Sexual Ads

After all, if an adult feels that sex with a child is morally acceptable who are we to condemn him
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That's quite a leap from an advertisement in a magazine.

Redworm is correct. Sometimes, right or wrong depends on your perspective. Shakespeare said something along the lines of 'Nothing is either right nor wrong, but thinking makes it so'. Of course, if we look at things at the extreme ends of the spectrum, we can find things that could be defined as absolutely wrong or right. But there are gray areas in perspective. Let's look at an event in the animal world, and define it in human terms as an example.

A lioness kills a young gazelle. To the cubs she will feed with the kill, she is god, she is good. To the mother of the killed gazelle, she is the devil, she is evil incarnate, having killed her offspring.

Perspective lies at the center of nearly all our thoughts, and is key in the formation of opinions.
 
Every day I see young girls exposing their underwear and various other parts of their bodies in public. If a gal is eighteen so be it. But I see thirteen and fouteen year old dressed that way in public. Often they are with their parents. Malls have become a Disneyland for pedaphiles. Where did they get the idea for this? Not out of the thin blue air. I know that a parent should tell their minor children what is and what is not appropriate behavior. Many of them also have gotten the idea that exposed body parts is fine.
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You have changed the subject from media to public indecency and pedophila. The laws governing acceptable behavior/decency is much different from those that govern media. While I tend to agree with what you find revolting; I am not of the mindset that my sensibilities should govern the behavior of others. I have the ability to cancel my subscriptions if I find a magazine objectionable. I DO NOT need the government to make that call for me.

If I want my governments protection it's to guard our financial markets. That is a big digression from your topic; but somebody is asleep at the wheel to the tune of 6 billion a day...ei. Reg SHO.
 
FISHERMAN66
But what is acceptable in public decency and the media are inner connected. Did you not read some of the responses here that morality is open to individual interpretation. Those ideas are reinforced by the mass media. Companies can get us to buy their beer and eat their hamburgers by hitting us with thirty second TV spots. But the hours of smut are not suppose to have any affect on us. Yes, they do. That includes what is acceptable for public decency and how our legal system views predators of our children.
 
Advertising and Capitalism

I too agree that the money spent on advertising comes, for the most part, directly from the consumer. However I wonder which came first, the consumer purchase or the advertisement. It seems to me that the advertisement would have to come first else how would the consumer know that the product was available for sale?

It also appears that advertising is a fair chunk of company operating costs. Advertising has for a long time been a scientific endeavor as far as psychology is concerned. This paper by Walter Dill Scott was written in 1904. Such money would not be spent on advertising if it was not effective.


It would be as pointless as a car ad aimed at a 10 year old, and no business is going to throw away money on such a ridiculous idea.
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I do not consider this pointless rather a small investment in the future, if you will.

IMO believing that big-budget advertising is not specifically and scientifically developed to cause primal and subliminal cause / reaction as well as long term branding in the human mind is naive and not supported by the facts.

I also agree the only solution is to not expose ourselves to the advertising. As far as sexual advertising goes I am not suggesting the ostrich approach or the "duck and run", but what you need to know about sex cannot be translated in a single page spread in a magazine, newspaper, or on television. Unfortunately that is precisely where some kids learn it.

The last thing we need is more government regulation.
 
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On a side note I would just like to say that the longevity of this thread demonstrates the class of the TFL membership and moderators.
 
First off I want to apologize if I stepped on anyones toes here. Trust me, I am not that extreme in my views. I think I was venting some steam here. I am upset about the ads in the magazines that started this thread. I know it seems as though I am blowing this out of porportion, but darn it, some lines should not be crossed.

I have cancelled my subscritions to these magazines. I have also sent them letters explaining my disdain for their choice of advertisers. I am also contacting the other advertisers and letting them know how I feel and that advertising in those magazines won't reach me anymore.

I really feel if enough people took a similar approach that they might clean up their act.
 
You may take this as insult. I am sorry if you do. But the extreme left wingers want us to believe that there is no societal morality, it is up to each individual. These are the folks that want to give pedaphiles two month jail sentences. After all, if an adult feels that sex with a child is morally acceptable who are we to condemn him.
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I don't claim that there is not such thing as societal morality, simply that it's always been and will always be a subjective issue. What was moral a century ago is not so today. What is moral in America is immoral in other countries and vice versa. Harming another human being, which includes pedophilia, is pretty much considered immoral among most of the sentient folk on this little planet. On the other hand when you start talking about things that simply offend others as opposed to actually harming them the morality argument flies out the window.

But the hours of smut are not suppose to have any affect on us.
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Then the answer is simple. Stay away from the smut. You know where it is so the only way you can be exposed to hours of it is if you make the choice to do so.

I have cancelled my subscritions to these magazines. I have also sent them letters explaining my disdain for their choice of advertisers. I am also contacting the other advertisers and letting them know how I feel and that advertising in those magazines won't reach me anymore.
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Then you're doing the right thing in concordance with your beliefs. Rock on.

Now the only thing I recommend is to remember that your son's urges to procreate are not going to end with that subscription. At twelve years old his hormones are already beginning to rage. He's going to start noticing his changes soon and one of the worst situations a kid can be in during puberty is thinking that he can't talk to his parents about it. If he has a wet dream tomorrow night but the thought that anything relating to sex is sinful and should be kept behind closed doors he's not going to feel comfortable enough with you to discuss it. He might think something is horribly wrong with him.

Don't get me wrong; it's your child and you raise him how you wish. I just urge you to think about the topic logically. Biology is driving his sexual urges, not the media. It's going to happen no matter what you do so to give him the best possible chance of coping with what is most certainly going to happen is for him to have every bit of information you can provide him.
[/two centz]
 
REDWORM
When I was twelve I hardly knew what women were. As I got a few years older, I did notice them. Yes, if I had a chance I would sneak a peak at a girlie picture. But, that stuff was not readily availabe. I guess part of the thrill was trying to find it and not get caught.

I almost feel sorry for today's youth. There is so much, in your face sex that some of the thrills of youth must be gone.

I really feel that today's kids are not allowed to be just that, kids- long enough. There are studies and theories in behavioral sciences that suggest that trying to mature a child too fast is not good for them. There were drugs and alcohol when I was I youth, but not like today. There are classrooms today were half the kids are on Ridalin and other drugs to counter mental problems. Most of these druged kids are from single mother homes. Many of these kids have little supervision for hours every day. Suggestive television and video games make up a good part of that time. Is it any wonder they need drugs to in school to concentrate and not fly off the walls.

Around here you hardly see kids outside playing anymore. You do see kids that are fat and out of shape. Childhood obesity is an epidemic. When I was a kid I spent most of my days outside playing and exploring. I suppose when I was a teenager with ragging hormones I would have stayed glued to the television if they had today's programs back then. But if I wanted to see interesting parts of the female anatomy I had to get off my butt and go look for it. At the least that burnt off calories.

By the way, that twelve year old that you referenced is my grandson. I will try to let him be a kid as long as possible. I feel like I owe that much to him.
 
I understand. I agree that the Ritalin and the fat kids suggest a pretty bad state of affairs for today's youth. I think it's good that you want to give him the chance to be a kid as long as possible, just use caution to avoid keeping him one when he's ready to be an adult. :) Good luck.
 
Childhood obesity and ADD are DIRECTLY related to the quality of parenting. What your kid does with his spare time and what he eats are the direct responsibility of a parent.

Talking about them as if they are "societal problems" makes my blood boil.

If a parent can't be trusted to at least kick his kid off the couch and pack a decent bag lunch for him, they shouldn't have had kids. At that point, there's no point in worrying about what naughty pictures he'll see - how's a fat kid with no ability to concentrate ever going on a date in the first place?


Parenting is not easy, but raising a child that is at least healthy is a baseline. Morals and character come after that, then wisdom and skill.

I see no point in discussing the nuances of raising moral children if we can't confine the discussion to children that are at least receiving adequate care.
 
Childhood obesity and ADD are DIRECTLY related to the quality of parenting. What your kid does with his spare time and what he eats are the direct responsibility of a parent.
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While poor parenting can severly exacerbate the problem ADHD is not CAUSED by poor parenting. In some cases of obesity, like Prader-Willi, the eating issue is caused by a chromosomal defect. Good parenting can make the difference in these kids living a productive life; but it is not accurate to blame many of these issues on poor parenting. I see your point; however, and kids who are allowed to play video games and eat potato chips for hours on end are molded into fat and lazy adults.
 
ADHD is not caused by parenting but it's grossly overdiagnosed. Many psychiatrists are simply overwhelmed with parents who demand Ritalin or Adderal or other ADD/ADHD drugs. They know that some parents are simply unwilling to admit that either they did a bad job raising their child or their child is simply not as smart as the other kids in the class. These parents will refuse to accept the truth and just hop from shrink to shrink until one of them writes them the script they're looking for.

Prader-Willi is not a common disorder and in most cases comes with at least a mild case of mental deficiency. A perfectly smart and capable kid that just happens to be fat is probably fat because his parents let him eat all the junk food he wants. Even stocky, large framed kids can be far healthier than the morbid obesity seen in so many youths. It sucks for those that actually have the disorder and it can be a very tough life to live.

There are cases in which no amount of parenting will compensate for genetic disorders or other medical conditions but those cases are the exception to the rules, not the status quo. The problem lies in parents of perfectly healthy kids skirting their responsibilities and placing the blame on things that they want to solve by having Junior pop some pills. That is the drug problem in today's world, not the illicit drugs that people use to screw themselves up. People want pills to make them happy, make their hair grow, give them massive boners, help them lose weight (and y'know, if any of the latter three work why on earth would the antidepressant even be necessary...) all for vanity. Those are the people driving up health care costs, not the folks who have debilitating diseases like Parkinson's or Multiple Sclerosis that genuinely need their pharmaceuticals to lead normal lives.

I heard on the news this morning that in just a few short years 20% of every dollar spent in the US is going to be on health care. More people are being diagnosed with mental disorders, not because they're more prevalent but because they claim they're being recognized more often. More people are going into surgery, sometimes elective, because of morbid obesity. How ridiculous is it that gastric bypass is covered by insurance companies for people without any kind of physiological reason for their fat ass? I see people every day with serious neurological disorders who are often kept from getting the treatment they need because ding dongs who just want some happy pills put on a wonderful show for the doctors.

Eh, rant over.
 
My Big Surprise

I am a hunter, gun owner, and a conservative. My political leanings are definately right. I used to think that most hunters and gun owners were of similar political thinking.

Some of the responses here are making me scratch my head and wonder. Some folks here seem to want to excuse bad behavior wether it is a perversion or bad parenting. It seems that some even advocate not taking personal responsibility for actions. I am not going to name folks here as that will start a round of name calling. I do not intend to be calling anyone names.

I am surprised that many of the responses here are closer to what is uttered by Colmes instead of Hannity. Maybe I should be thankful that gun owners reside on both sides of the aisle.
 
Really Roy,

Why don't you actually say something? If you think something is in error, say so.


Specifically, who is "excusing behavior". Most of the posts I've read on this thread are about how to best actively parent to produce a healthy child. Myself, Lizzedog and Redworm all seem to have very different ideas about how to do that, but none of us are abdicating responsibility or fault to another agency aside from the parent.
 
Adhd

There is some mention here that an out of control kid is caused by a medical problem, not bad parenting. I had my moments as a kid in school. My dad had a cure for my ADHD. It was called his boot. It worked quite well and did not require a perscription.
 
Prader-Willi is not a common disorder and in most cases comes with at least a mild case of mental deficiency.
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More people are being diagnosed with mental disorders, not because they're more prevalent but because they claim they're being recognized more often.
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Genetic testing is becoming more refined. Prader-Willi is diagnoised more often due to that refinement. Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD) is also also on the rise. Perhaps that is a bad thing, as those social disorders are rarly successfully treated medically; and what is the point of identifing those disorders if the treatment is "live the same life as everyone else." Those kids don't need an excuse, but good parents instead. I struggle with the epidemic rise of autism. I agree that the rate of incidence is not equal to the rate of diagnoisis and that over identification is a real problem. That doesn't mean that all those kids diagnoised have no symptoms. It goes back to parents who can't accept that a pill will not help. I just want to point out that it is not fair to make that a blanket statement.
 
Who Else

Do you realize the if Einstien(sp?) were an elementary student today he would be put on Ridalin as being overly hyper? Walt Disney was a poor student too, today he would have been diagnosed with some sort of mental illness. I have always wondered what future great minds we are doping up now-a -days?

You see out of control kids everywhere. How many times have you gone to the store and saw a parent plead with an uncontrolled brat. I imagine what that kid's teacher has to put up with. Then that parent will blame the teacher for the kids bad behavior.

I spent my first eight years of school at a Catholic School. They did have corporal punishment. When Mother Superior walked into a classroom, there was dead silence. As bad as that was, nothing that the school could do scared me half as much as what my parents were going to do if the school called them.

Brat kids are the result of bad parenting most of the time. Yes, I realize that there can be biological problems with the brain, but not with every kid. The brain problem is with the parents. They need to come up with a drug that creates a spine in weak parents. That would cure a lot of society's woes.
 
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