Shooting in the ??HOUSE??

A

AtEase

Inactive
OK, First; I looked up the phrase: "shooting in the house" and found oodles of them but the ones I read didn't address the issue of "NOISE" (yes, I know I was shouting). Now since I'm old and have Harley ear, I am,well, unsavable. I'm a twigs throw from deaf. Mostly tone deaf as I hear every gun shot and every Harley around. And by the way, it should be understood that I am talking defending in the home and not a home personal shooting range in the bedroom or basement, as some of the well-heeled individuals may be able to afford.

So here's my question: For home defense, and being men and wanting BIG bangs; what happens after the 44 magnum is discharged in the 1200 square foot home with the wife and three children? Is everyone including me, deaf forever? SO lets look at even a 9 mm or a 38 or a little 22. Discharging one of any of these in an enclosed slab or two-story home, will defiantly effect hearing.

Obviously we are not wearing hearing protection and in the night times with our heads laying down and the noise level way down, boom from any direction or source is discernible.

Now before anyone goes off on a tangent, I fully understand the primary objective to protecting your loved ones, and or self. What I'm looking for is from someone that has been through it, to talk a bit about it. I understand that tunnel vision and focus goes along with time and becomes unimportant, just as much as I recignise that if one is drowning, they don't really give consideration to getting their new suit or dress all wet.

But the fact does remain, noise from a gun is usually proportionate to the cal of the shot fired, and you ain't at the shooting range. And I do know that there isn't squat we can do about that. Just interested in the facts, not so much opinions.
 
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I would feel comfortable using a 9mm indoors. I'd prefer to have ears on but I'd have no reservations firing a few dozen rounds indoors, on a strictly irregular basis. I've fired a single 9mm round in an indoor range with my ears off to get a feel for an SD shooting, and it was jarring but I suffered no perceptable long term damage.
 
I'm sure someone somewhere has looked at sound pressure levels and hearing damage thresholds for different calibers and situations. But I know from shooting at the range, and from friends shooting guns next to me at the range, that heavy walls make a big difference. My .357 snubbie is very loud in the middle of a large room, but fire it next to the concrete wall on one side and it's painfully loud even through the headphones. Drywall would not make as much difference, but four close drywall walls might.

That said I fired a magazine through my very-loud .357-Sig at an outdoor range one time without hearing protection, just to see what it was like. My ears rang for a long time, sure, but no permanent damage.
 
...what happens after the 44 magnum is discharged in the 1200 square foot home with the wife and three children?
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The persons in the room where the gun is discharged will almost certainly suffer some temporary hearing loss and likely some level of permanent hearing loss.

People in other rooms will hear the shot but are unlikely to be impaired by the sound levels.
My ears rang for a long time, sure, but no permanent damage.
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Ringing ears after exposure to loud noise is generally indicative of some level of permanent damage to one's hearing.
I've fired a single 9mm round in an indoor range with my ears off to get a feel for an SD shooting, and it was jarring but I suffered no perceptable long term damage.
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Perceptible is the key word. It's likely you did permanent damage to your hearing. The brain compensates pretty well in the early stages of hearing loss, but it's cumulative so every exposure adds to the damage. Eventually the brain can't compensate any more and the result is noticeable hearing impairment and possibly permanent ringing in the ears.

In the early stages, the only way to determine if permanent loss has occurred is to be tested.
What I'm looking for is from someone that has been through it, to talk a bit about it.
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I have fired a .357Mag indoors without hearing protection. It resulted in several minutes of near total deafness. I recovered to some extent but still have noticeable and significant permanent hearing loss in my left ear.

I have another acquaintance who had the misfortune to fire a .357Mag indoors and that person also noted near total temporary hearing loss (couldn't hear the smoke detector going off immediately above) and significant permanent loss as a result of the event.
 
Although I have not shot 44mag or 9mm in a house, I have fired a few .38 special and quite a bit of .22 in he basement growing up.

That being said, I can also add comment from a different perspective. I have performed quite a bit of sound testing (not forearm related) as a regular part of my job. I can tell you that every situation is different because every room I'd different. You may be firing a weapon in a 1200 ft2 home, but more importantly, you are probably firing it in. 100 to 200 ft2 room. The room itself has a significant influence on noise levels. An empty garage with a sealed solid concrete floor and cinder block walls painted with a high gloss paint will be MUCH louder than a carpeted room with a lot of upholstered furniture, heavy curtains and flag paint or wallpaper. I don't mean to imply the latter will not be loud, but the sound will be at a much lower level in the second example than in the first.

My point is there is not an easy answer, but if I was in a defense situation and had a choice, I'd probably select a .38, a 9mm or a .45, but would not pass up other caliber options if it meant the difference between being able to provide a defense or not.
 
How do you know that you suffered no permanent hearing damage? Did you take a hearing test before and after?
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I didn't take tests, no, but if there was permanent damage it was totally imperceptible. I've had worse ringing ears from rock concerts in my youth. But that was outside in the middle of an open field, indoors would have been worse.
 
Please, PLEASE do not shoot without hearing protection just to see what it is like. You are risking something that can not be replaced in return for information that is largely useless and that can easily be obtained from the experiences of others.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...ngology/noise-induced_hearing_loss_85,P00458/

According to the American Academy of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, noise is damaging if:

You have to shout to be heard.

Your ears hurt.

Your ears ring.

You have difficulty hearing for a couple of hours after the exposure.

...

Hearing loss can occur after a one-time exposure to a loud noise.​
 
Thanks Mom. :) But I had a point, which wasn't, wot the hell, I wonder what'll happen. I firmly believe you should understand what will happen when you pull the trigger on a firearm, in situations as close to real-world scenarios as is practical. In most every defense scenerio I can imagine, I'm not going to be wearing headphones. I won't fire a gun indoors because it's illegal and I don't want holes in my walls or floor or ceiling, but outdoors in the middle of a field with no phones is a reasonable approximation. If we can just go by what we read, we wouldn't need to practice shooting at the range either, just read a book. ;)
 
There is no need for a .44 Magnum for home defense. Keep the HD gun as low in noise/power as reasonably possible. If you want BIG BANGS and think .500 S&W is too quiet, then you are going to suffer the consequences. Huh??

Jim
 
i had a negligent discharge in my carpeted, fully furnished living room. 38spl. me and my wife were shocked at how quiet it was. she awoke, slowly and said "what was that noise", after explaining that I fired my snubbie in the living room, she was like "really?" "it barely woke me up".

when I tell this story, people do not ever believe me, but I assure you, the sound was almost all soaked up by the insulation. if you live in the country, open a window and fire a round out of a furnished carpeted room. you will be very surprised. when I shoot in my concrete garage, it seems 5x louder than shooting at even a range, and all the metal poles ring and it sucks, but that one shot in the living room was very eye opening.

btw...I learned from my ND and never "play" with my guns anymore, so please no lecture. it was my first pistol and I was just stupid at the time.
 
JeffK,

I understand exactly what you were doing and why.

The information you obtained by your experiment could have been easily found online--I have shared my experience and the results more than once on TFL and I have seen others do the same.
...outdoors in the middle of a field with no phones is a reasonable approximation.
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Having done both, I can tell you with a certainty that the two do not compare even remotely. I have discharged firearms outdoors and indoors without hearing protection and I can tell you that the two events are as different as night and day. I was essentially totally deaf for several minutes after the indoor discharge but suffered very little temporary hearing impairment from the outdoor discharge.
If we can just go by what we read, we wouldn't need to practice shooting at the range either, just read a book.
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The two things are very different.

We shoot to develop skills and the more we shoot the better our skills are. There is no way to develop useful skills in "hearing loud noises without hearing protection". No matter how often you do it you won't get any better at it. The only practical effect is negative--hearing damage.

This is one of those situations where it's better to READ about eating the rotten egg than feeling like you actually have to eat one for yourself to be sure you know what it's like.
Thanks Mom.
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You've already done the damage to your hearing as I have to mine. Frankly, the warning and plea was to others who may read this thread. It was not directed at you.
 
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser.
A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.
These words seem to apply to those who won't heed advice concerning hearing loss.
 
It is worth noting that a sound suppressor does not reduce most centerfire arms to safe levels for long term exposure. It would certainly help if in a defensive situation, but I hope no one tries to gauge what it would be like using one.

So, JeffK, could you run another test to see what the effect will be on you after the hearing damage? With your present hearing damage your previous test is almost certainly invalid.

I work in a shop that machines very hard alloys. Inconel, Ti, duplex, etc. Many of our larger pieces have problem with "chatter." THis results in a very loud high pitched screaming/banshee sound. I wear hearing protection whenever one of these jobs or a similarly loud job is running in the shop(and often when they aren't). It always amuses me when one of the older guys, who clearly has problems hearing. says something to me about how they have 'been doing this thirty years. Never wore ear protection and never had any hearing problems.' I was working one night and an air hose broke in a machine creating a very high pitched scream that was quite loud to me 100 feet away with hearing protection on. Loud enough I immediately stopped and went to check everything was OK. That machines operator was totally unaware of the issue even though they were within a few feet and not wearing hearing protection. Most people with partial hearing loss seem totally unaware in my experience.
 
There is no need for a .44 Magnum for home defense. Keep the HD gun as low in noise/power as reasonably possible. If you want BIG BANGS and think .500 S&W is too quiet, then you are going to suffer the consequences. Huh??
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If that's what you have, that is what you'll use.

A 44 loaded with Specials is more pleasant then a hot 357

Personally I don't give much thought to what it will sound like if I NEED to shoot it indoors, since any firearm will hurt your hearing indoors
 
So, JeffK, could you run another test to see what the effect will be on you after the hearing damage? With your present hearing damage your previous test is almost certainly invalid.
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Thanks for the offer, but once was enough, and there's no point in repeating it. Not sure how many more time it needs to be said, but firing a .357Sig outdoors is not that bad, not nearly as bad as a loud rock concert for causing ringing ears. We have another personal experience of firing a .38 indoors, that was no big deal. We have another experience of firing a .357 magnum indoors that apparently caused permanent (not quantified) hearing loss. And we have some finger-wagging nannies.

So it seems to depend on circumstances and on the gun.

By the way, age alone may well explain your machine shop story. As we get older, inevitably our hearing degrades, and almost everyone who lives long enough will need a hearing aid. Repetitive exposure to loud sounds will cause it to degrade faster, single exposures to extremely loud sounds will do the same, but it will degrade on its own.
 
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But the fact does remain, noise from a gun is usually proportionate to the cal of the shot fired, and you ain't at the shooting range. And I do know that there isn't squat we can do about that. Just interested in the facts, not so much opinions.
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9mm 160db
.38spc 158db
.45AUTO 157db
Jet engine at take-off 140db
 
It is worth noting that a sound suppressor does not reduce most centerfire arms to safe levels for long term exposure. It would certainly help if in a defensive situation, but I hope no one tries to gauge what it would be like using one.
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That is not exactly correct. My SWR Octane45 is rated hearing safe for both 9mm and 45acp. With 9mm subsonic loads it is no louder then disconnecting a high pressure air hose. My AAC TiRant 9S is rated hearing safe if shot wet. Dry it reduces the sound to a level that i would not hesitate to use indoors for a defensive shooting.

In fact that is the can my Glock 19 wears evey night, loaded with 147gn ammo. Its quiet enough for indoor work if needed
 
I fired a single .357 round out of a snubbie indoors 3 years ago and my left ear hasn't stopped ringing and has high frequency hearing loss. I no longer own any .357's for defense, far too loud of a round for what you get out of it. If I am going to put my ears through that kind of punishment I would rather grab a 12g or my AR. For home defense I use my Beretta M9A1, long barreled 9mm's make for relatively quiet shooters.
 
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