Shooting in the ??HOUSE??

Wow! To say the least. Thank you all for your input especially the Medical side. Permanent damage to hearing, if was done by accident or in defense of your loved ones is a fact we will have to accept. We know that and are willing to do so.

My question was based on the common knowledge that guns do make noise and bigger cal guns make more noise, and as such, had anyone had any accident or intended self defense situation in which a gun was used? And my reason for that is twofold:

First, when the movie Dirty Harry and his very famous high powered handgun was displayed, every guy I knew that shot wanted one. When we "want" we justify and in time own it. However, story's came around about discharging in the home is self defense, and statements went out that first; even it you hit the perp, chances are you will also get the next door neighbors kid in bed. Second everyone in the general neighborhood would be deaf.

I didn't know how much of this was / is true and how much was / is hype.

The second reason is that I have heard that after an altercation with a perp, even many police officers had difficulty determining how many shots were fired, as a form of tunnel vision and mindset came into play and you become so very focused, your hearing shuts off, your mind goes into protect mode and boom, its all over. The officer felt at that time the whole process went like ten minutes and the fact was it was only 30 seconds!

Does our mind focus so tightly on the problem at hand to such a degree that we see and hear nothing except pop, pop, pop and its over.
 
With 9mm subsonic loads it is no louder then disconnecting a high pressure air hose. My AAC TiRant 9S is rated hearing safe if shot wet. Dry it reduces the sound to a level that i would not hesitate to use indoors for a defensive shooting.
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My understanding is air leaks are now one of the leading causes of "recordable" hearing loss in shops. Since it is higher frequency than the thumping low frequency noise of a press it is ignored, but the noise of pressurized air can be quite loud.

I specified long term because a sound impulse that is ok for a fraction of a second may not be ok for time at the range or even emptying a full magazine. OSHA long-term exposure is 85db. I don't think any suppressed pistol will be down to that level. Lokking at the SWR site I don't see any indication of the 45 octane being rated for shooting without protection let alone an indication of what standard they might use to rate it as such.

Also, I don't consider the OSHA standards as reliable. OSHA does a fairly good job with immediate risks such as eye injuries, but long term problems such as hearing loss and chemical exposure are not nearly so well regulated. With my work in manufacturing I have realized OSHA is more about creating rules that, if followed, shield employers from litigation than protecting employees.
 
I didn't read all the responses, I didn't want to get side tracked from the question at hand by the OP.

I have been through an indoor shooting in a 1200 square foot house with a Glock 9mm.

I had no ear protection and only one round was fired.

Now here is what happened right after the shot. The dog and I were completely deaf for about 15 minutes. I actually started to worry about my hearing. I am sure there was some damage.

Right after the shot despite my LEO training I was severely disoriented. It took a couple minutes to gather myself.

Once I gathered myself I could deal with the situation. Probably about 2-3 minutes. Once I regained my hearing, there was ringing in my ears for a couple days and any loud noise was irritating including my music!

I still get a chuckle when I see TV shows with shootouts inside small buildings and they are all whispering at each other after a few shots in a small space.

I'm not saying that a shootout couldn't go down, just communication would be loud and difficult. Thus a good set of hand signals.

Hope this helps someone.

Oh, and I also realize the bad guy is not going to let you put on your ears before the action starts. So suck it up, know what will happen and just be prepared!

Mel
 
Noise Induced Hearing Loss is a serious threat to our men and women in the military and law enforcement communities. The ability to hear is crucial to the performance of their duties. Many people have received medical retirement because of Noise Induced Hearing Loss. Much of this hearing loss occurs due to repeated exposure to gunfire, both operationally and in the training environment. According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), any exposure to noise over 140db causes immediate and irreparable hearing loss. Unsuppressed handguns and rifles generally create a muzzle report well above this threshold. Gunfire noise is a “preventable” occupational risk and an unnecessary liability. A silencer can protect against hearing loss.
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I found their claim. It is vague and offers no supporting data. I have no doubt that it drops below 140db, but levels well below 140db can cause hearing damage. 140 is for an instant single exposure. It is certainly much better than not having any protection.
 
Without going in to great detail on it all . .

I wouldn't imagine that letting a round off in the house is going to be too much different than at a smaller indoor range. The indoor range that I shoot at on occasion is probably around 2,000 sq. feet in the firing area. Between that and the main part of the store is a "buffer" area.

I shoot mainly 38 spls. and 9mm. but of course am wearing muffs when at the indoor range. The level of noise from on shot ought to give you a fairly good idea (even though you are wearing muffs) as to what it would be like. One time last year when I was there, it was only me (shooting 38s) and one other gentleman - who happened to be shooting a 44 mag. Even with my muffs on, I found it to be "mildly uncomfortable" and I have about 80% hearing loss in my left ear.ll

Another scenario that I wonder about is firing in an even more enclosed space such as a car. Every once in a while (and quite frequently) you hear about a "car-jacking" gone "bad" when someone attempts to car-jack at gun point only to come face to face with the owner who is armed and still sitting in the car as they fire. Even with a door open, I have to believe that has to hurt even more!
 
if you have to rip off some rounds inside to save your life you might hear some of them. when your body gets an adrenaline dump it tends to shut down peripheral things and focus very narrowly on other things.

if you've hunted you know how loud your rifle is simple zero'ing it when you're calm, yet when you make that shot for real and your heart is racing and your breathing changes.... its hardly that loud.
 
I wouldn't sweat it too much, shoot what your familiar with. Chances are if your a Harley guy and tune them or work on them, (I have) you've exposed your friends and loved ones to allot of noise already. My effectiveness with my weapon would be my biggest concern. And as ^^Jerry said, adrenaline does some strange things when you shoot, although this doesn't address your family members in the same room or house.
 
...firing a .357Sig outdoors is not that bad...
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Your admission that it caused your ears to ring means that it was bad enough to cause permanent damage.
And we have some finger-wagging nannies.
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Providing information that may help someone avoid damaging their hearing through an ill-advised experiment is an excellent way to use this forum and forums like it.
We have another experience...
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We have so far on a two page thread:

1. Experience of firing a .357Sig outdoors that resulted in hearing damage.
2. Three experiences of firing a .357Mag indoors that resulted in hearing damage.
3. One experience of firing a 9mm indoors that resulted in hearing damage.
4. One experience of firing a .38spl indoors that apparently resulted in no hearing damage.
(not quantified)
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It's not possible to accurately quantify hearing damage without a baseline to work from. Given that very few people have had a formal test to baseline their hearing, it's a given that virtually any hearing damage will be more or less "unquantified".
...adrenaline does some strange things when you shoot, although this doesn't address your family members in the same room or house.
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It also probably won't address your own hearing. You may not notice the sound (I didn't actually hear the discharge noise when I had my experience) but it can still do a number on your ears.
 
JohnKSa said:
Your admission that it caused your ears to ring means that it was bad enough to cause permanent damage.

Providing information that may help someone avoid damaging their hearing through an ill-advised experiment is an excellent way to use this forum and forums like it.

We have so far on a two page thread:

1. Experience of firing a .357Sig outdoors that resulted in hearing damage.
2. Three experiences of firing a .357Mag indoors that resulted in hearing damage.
3. One experience of firing a 9mm indoors that resulted in hearing damage.
4. One experience of firing a .38spl indoors that apparently resulted in no hearing damage.

It's not possible to accurately quantify hearing damage without a baseline to work from. Given that very few people have had a formal test to baseline their hearing, it's a given that virtually any hearing damage will be more or less "unquantified".

It also probably won't address your own hearing. You may not notice the sound (I didn't actually hear the discharge noise when I had my experience) but it can still do a number on your ears.
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Nice summary!

Mel
 
I'll happily trade some more hearing loss for something much worse happening to myself or my family.
 
I'm a wheelgun guy. And in a SD situation, there is no other gun I'd rather have in my hand than (one of) my S&W 686(s).

But. . .

Noise IS a serious consideration in a home environment. Not only are 357 Magnums particularly loud, but pretty much all revolvers are loud - due to the barrel-cylinder gap (it also generates an unacceptable of side-flash - but that's a different post).

That said, I go with a semi-auto for home protection. I prefer the 45 ACP round because it's low pressure; and therefore, low noise ("low" being a relative term, of course). And of course, it still delivers a pretty good punch.
 
I can hear it now... "Kids! Get your ears on! Daddy heard a noise downstairs!"

Seriously, the presence of the carpet and stuffed furniture is something I hadn't considered. I hope if it ever comes down to it that all that sound-dampening helps a LOT.
 
I had an incident next door with someone that had to be removed by police. The person turned a pitbull loose on two officers and one officer fired three rounds into the dog with a .40. I was standing right behind the officer doing the fireing and all I heard was three small pops.
 
Maybe off topic. But. Fired 6 shot cylinder of standard pressure .38 lrn. Didn't perceive noise as loud but temporarily lost more and more of my hearing each shot. Perceived it as a pop noise but my ears felt like they were clogging and they rang badly for a few days. I've fired .22 magnum inside a full shop warehouse. Into a backstop of course. Didn't find it too bad, loud with very temporary ringing. But I stopped doing this after I fired a round when the place had Been emptied and cleaned up. Had the ring but a actual pain when fired. .22 lr as well but to a lesser extent. One of the main reasons I won't carry .357 anymore is the noise. I just couldn't imagine. .38 fine for me.
 
hat happens after the 44 magnum is discharged in the 1200 square foot home with the wife and three children?Is everyone including me, deaf forever?
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No, but it's going to cost you.

SO lets look at even a 9 mm or a 38 or a little 22. Discharging one of any of these in an enclosed slab or two-story home, will defiantly effect hearing.
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Yeah. "Dropping the hammer" means everything's gone wrong. I assume that if you've gotten to the point of shooting, the alternative result of not shooting is worse.

Yes, it's going to cost you.
 
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Lee N. Field, cute:rolleyes: , the name thingy. Now if you have read my initial post as well as my latter insertion, you will note I am not associating; NOT defending self or family with any said weapon available, when necessary. I was asking a question in order to determine if most of us ever give consideration to the aftereffects of such altercation.

Now with that said, I am also not a Rambo mindset either. I do know that some of us can do better with smaller calibers than larger calibers. But our male manliness brings out the big guy in us and we mostly have to have the biggest thing going. I have owned almost every cal. hand gun short of 44 mag and 50 cal. I even had a $3800.00 Wilson Combat 45 that I couldn't hit the narrow side of the barn with. I have in like had a 17 that I could split casings with at 75 feet. My proportions are 6'-1" 240#. I also served in the Army during but not in V.N. as a Medic. So I have heard noise.

My point again goes back to the one poster here, whom really had an altercation and had to use his weapon for defense. His response qualifies him better than any of us speculators and range shooters. I do know an empty room, such as a shooting range is going to be much different that a deep pile carpeted room with suspended ceiling, and full of furniture. If you have family, which should not change your reasoning for shooting and defending self, you might be interested in the after effects as I am, which is why I pretty much asked the question.;)

i love all the responses here especially the hearing effect information, which is part of what I was looking for. Since it appears that most believe that the hearing loss thing is only temporary, I'm considering a Ruger 30 cal pistol for basement target shooting!!!!!!!!:eek:
 
Since it appears that most believe that the hearing loss thing is only temporary, I'm considering a Ruger 30 cal pistol for basement target shooting!!!!!!!!
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Hearing loss is not temporary. Even if your hearing goes back to what you perceive is normal, there was still damage done. I have high frequency hearing loss from firing a single .357 round indoors with no hearing protection, as well as permanent ringing in my left ear. While the high frequency hearing loss does not effect things like hearing the TV or people taking, if I take a loaded rifle round and shake it next to my good ear I can hear the powder shaking around in the casing, if I do it in my bad ear it is ever so faint.
 
What? Can't hear you.

I can tell you that I am certain there was some permanent loss after that one incident. I cal also tell you being a teenager in the 70s has taken a toll as well.

I can now go to a full blown concert and not leave deaf because I am sure I am not 100% in the hearing area!

So, if you can avoid it, don't fire any weapon without hearing protection. During self defence situations, you have no choice.

I stopped dove hunting because I hate ear protection while hunting dove and the shotgun noise is just too much.

Mel
 
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