others. The magnum really punches my ticket and will leave me with complete temporary hearing loss for about half an hour.

My recommendation is to keep some earpro real close that you could likely get to if you decide you have the time in an engagement. Guns are discharged frequently in homes across America and in a self defense scenario, I never hear of anyone focusing on the high decibel levels of disrcharges. Fear not your ears but your life itself.
 
Have to chime in. Topic brings back many happy memories from my youth. My dad had a metal fabrication shop and made a bullet trap with sand on the bottom. We spent many winters shooting targets with our Ruger MK1 22 in our homes basement in the 1960's. (Had to sweep up sand after wards too.)
Beings it was a small town he had a rather large shop and I would shoot larger calibers handguns there in a trap by the steel rack. The local police would even stop by some days to pop off rounds in the winter.
Ah the happy memories. My dad lived 95 years and the shooting never hurt our health or well being.
 
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