Seen a Guy "Double Fisting" at the Range Today

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uh huh

Jerry Miculek.... I have no problem with. How many Jerry Miculeks are there? Citing one example of a singularly skilled individual and applying that to the general population of shooters is an inappropriate generalization.
 
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The point being what? That those that can't play Guitar or piano generally only play with one hand and those that are skilled can play with both? Again....go back and read the OP. The shooter did not break any rules. Would having a rule against duo-wielding for the general public be a smart move? Maybe, IMO, depends on the range and the scenarios. But I wasn't there. I'm going off what the OP told us. That the shooter broke no range rules and did not do anything unsafe, or anything that a shooter with one gun would/could not do. I need more evidence before I would hang someone.
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Buck, please don't. You want a fight, it seems, when you tell me to go back and read the OP. I did. Now read my points again.

You know what the point was very well. Your comment was that many people play piano or guitar. My point, which I illustrated for you, was that while this is true, not every piano or guitar player is any good at it. I then went on to illustrate how you cannot ID that good player- or driver- easily, and that the rules for safety at a range therefore lie in the lowest common denominator area, for good reasons.

And your example of a one handed guitar player. No. People that can't play guitar generally do not do this. What you posted is untrue and is a poor example. People with two arms and two hands do not choose to play a guitar one-handed because they are unskilled at playing. Come on.

I did not say he broke any rules. If your definition of safety is "obeys just the posted rules" then we really have nothing to discuss. I can't believe you honestly feel that just because "no rules" are being broken, that this equals a good idea or a safe idea. I feel you're being disingenuous on this point.

But the most compelling point I can make right now is that you simply assume that this shooter was safe, and that he knew what he was doing. If you saw me shooting with a mirror, you would then assume I knew what I was doing? In my opinion, each of us here at TFL knows, or should know, that we do not make assumptions regarding firearms and their handling. You don;t want to consider any points being made expect your own. And as for your "boost an ego" comment before...what are you doing, if not inflating your ego by telling me that I had no point, and here's why I'm wrong? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My opinion is that you assume things will be well, just because you don't care to see how they won't. I find that cavalier and careless, Buck.
 
I try to mind my own business when I'm at the gun range and concentrate on my shooting and block out what everyone else is doing. I'll leave it to the range officers who are usually hovering over people as they shoot to enforce the rules. The last thing I want is to get into an argument with a guy with a gun who's doing something stupid. People are crazy these days.
 
two gun mojo

Two Gun Mojo is a tough thing to pull off. But it can, and has been done. Certainly, not everyone can do it. But we all agree there have been and are "trick" shooters who can do it.

Well, none of them ever woke up one morning fully skilled. They all have to practice, a lot.

we've got a few slightly different things in the discussion,
2 gun mojo is unsafe
2 gun mojo is unsafe at an indoor range
2 gun mojo is unsafe at the range I'm at...

and then there is specifically what the guy did in the OP.

The guy could have been a fool. OR he could have been on his way to being the next Ed McGivern or Jerry Miculek. We just don't know. So a blanket condemnation of 2 gun mojo seem out of place to me.

Someone doing 2 gun mojo, and lacking the skill to do it safely is certainly a bad thing, and even worse on an indoor range.

When you see someone doing it, odds are high they are either foolish, or just having fun. (and if the idea of having fun while recreational shooting offends your sensibilities, well, "Lighten up, Francis!" :D

The world is full of "experts" who are experts only because they think they are. Odds are high you'll meet some. But it is also possible that guy doing that "foolish" thing, is actually competent, or even expert. Only observation of what they can actually do will reveal the truth.

Sounds to me like the guy in the OP was irresponsible. But I didn't see it myself, just have to take it at your word. Good chance the guy doing 2 gun mojo is being an idiot, BUT that doesn't mean everyone who does, is.
 
As long as safety was not compromised, who the hell cares how he was shooting?

Attack another shooter due to subjective prejudice, and you might just be the next ostracized shooter.
 
Apparently you've never played guitar or piano, or any type of sports where more than one hand is required.
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I've played the piano and just about every other stringed instrument there is. I've also conducted an orchestra. Those things require a certain bit of multitasking, but they do not require me to focus my vision on two front sights simultaneously, while maintaining trigger control. Try it in dry fire. It may be possible, but it'll be tremendously difficult.

There probably are a few folks who can safely point-shoot that way, but they've only reached that level of proficiency after a great deal of discipline and training. The guy in the Nickelback t-shirt at the local range shooting his Glocks akimbo isn't one of those folks.
 
Let me start by saying that I would never do this at an indoor public range. However, I have fired two guns at the same time, Hollywood style, rapid fire.

It is not that difficult to keep all rounds pointed downrange and actually "near" the target. A gun in each hand doesn't lead to 360 degrees of uncontrolled fire. Really, this is one of those things I think people should try so they get it out of their system and realize that it just isn't that effective for real world use. But it is fun.

But I hate the argument that seems to be popping up: "THAT GUY can't be trusted with two guns! I don't know him, what if he's dangerous?!?"

What if I said, "THAT GUY can't be trusted to walk around with a concelaed weapon! I don't know him, what if he's dangerous?!?"
 
Ive done it, had fun doing it. I did not hit crap, but it was fun trying. I was not in an indoor range and I do not go to ranges frequented by range nazi's.
 
SansSouci said:
As long as safety was not compromised, who the hell cares how he was shooting?
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If you'd ever worked at a public range, you'd care. Here's what happens at public ranges: Mr. Experienced Shooter does something like draw from the holster and fire, and he does it safely and effectively. So the local punk who is at the range showing off to his girlfriend sees it, and wants to imitate Mr. Experienced Shooter, and he shoots himself in the foot in the process.

It could be even worse with firing two guns simultaneously: Who cares if Mr. Experienced Shooter is doing it safely? The punk kid showing off to his girlfriend who tries to imitate Mr. Experienced Shooter; that's who I'm worried about.
 
FWIW you can shoot accurately double fisted, if the guns have similar sights and you hold both guns at eye level and as wide apart as your eyes, tilt them slightly towards each other just a bit and focus beyond the sights, you can "center" the double vision of the sights into one central sight, and fire fairly quickly while actually aiming and with a decent amount of accuracy. You can't just rock and roll both pistols, you have to either fire them together and let them both reset into the same sight picture, or fire them alternately and let each one settle again.

Note: Not for heavy recoiling guns, I have only done it with 9mm and light loaded .45acp rounds...I wouldn't try it with anything hot and heavy, you are holding the guns close enough together that you could potentially have a problem with them hitting each other during recoil.

Its definitely a novelty, not something I'd recommend other than for kicks, but doable and not unsafe if as others have noted, proper gun handling is observed.
Guns are fun:)
 
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You feeling unsafe because he didn't not hit the target as often as YOU think he should have hit it, is YOUR problem and something you need to deal with, leave the other guys alone…
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Take another gander at my post. I did nothing but increase my vigilance for safety issues.

The simple fact is, if you make it look like you don't know what you are doing with firearms, people are going to trust you less while you are holding a firearm. Feel free to ignore those folks if you want. I have never made a stink or chewed anyone out, but I have left early, and I reserve the right to do so again.
 
Unsafe, possibly. But possibly not depending on how he was actually handeling the guns
Discourteous, probably. Just because the alarm it may cause others on the line.
Probably not a wise thing to do with a lot of others around to complain. Even if he is well practiced at it, and does it in complete safety.
 
I've shot two pistols rapid fire before. I've shot rifles and shotguns from the hip. I've even shot a submachinegun from the hip, one handed. I would have shot two submachineguns from the hip but a second was unavailable.

Call me unsafe. Tell me I didn't know what I was doing. Go ahead.

I had fun. Ammo was wasted. Nobody was hurt and nothing was damaged.

Believe it or not, it is still possible to be careful when shooting like that.
 
Guys...don't get me wrong. I an not advocating doing anything unsafe while at a public range. No where did I say that. Over the years I have seen enough SFBs with guns, that I now pretty much only shoot at one of my two personal ranges to reduce my exposure to those types. My issue is the condemning of a shooter solely on assumption, even tho he has not shown to be unsafe or irresponsible and has shot his firearms within the parameters of the rules at the range he is shooting at. Trying to justify these assumptions by saying it cannot be done safely because it's not humanly possible is absurd. Is it safe for everyone to do it? No, never said it was. Just said I need proof that someone is unsafe before I tattoo that big "L" on their forehead. Is it dangerous for everyone to do? I say not.....others say yes. Guess we agree to disagree. The condemning of the majority of gun owners because of the irresponsible acts of a few by those that advocate gun control, is what many here complain about the most. We don't want ourselves to be judged by the actions of others, but then we turn around and blindly judge someone else. Seems a bit ironic.


To the OP....sorry if I grouped your post into a type of thread that has become all too common here. Just seems to be the just of so many of the posts here anymore. Sometimes as I read a "dumb guy at the LGS, had to tell him how wrong he was!" thread, I wonder if that "dumb guy" is saying the same thing about the author of the thread on another gun forum.
 
TailGator: "The simple fact is, if you make it look like you don't know what you are doing with firearms, people are going to trust you less while you are holding a firearm."

That fast shooting guy you mentioned in post #56 might have been making a function test of different ammo and/or different magazines, and was more concerned with FTF's, FTE's, etc at high speed than accuracy.
 
That fast shooting guy you mentioned in post #56 might have been making a function test of different ammo and/or different magazines, and was more concerned with FTF's, FTE's, etc at high speed than accuracy.
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You are free to assume that and assume that he is perfectly safe and competent. I keep just a wee bit of an eye on the folks around me when they are handling loaded firearms, and when they do things that are unusual I keep just a wee bit more of an eye on them. Let's both hope that we all get home safe and let it go.
 
"Guy must have thought he was in Hollywood. I have never seen anyone grab two semi-autos and start blasting away like that at a range."

Jeez. Was he wearing his Hopalong Cassidy hat, scarf and chaps? :rolleyes:
 
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