sex offender lists

N

Northern Sod Breaker

New member
I have to say this is just more "Do it for the kids" hysteria. I have a friend who when he was 15 had consentual relations with a 12 year old. He is now 28 and recently went to court for failing to register. He got off with probation. The judge at sentencing stated the beings he had no offences since he was 15 and it was for all intents half a life time ago. He has a job that pays good (for the area) He is engaged to be married and has never had so much as a speeding ticket his entire adult life. I have to ask what is wrong with the above picture? It is far to easy to make it on this list. My arguement has been if they have served their time then leave then alone. If there still unsafe for society then why do we let them out? If anyone has an answer for this question I'm all ears. Also teens reach physical maturity about 16-17 years of age. If a a 19 year old guy has realtions with a 17 year old girl. What crime has he commited that deserves 20 year in federal pen? They are both of close compareable levels of maturity both physical and mental. Simply becuase the one has not reached that "magic number" set forth by Uncle Sam. I'm not talking about pre-teen girls and 40 years guys here. I'm talking about a consenting couple in with their happens to be a difference in age.
I just have to ask what's wrong here. One more thing. when charges are filed, who files them most of the time? Not the two involved. To those of you with daughters how many of you actauly like their boyfriends? And further more how many of you would go out of your way to put distance between them and your daughters? I rest my case.
 
I pretty much agree. Am I wrong are didn't it use to be that it was considered normal for teens to date each other?

You know like a 14 yr old girl and a 16 yr old boy. Or even teen girls wanting to date 18 to 22 year old college boys. Aren't the majority of couples seperated by three to four years usually with the man being older?

I understand wanting to protect young girls. However it seems strange when a 18 yr old is charged with a sex crime for dating a 16 or 17 yr old girl. As you stated a normal young female of say 15 is as mentally and emotionally mature as a 17yr old male. Maybe more so.

Its like everything else I guess, they try and correct a societal problem and the pendulm swings to far in the opposite direction.
 
Agreed, I've called into give the local radio host an earful. These laws ARE a punishment and I can only hope that the SCOTUS reverses "Smith v. Doe" (2003) because while these laws may not punish physically, they are extremely punishing economically to these individuals.

The even worse part of these is that these otherwise law abiding people are often denied their voting and gun rights. People often get emotional over a "sex offender" and don't even WANT to find out what they did. Did a 44 year old violate a 12 year old or did a 22 year old urinate in public within eyesight of some 17 year old girls. To these people one "sex offender" is the same as another. So there they are, a possibly law abiding person with people who wish to do him harm and no way to defend himself.

I seriously hope these laws get repealed. They have watered down the "sex offender" term to be meaningless, much like they have done with the term "felon".
 
I also have a problem with people being listed as Sex Offenders for indecent exposure. Say good ol' Frank has a few too many with you one night and decides to take a drunken leak in an alley behind the bar (gross, yes but whatever, it's good ol' Frank!!!) Most states list that as a sexual offense, and now good ol' Frank is on the same list as creepy Steve who likes little boys.


Stupid liberal mentality spawning laws... :mad:
 
Sodbreaker, You didn't say what your friend was convicted of. I like a couple of the posters would be interested in what the offense actually was before making a decision as to agreeing or disagreeing with his status as a sex offender. While the person caught peeing in the alley should not be on that list, someone convicted of local law concerning rape, statuatory rape, forcible sodomy, pedophilia, etc should really do belong on said list in my opinion. I know someone who for years ranked in my most trusted category who now has been convicted of abusing, etc,,etc young people he met via Big Brothers, and other orgs. He will and does belong on said registries when and if he gets out of jail.
Again, what was your friend convicted of? Consentual sex wasn't a crime as far as I know. If so, aren't most of us guilty? Yep, I have daughters, and I do believe there needs to be a sex offender registry.
elkman
 
I understand wanting to protect young girls. However it seems strange when a 18 yr old is charged with a sex crime for dating a 16 or 17 yr old girl.
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I just had this conversation at work. While its a fine line between protecting children and common sense think of just how many people could be sex offenders based on the above situation.

Clearly laws aren't meant to be gray, but this is certainly an area where little gray would make a hell of a lot of common sense.
 
I agree for the most part with the O.P. While they should have long probations,.... that is fine.... it seems unconstitutional to tell them where they can live and putting them on a list for lifetime. I understand the other side of the argument.... I have children myself. But, I don't want to see these intrusive laws against anyone. If we allow them.... where will it end? What other crimes will be punished in the future by membership on a public list for a lifetime? Dangerous to liberty.

What about this kid in Georgia... when he was 17, he had oral sex with a 15 year old girl. He is now in jail for 10 years for this act. Unbelievable, but true.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-13-georgia_N.htm
 
elkman06 said:
While the person caught peeing in the alley should not be on that list, someone convicted of local law concerning rape, statuatory rape, forcible sodomy, pedophilia, etc should really do belong on said list in my opinion.
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I would disagree with the "crime" I highlighted.

Statutory rape, by definition is a status crime. Consider, two people in the same high school class are having sex. By virtue of one of the participants reaching the age of 18, this consensual sex is now a crime, where it wasn't beforehand.

Add to this mix, some States, like Idaho, do not have a statutory rape charge. It is rape and and the convicted person is a sex offender.

IMNSHO, this is not a "sex crime," and the stigma of sex offender should not be attached.

Please note that I do not approve of indiscriminate sex, nor sex between adolescents... But let's get at least a little practical here. It's gonna happen and there's no real way to stop two people who want to have sex with each other.
 
Sodbreaker, You didn't say what your friend was convicted of. I like a couple of the posters would be interested in what the offense actually was before making a decision as to agreeing or disagreeing with his status as a sex offender.
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I don't know what the original charge was. The only reason I know what I do is because his actions that got him on the "List" were brought up at the sentencing for his failing to register. Where by I was present as a spectator.
 
May I interject? I am a correctional sergeant currently working a sex offender yard. I know a wide variety of inmates, and some of thier crimes. Some as strange as the one who shoved hot pizza into a little girl, another who set fire to the woman he'd finished raping, (she lived to testify), another who was beaten to an inch of his life on my yard for announcing how he likes the smell of scared little boys, etc. They deserve where they are. Now, does an SO registry do any good? Yes and no, as it does make them slightly easier to locate, and the redicivism rate for SOs is pretty darn high. High as 100% in some cases. Is it an 8th Amendment violation? I don't know, because no other crime carries this extra baggage. I can say that SO registry can be likened to firearms registry, in that it is a voluntary compliance thing - if they move without telling anyone, they drop off the map. We register them before they leave, photo ID, etc, but after they get out, (96% of ALL inmates get out someday, and people wonder why I am armed!), they go past our supervision. And why do we let them out? Court says to do so. Can't do anything there, time is served, get out.
On the other side, I personally know one who shouldn't be there, a kid who was caught as a minor old having sex with his minor girlfriend. Parents pushed the statuatory rape case with a sympathetic judge, and this kid caught 5 years, some in Minors, and now the last with us in adult prison. Not any other offenses on his record, no disciplinary history in prison, nothing.
Statuatory rape is differant in many states, depending on the legal age of consent. It is considered by the courts that anyone below the age of consent is too young/immature to make serious decisions of a life altering nature, including the decision to have intercourse, with it's potential aftermath. There comes in the parents, who may press the charge of SR, with this legal opinion that the young lady in question was unabe to make a logical decision, and the young man took advantage of that to complete the act.
Crime and punishment is a huge area, and I welcome anyone to come into the fray, to help figure out anything better than what we are doing.
 
Statutory rape does differ from state to state and it's hard to find that perfect number that makes sense legally. There are some tough cases there.

Having said that, if any of you worked with, or received real training on sex offenders, none of you would question registration lists, and most of you would be wishing for much more intense sanctions. Sex offenders are sex offenders for life. They are highly manipultive, creative, and extremely uncaring about anybody's needs other than their owns. They have zero empathy for others and care only about their own twisted needs.

If you think I'm exaggerating or being overly critical, then I can about guarentee your opinions are not based in experience. Sex offenders are a whole different breed of human beings.

Oh, and taking a leak behind the bar is public urination ticket, not a sex offense. I have seen some cases come through similar to that (i.e. kid getting charged with Indecent Exposure for 'mooning' passing cars). However, as the case goes through the court process, 99% of cases such as that are discovered to be just what they are and charges are modified to more accurately reflect the nature of the incident. I do feel sorry for that 1% that get stuck, but no system is perfect I suppose.
 
I was under the impression that there was some kind of "2 year rule" for teens...17-15 or 18-16 was OK. Sorry, 15 and 12 is getting a little creepy (high school vs. junior high, but that's just my opinion not knowing any details and as such it's probably not suitable for legislation. There does need to be a better definition of what is and what is not a sex crime. Is this something that needs to go federal or stay with the states? I say it's a state issue, everyone needs to know what the state laws are and comply. It's definitely something parents need to be aware of and make SURE teenagers know and at least understand the consequences of their actions.

They are basically making the sex offender list worthless with calling public indecency (mistaking a tree in a park for a porta-potty) a sex crime. They're confusing people who have lapses in common sense (caused by urgency or alcohol) with a group of people who are the scum of the earth.

However there is one "offender" very close to where I live. He is an adult, over 30 who likes (or liked) teenagers and pre-teen girls. This guy practically lives on his front porch watching kids play. Is this harmless? Maybe. Is it creepy knowing the guy's history? Yeah.

Is that list violating his right to privacy or whatever? Probably so, although court documents are public record the lists and maps make it VERY public. Did I see this guy trying to give out ice cream to the kids around one day and publicly humiliate him after trying to quietly convince him to get away from the kids? YES. Then I went and bought some ice cream for the disappointed kids after explaining the situation to the parents who observed the situation and were concerned (sadly it was a very small number). Do I feel guilty about it? You guess.

Calling it a economic hardship or roadblock is garbage, employers typically require a criminal background check when hiring someone. You kill or rape someone it's going to be hard to find gainful professional employment period when you get out...a public map of these people will not help or hurt the cause of these individuals.

I have no problem at all telling people convicted of real sex crimes against children that they cannot be within x number of feet of children or schools. I'm not a big believer in pre-emptive action but that's one the sicko's will have to live with.

Registration is another thing, if the individual is still on probation they basically have to get "transferred" to another PO if they move or something. While on probation, they are basically getting a deferred jail sentence, people in jail usually are stripped of most, if not all of their rights. Once probation is over (assuming there was no repeat of the offense of course or probation would turn back into jail time) all the registration and publication of that individual's history should be taken out of the public eye in my opinion. Until that time they are still serving jail time on their own recognizance, and usually within a "timeframe" of repeat offenders statistically speaking.

I am of the opinion that such lists are excuses for lazy parenting. The idea of "let's watch the people on that list" is stupid just for the fact that there are plenty of perverts out there who have either not acted on their desires or have not been caught. Those lists are an aid to pro-active parents who are aware of what's going on around them, definitely not an all inclusive list of things to be aware of.

I understand why many of the people here are against "registration" and "publication of information"...at least I think I do. Comparing what happens to convicted criminals vs law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms is a stretch. BUT if one can justify saying "I want to know if my neighbors are convicted of a sex or violent crime" it's not much of a stretch to say "I want to know if my neighbors are sitting on an arsenal that could take over the Phillipines". In both cases you could say "It's my right to know what's happening around me".

That's a fight that's not worth thinking about until it happens (which it might have happened already in some states). I'd like to see the laws concerning what constitutes a sex offender tightened up, and the "life long" publication and registration cleaned up to be eliminated after incarceration and probation/parole are served. If someone can fix whatever is screwed up in themselves they deserve a fresh start.

The final point is what if they do something like that for other types of crime that involve personal harm or loss of property. Like murder, car stealing, burglary, assault. If it followed the same rules as I lined out above (active while the individual was still on probation or parole but "cleared out" when that was over) I say who cares. Add domestic violence to the list if you want. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be an active advocate for that cause, much like I didn't advocate the sex crime offender's lists...but I would not protest or fight for the rights of people convicted of causing bodily harm or financial loss to anyone still serving time, either through jail or probation/parole.

I'm not sure if anyone even bothered to read all that but yes, I do have people close to me who have been victims of pedophiles, sex offenders, and pieces of garbage who think they can take what they want from the world. I also have seen people turn their lives around and try their best to make up for their mistakes...finding a way to try to do the best thing for both groups of people is a challenge but if I were to err on one side or the other I have to err with the innocents WITH the current criminal system we have.
 
I dont understand why we only have sex offender lists:confused: Why not murderer and manslaughter lists? I'm much more concerned about somone who killed another human being than I am about the young man who's high school sweetheart was a year too young. I guess it all comes back to the "its for the children!!!"mentality and the fact that America seems to see anything even remotely sexual as somehow worse than death.
If we're gonna make lists, I'd like lists of murderers, car jackers, burglars, identity theives, drunk drivers and chronic speeders (hey, its for the CHILDREN!!!) I have a hard time justifying the singling out of one type of criminal (especialyl when their crime is ill-defined) when there are even worse crimes out there.
 
Any downsides (such as inconveniencing somebody who had "consensual" sex with a 12-yr-old) are far outweighed by keeping those lowlifes on a list.
 
I used to check things out with a young girl at a babysitters when I was a young boy, but she was about the same age at the time (within a year or so). Since she and I were so young, does that technically make us molesters or sexual offenders of each other? Sheesh.

We should be concerned about adults having contact with children, not children with children. At least in so far as a sexual offender status kind of way.
 
I have no love for the people that are the real problems. I wouldn't care if they put them in a hole and ran over there head with a lawn mower.

I do think the list thing has gotten out of hand.

Here in new Mexico the last week figured out Sex Offenders use the public library and has sense banded them from it.

Unable to live within a certain distance from a school!

Bus Stops!

Swimming Pools!

The Classification as a Sex Offender is growing and growing. You can be classed as a sex offender for getting caught pissing on the side of the road.

Like the Felon list grows and grows. You can be classed as a felon for some pretty SO WHAT stuff!


ARE YOU GOING TO BE ON THE NEXT LIST!:D
 
Actually armoredman the recidivism rate for "Sex offenders" isn't that high. Where did you get your statistics?

Ten-Year Recidivism Follow-Up Of 1989 Sex Offender Releases *pdf*
Code: 
[QUOTE]
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The baseline recidivism rate of sex offenders followed-up for ten years after
release from prison was 34%. This rate was comprised of:

Recommitment for a New Crime 22.3 %
Sex Offense 8.0 %
Non-Sex Offense 14.3 %

Recommitment for a Technical Violation 11.7 %
Sex Offense 1.3 %
Sex Lapse 1.7 %
Non-sex Related 8.7 %

The total sex-related recidivism rate, including technical violations of
supervision conditions, was 11.0%.
Recidivism rates differed considerably based on a victim typology:

Sex offender type               General recidivism  Sex recidivism
Rapists – (adult victims)       56.6%                 17.5%
Child Molester – extrafamilial  29.2%                 8.7%
Child Molester – incest         13.2%                  7.4%

Sex offenders who returned for a new sex related offense did so within a few
years of release. Of all the sex offenders who came back to an Ohio prison for
a new sex offense, one half did so within two years, and two-thirds within
three years[/QUOTE]

http://www.sexoffender.com/sorecidivism_review.html
One review of recidivism rates (p.7) found: "Incest offenders ranged between 4 and 10 percent. Rapists ranged between 7 and 35 percent. Child molesters with female victims ranged between 10 and 29 percent. Child molesters with male victims ranged between 13 and 40 percent. Exhibitionists ranged between 41 and 71 percent."
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http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/rsorp94pr.htm
Of the almost 9,700 sex offenders released in 1994, nearly 4,300 were identified as child molesters. An estimated 3.3 percent of the 4,300 released child molesters were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years. Most of the children they were alleged to have molested after leaving prison were age 13 or younger.
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So no, the redicivism rate for "Sex Offenders" is not that high. Certainly not anywhere NEAR 100%.
 
Consentual sex wasn't a crime as far as I know.
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sorry, but as far as im concerned there is no "consensual" when it involves a 12 yo girl.
if it was my daughter he would be thankful thats he's only on a list!
JMHO
tom
 
Crosshair, I have info from my Dept, plus I see them go out the gate...and come back in a few months later. Stats change from location to location, and some places/people, (Like Donna Hamm), will do anything to manipulate stats to make inmates look like wonderful angels.
If you have stats that say that SOs don't reoffend as a whole, you may be right, considereing how many individuals are classified as SOs, and yes, you can have your sex score raised in AZ for public urination. There are two distinct types of offenders, SOs and Sexual Predators. Perhaps the SOs who are "merely" rapists and such don't repeat offend as often, (except on each other behind the wire), but the Predators do, and will again until they can no longer. A sexual predator is a wolf in sheeps' clothing, such as a few I described in my post above.
Does that clarify for you?
 
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