Scenario, you are sleeping at night!

A bit of an afterthought here. Being able to spot a "fake" cop or recognize a real one would definitely help. Certain indicators will let you know. You should be able to spot the badge of your local PD is one. Do the uniforms match? Does one of the officers have long hair and a beard? Are they packing Desert Eagles and Raging Bulls? In essence, do they look more like the crew from Dog The Bounty Hunter than cops? These are just clues and by no means a certainty, but something to think about.
 
I would...

I have a family to protect, Theres not enough time for me to look out of the window to see if theres lights flashing, Most likely if the Police are serving a warrant lights won't be flashing (My assumption) They would want to have the upper hand by making themselves unknown so the criminal doesnt jump out of the window or escape by other means. I would grab my 500 from next tot my bed, and at the same time tell my wife to go into the closet. Rack a shell into the chamber QUIETLY, theres nothing better than the element of surprise, I would have my back to the wall about a 2 feet away from where the door will slam into when the intruder kicks in the bedroom door and then when he did kick the door in I would blow his head through the opposite wall. Realistically.
 
EricReynolds...

... long(ish) hair and a beard, looking like a character from Dog the Bounty Hunter would actually describe a narcotics detective friend of mine to a T.

Your cop recognition rules may not work so well, if it's a narcotics vs SWAT raid.

Just a thought.
 
A bit of an afterthought here. Being able to spot a "fake" cop or recognize a real one would definitely help.
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Good point, and where I'm moving to should make that far easier than where I am currently living. I'm currently at 20 times the population I'm moving to. I'm making it a point to get to know all the police officers at the new location, something that's virtually impossible here.
 
Lights and sirens or not I haven't done anything to warrant a raid. They will be challenged to show ID or they aren't getting into my bedroom without killing me. Old Bohunks can get ornery and the cops I know are local and know me. If they had to talk to me they would call me down to the station or outside to talk to them. If they came crashing into my house breaking doors, screaming and yelling they wouldn't be local and I would not be polite.
 
Unless you live in a small town that has a police force, its pretty much impossible too. Around here, we have no local police. We do have the State Police coving the area, but they are spread pretty thin, and you rarely see one. I dont think Ive ever seen the same one twice when I did.

Personally, after living in places where we had local township cops, I much prefer having the Troopers around, even if they really dont seem to be. They seem to be a much more professional and level headed group, and theres a lot less poultry turds in the vicinity when they are.

Besides, they use radar and I got a detector! :D
 
Besides, they use radar and I got a detector!
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Won't help, our boys use laser, by the time you detect it you been caught. Don't do no good to run either because unless you have out of state plates they won't chase you. They know where you live. :D
 
MLeake, I hear you there, which is why I said it's no kind of certainty, but something to think about. I know the uniforms and badges of my local, state and federal agencies. If a bunch of guys carrying guns that didn't look department issued and their uniforms look like they have been outfitted by Galls or a uniform store, I'd notice that. Beards and long hair are often used by undercovers for the reason that most police have grooming policies.
 
It is unfortunate that we have to hard bolt our doors not only from criminals but from cops as well. Perhaps it will be better if homeowners knew the procedural requirements of law enforcement especially in a "kicked door warrant situation” For example, the officers have to establish a form of contact and identification with the homeowner once they are around the premise before breaking down their bedroom door. In turn, the homeowner has to call 911 and verify before complying with the orders of the officers especially at night time.

But I also understand the officers’ point of view with the element of surprise in mind. This would not have been a problem for all of us had law enforcement always invade the right house. But occasionally innocent family lives are put at great risk.
 
After reading the first 40 posts, I have to comment. While I have a great deal of respect for police, if they behave like a criminal, they take a lot of risk by doing so. Serving a warrant without knocking on the door first is plain stupid and the results cannot possible be faulted by the homeowner who has no idea what on earth is going on.

As much as I do respect cops, when I hear my door breaking down and the alarm going off, that is exactly what I've prepared for by keeping a gun close at hand. At that point, rational thought is not likely to be a part of the equation and training and instinct are going to take over.

Cops and their commanding officers should very well know that and not run the risk, either to their officers or to the homeowner. In that business, mistakes are not tolerable.

After all is said and done, the fallout of such a tragedy should be lesson enough to keep it from happening again.

--Wag--
 
I do believe that this thread is a very interesting one for people to read. I would especially encourage the LOE's on TFL to bring this up with your SWAT, Warrant and Narcotics officers the next time you you have a strategy meetings

my .02 cents
 
Seems like there's an awful lot of chest thumping going on here. Too many of us think we are going to take out the tactical response team that unluckily decides to kick our door in by mistake.

Do you really think they are not prepared to face armed, determined adversaries when they come in? Folks, these people are (or at least should be) trained to come in and take control. Your best chance of survival is to not be pointing a firearm at them when they come in. Taking one of them out before you die is no consolation at all. You won't get any points for it and nobody's going to slap your son on the shoulder and laugh about how you stuck it to the man on your way down.

On the other hand, your best chance of survival against a bunch of punks posing as LEO's may well be an armed response.

The real challenge is telling the difference...

To me, it seems the kick-proof doors would work better if they were used for bedroom doors rather than outside doors. That way you'd get the warning when the outside door was kicked. The entry team most likely won't be expecting hardened doors inside the dwelling so you'll have some time to make the 911 call after they get inside and you can communicate through the bedroom door before they come through.

Everybody closes their bedroom door for fire safety anyway, right? Might as well lock it too.
 
On the other hand, your best chance of survival against a bunch of punks posing as LEO's may well be an armed response.

The real challenge is telling the difference...
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Thats why you challenge them for ID. If they don;t do it and are so adrenaline charged that they just keep coming they lose their protection. By challenging them you have just told them you are amenable to talking to a police officer but if they aren't police its going to get awfully uncomfortable for everybody.

If they kick my door in they really have the wrong address because I'm just an old fogey minding my own business, no criminal activity on my property or in my house.
 
I did a Google on the words -swat team wrong house-. I went through some the hits and it appears that SWAT teams all over the country have stormed the wrong home, sometimes with tragic consequences; 80 year old people gong to the hospital for heart attacks triggered by the raids, children in homes with gunfights, etc. Some of the incidents were caused by SWAT carelessness; hitting a house at 1234 NW Terrace, when the real target’s address was 1234 NW Drive and many of the erroneous addresses came from “reliable informants”.

Any human endeavor repeated often enough will result in errors, but given the consequences of a SWAT team hitting a wrong address, processes need to instituted to prevent such errors. Before surgery is started, a “time out” is done, to make sure that the right patient is on the table, the correct surgical predoceure is listed, all personnel in the room are identified, any special equipment needed is in place, etc, etc. Demote SWAT supervisors commanding wrong address raids to the parking ticket brigade for a year, with a pay reduction, and the wrong address raids will stop.

Here are some news accounts of SWAT hitting the wrong house.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html

http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/SWAT-team-storms-wrong-house-83504747.html

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/10/longview-swat-team-raids-wrong-home.html

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=32704

http://wsbradio.com/localnews/2010/05/woman-hospitalized-following-b.html

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/429/badraid.shtml

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31117

http://slumz.boxden.com/f5/apr-11-swat-team-busts-up-wrong-house-1074701/
 
I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but…

if I understand this correctly, in order to remain ‘safe’ from home invasion, either by criminals or police, my bride and I need to close and lock our bedroom door behind us? I think not. I am not the macho ‘shoot them all and let God sort them out’ type, but I am insulted that free Americans must lock the doors inside our home behind us in order to sleep safely. Maybe a better idea is to have law enforcement make damned sure that they know what the hell they are doing before they do it. Is it asking too much to expect that the police raid the proper home? Some of the anecdotal stories here have shown that the police raided the wrong home and continued raids when their warrant was invalid. Why did they do that? Their actions were illegal and were not made by mistake. The police made a conscious decision to execute entrance using an invalid warrant and then they arrested the home’s occupant for self-defense. I guess the US Constitution is rapidly becoming a urinal cookie.

Also, anyone that thinks that the bad guys won’t scream “Police” when breaking onto a home is not using their brain. Of course bad guys will say and do whatever they can to make their entry faster and/or safer. Were I a bad guy, I certainly would yell “Police” upon unauthorized entry. It is a logical tactic.

So, coupling the bad guy’s strategy of using police tactics to enter a home with the police possibly breaking down the door, it seems that the folks that will pay the most are the home’s occupants. And that, to put it in one word, is just plain wrong.

I understand that the police have a very difficult job especially when executing a warrant to a possible drug home but they must be 100% sure they are entering the correct house and that their warrant is valid. I have four cops that work for me (one retired and three active) and they have told me to yell and duck (as most here have said is the best answer). They agree that the safest option is the barricade and 911 call recommendation but the right answer does not make it just. It is a terrible statement about our society and its general disrespect of the Constitution that homeowners must physically and mentally prepare themselves for unauthorized home invasion from both criminals and police. And to think that homeowners must lock all doors behind them might be the safest answer, but not the best answer. Although I would not want to be in the police officer’s shoes when executing a warrant, I also don’t want to be the legal homeowner whose sleep is being interrupted by police or criminals.
 
COASTY said:
I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but… [\QUOTE]

Maybe I'm getting old and seen too much official corruption. While I expect citizens should expect some type of 'honor' out of police, I've pretty well lost faith overall. From the Dallas Police "Cocaine Cowboys" steal-swap-smear decades long drug dealing, to Houston Police virtual murder for hire, I just overhead a conversation yesterday that "America's Toughest Sheriff" has officers pilfering ammo from their armory to give to family members, apparently a common practice. One of the family members who works at Cabelas was bragging about all the free ammo he gets from his son the deputy. Even if that came to light, it's unlikely that any criminal action would be taken.

Oh well, after seeing that one local PD's IA department discounts 98 percent of all complaints against officers, then finding out what their criteria is for upholding a complaint (you basically need a news crew on-scene or a confession from the officer), it's clear the cops can't police themselves, so why should they behave?

It doesn't appear to a new phenomena: Remember Serpico? The NYPD police commissioner, after watching the movie said Well, 75% of the NYPD cops are honest. Was that an admission that (only) 1 out of 4 aren't?

So back to the question at hand, "...sleeping at night!", with all due respect and no offense toward any single officer, if anyone solo or from any organization breaks in to my little house in a threatening manner, I'm not asking for ID. As a whole, I see little to no reason to trust guys with guns and badges, as I know I've done nothing wrong.

I expected cops to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, courteous..... Boy was I a sap.
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Glock, I am not saying that the police are corrupt, but when they knowingly use an improper warrant and raid an innocent family sleeping in their beds, that is a mistake… a HUGE mistake and one that they ought to know better than to make. But, and I asked this the other day to a cop friend, if the police are the people dedicated to protect and serve, why do they need locks on their lockers at work? All I received was a ‘rolling eyed’ grin. And this from a retired cop that worked internal affairs for three years. (On a side note, this is the guy from whom I bought my company and I wrote him into the deal for five years.)

I could never be a police officer. If someone kept being an ass, they would get slammed. If they spit at me, slammed. Pulled a knife on me, shot, etc. Cops have a much fuse than I do. I thank them for their dedication and work.

I guess I can’t really answer what I would do until I am confronted with the situation. I hope that I would have enough time to determine whether they were good or bad guys. I have the feeling that I would shoot AFTER making sure the intruders know that I was armed and ready, willing and able to fire in self-defense. I pray that I am never confronted with such decisions.

Ak, they do have a secret knock. It is that big, metal pipe used to break in the door! I know that would open most of my doors! :o
 
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