Setting the shoulders back for the first time.
- Thread starter Pond James Pond
- Start date
Pond James Pond
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1: About half an inch or perhaps 5/8ths.
2: Most, if not all: I used no lube and there was no stiction at all, just the pin popping the primer out. All other ram movement was as if there was no case in the holder.
I have checked the necks: all good...
And I have annealed about half my cases.
I'll next resize just the neck with the collet die and let the cases do their thing until the time when chambering becomes a bit tricky, when I'll try the shoulder bumping.
Pond James Pond
New member
Not really difficult: took me 5 min to set up.
And that is what I did:
Loosen the decapping mandrel, insert a case into the die without lube, by hand until it starts to show resistance. Note how much case is sticking out.
Put the case in the shell-holder and raise the ram on an empty press. Remove mandrel and screw in die till a similar amount of case neck is exposed.
Reinsert mandrel, this time only tightening it when the pin is in a position that would put it beyond the base of the case, when the ram is raised.
Operate press. No resistance felt bar the ram itself and the primer popping out.
Conclusion being that the case itself is virtually if not completely untouched and ready for the collet die (which has no decapper at present).
Pond James Pond
New member
You:
Me:
Me:
James, I have neck sizing dies, I have full length sizing dies, when I use a full length sizing die to neck size I adjust the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. "HOW MUCH?" I adjust the gap between the shell holder and die to the amount of the neck I do not want to size. .100" would be a big gap, you indicated you used a gap of 500"+.
The part of the neck that is not sized will aid in centering the case in the chamber. I always ask about the difference between firing full length sized cases and neck sized cases, in the past there are those that feel they have to say something.
F. Guffey
Pond James Pond
New member
Yessiree, this poster is no longer an annealing virgin, thank you very much. And I managed to 'keep going' for quite a while, IYKWIM! About 2hrs as it happens. What can I say? I work out...
Feeling pre-tty pleased with myself!
Let's hope it worked!
Feeling pre-tty pleased with myself!
Let's hope it worked!
I am strictly just a recreational amateur handloader at this time. After much research on head spacing I decided to go the route of using fire formed casings and a Larry Willis headspace height gage. LW's gauge works fantastic with respect to bumping the shoulder back about .002 - .003" .
It's a decades old myth that the part of the neck that is not sized will aid in centering the case in the chamber for any cartridge that headspaces on its shoulder. That unsized part of the case neck is smaller in diameter than the chamber neck; it floats free in the chamber neck.
How far off center it is in the chamber neck depends solely on how well centered the case neck is on the case shoulder. The case shoulder's pressed against the chamber shoulder centering there very precisely. And that puts the case neck at some point in the chamber neck equal to the amount off center it is to the case shoulder axis.
Easy to measure if you check the neck runout on a case spinner with the case pressure ring the back reference and mid point on the case shoulder as the front reference with the dial indicator on the case mouth. Then measure your chamber neck diameter as well as that of the unsized part of the case neck.
How far off center it is in the chamber neck depends solely on how well centered the case neck is on the case shoulder. The case shoulder's pressed against the chamber shoulder centering there very precisely. And that puts the case neck at some point in the chamber neck equal to the amount off center it is to the case shoulder axis.
Easy to measure if you check the neck runout on a case spinner with the case pressure ring the back reference and mid point on the case shoulder as the front reference with the dial indicator on the case mouth. Then measure your chamber neck diameter as well as that of the unsized part of the case neck.
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Pond James Pond
New member
I wasn't trying to size necks. Just remove the primer.
I will neck size with the collet die. With a missing decap pin, it cannot remove primers.
603Country
New member
For what it's worth, these days I use Lee Collet dies on most of my calibers. When the cases get snug upon chambering, I'll use a body die to bump the shoulder back on calibers that I have them for, or use a FL die for those calibers I don't have a body die for. I won't claim that it is absolutely the best way to go about it, but it's the best method I have found so far. I've put the bushing type dies away. The Collet die does not care what your neck wall thickness is, and case lube is not needed. To me, those are big positives.
Pond James Pond
New member
Question:
I have one case that seems in dire need of annealing. It presently is home to powder, a bullet and a primer. I can remove the first two but the last I cannot.
Could annealing with the candle method ignite the seated primer?
Ideally, I'd like to anneal it, neck size it and whack the powder and bullet back in before returning it to the OCW string it is presently part of.
I have one case that seems in dire need of annealing. It presently is home to powder, a bullet and a primer. I can remove the first two but the last I cannot.
Could annealing with the candle method ignite the seated primer?
Ideally, I'd like to anneal it, neck size it and whack the powder and bullet back in before returning it to the OCW string it is presently part of.
That's the reasoning stool shooters thought for years. Not too long ago, they learned that full length sizing their fired cases made two things happen; case necks were better centered on case shoulders and their largest groups got smaller. Smallest ones stayed about the same size.
Sierra Bullet's reloading processes proved back in the 1950's the advantages of full lenght sizing over neck only, but most folks could never figure out the mechanical reasons why. One way keeps the case body and shoulder well aligned with the case neck during sizing; the other one doesn't.
The difference is small, but enough that those who can and do the best will see it happen. Reducing fired case body diameters and case headspace only .001" is enough and case life is many dozens, but .002" to .003" works too, but case life is only several to a couple dozen.
Sierra Bullet's reloading processes proved back in the 1950's the advantages of full lenght sizing over neck only, but most folks could never figure out the mechanical reasons why. One way keeps the case body and shoulder well aligned with the case neck during sizing; the other one doesn't.
The difference is small, but enough that those who can and do the best will see it happen. Reducing fired case body diameters and case headspace only .001" is enough and case life is many dozens, but .002" to .003" works too, but case life is only several to a couple dozen.
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Snyder, good luck, I always ask about the difference when fired between a minimum length/full length sized case and a case that has been necked sized only.
I know there is more to it than "that is what bench resters did it in the old days" and "now they do it the other way"
Never the rifle, never the shooter, it is always "bump the shoulder back .002",
And my favorite response by Pond, James Pond: "HOW!?"
F. Guffey
I know there is more to it than "that is what bench resters did it in the old days" and "now they do it the other way"
Never the rifle, never the shooter, it is always "bump the shoulder back .002",
And my favorite response by Pond, James Pond: "HOW!?"
F. Guffey