SBR a dying concept?

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk

Quote:
Citation please.

No need, I understand your ignorance on the matter as Texas has no laws to the effect, however, many states do.

Horsehockey. If you can't or refuse to back up your claim it's probably not true.
AGAIN, citation please. When you make the claim that "many states" prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in your car you should have an idea of what "many states" you are talking about.

They are usually listed under game and fish laws. Yes they are misdemeanors, but they are still the law.

Again, NAME THEM.

Quote:
you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

Quote:
True. But getting permission is easier than getting a CHL/CCW/LTC and can cover every state and a calendar year...it's done all the time.

Carry license is not the topic here, nice deflection.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form20

Keep telling yourself that it is just as easy to transport an NFA item as a pistol, it does not make it anymore truthful.

It's not a "deflection" to show that a CHL/CCW/LTC is "permission".......just like a 5320.20 is "permission".

Nanuk

Quote:
I'm aware of that.....what Nanuck is claiming is that there are states that specifically prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in a car.

SBR = Short Barreled Rifle. They are mostly listed as Game and Fish laws.

I think everyone is clear as to what "SBR" is the acronym for..........what we're not clear on is what states prohibit carrying a loaded SBR in your car.

You have yet to provide a single citation that shows such. If it's "many states" surely you can come up with a dozen or so?

 

[ttarp]

I'm glad the pistols work for you, I don't have the skill nor the inclination to take the time training with a pistol to the same proficiency I have with a stock. And don't take that as sarcasm, I'm genuinely happy it works for you, and for those who like the braces as well. I may seem a fool to you, but in my circumstances a stamp and a stock work best for me.

 

[raimius]

Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms). I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

As many firearms discussions go, I'll advocate the correct answer is "get both!"

 

[Nanuk]

You have yet to provide a single citation that shows such. If it's "many states" surely you can come up with a dozen or so?

You are the one so set about citations. Do your own research.

Here, even you might find something with GOOGLE.

https://www.google.com/search?q=loaded+rifle+in+cars+game+and+fish+laws&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Nanuk]

Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms). I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

He is wrong and just wants to bully his way through.

 

[dogtown tom]

raimius Dogtown Tom, if a state prohibits carrying any kind of loaded rifle in a car, SBRs would be included (unless their law defines "rifle" as not including NFA firearms).

I agree.
But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"..........I want to know where, yet he refuses to provide a citation. Probably because he doesn't have one.

He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

While it possible that there are some states that prohibit transporting any loaded firearm in your car, I'll bet that applies to equally to rifles, shotguns, pistols and SBR's...........not specifically only SBR's.

I'm not sure why you are trying to be so picky about this. If I cannot carry a rifle, then I cannot carry a short-barreled rifle.

True, and I'm not disagreeing with that. In fact that's probably correct in the overwhelming majority of states......that you can open carry a rifle or SBR. Why I'm being so "picky"? Because Nanuk is pulling laws out of thin air. And that's wrong.

 

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk

Quote:
You have yet to provide a single citation that shows such. If it's "many states" surely you can come up with a dozen or so?

You are the one so set about citations. Do your own research.

Sorry, YOU made the claim, YOU get to back it up. I've already shot down your supposed ability to carry "wherever".....now man up and provide a citation.

Nanuk He is wrong and just wants to bully his way through.

No need for name calling, but there is a need for you to back up your claims. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense and cluttering up a thread with ignorance.

 

[dogtown tom]

Nanuk Here, even you might find something with GOOGLE.

https://www.google.com/search?q=load...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Well, I did......the FIRST result:
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/ss/ssfiretrns.pdf
Doesn't say A DARN THING ABOUT SBR'S.......but prohibits transporting ANY loaded firearm INCLUDING a handgun without a MN license!!!!

Same with the SECOND

The THIRD?........has to do with HUNTING ONLY! If you aren't hunting that citation doesn't apply. You should know that being an ex LEO.

Oh, and the FIFTH result?.............Arkansas doesn't prohibit transporting a loaded firearm including an SBR in your car.

Sometimes Google is your friend and sometimes Google isn't.

 

[zukiphile]

He is wrong and just wants to bully his way through.

No need for name calling, but there is a need for you to back up your claims.

"Bully" above is a verb, not a name. Moreover, you appear to be asking for Nanul to provide citation for your misunderstanding rather than his claim. I'll unpack this for you.

But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"

That is incorrect. The claim wasn't that a prohibition was specific to SBRs but that the legal treatment is more restrictive in some places than for a pistol. The latter clearly true. Repetitively asking for citation for the former isn't insightful.

Ohio treats rifles and pistols differently. One example is the way loaded items are treated in vehicles. There are exceptions for items carried under a concealed carry permit, but those are only for handguns.

He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

He actually claimed "I can legally carry a loaded pistol in many places I cannot a carbine or SBR."

See the difference?

While it possible that there are some states that prohibit transporting any loaded firearm in your car, I'll bet that applies to equally to rifles, shotguns, pistols and SBR's...........not specifically only SBR's.

Happily for you, no one took the other end of that bet.

 

[Nanuk]

Tom, an SBR ( SHORT BARRELED RIFLE) is a RIFLE.....It belongs in that classification, A pistol is not a RIFLE......Anywhere you cannot carry a loaded RIFLE you cannot carry a loaded SBR. I already gave you a retraction, I said I miss spoke, I guess you just want to argue about nothing.

I am not pulling laws from nothing, I originally used the term SBR, when I suppose I should have used rifle so that you could more clearly understand.

 

[dogtown tom]

zukiphile

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom
But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"

That is incorrect. The claim wasn't that a prohibition was specific to SBRs but that the legal treatment is more restrictive in some places than for a pistol. The latter clearly true. Repetitively asking for citation for the former isn't insightful.

No actually it WAS his claim in post #32:

YNanuk: ou cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places, you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

His claim was specific to SBR's and whether it's easier to transport a loaded pistol. Further his belief that one does not need "permission" to carry a pistol is clearly untrue. I know there are states that prohibit any form of SBR's.....but there are also states that prohibit carrying a pistol without the appropriate license/permit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogtown tom
He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

He actually claimed "I can legally carry a loaded pistol in many places I cannot a carbine or SBR."

See the difference?

No, his first claim was

Nanuk: I can carry my AR pistol pretty much every where I go without asking anyone's permission.

Even with LEOSA that isn't true.


Bottom line is transporting an SBR interstate requires filing an ATF form once a year. No big deal.

Carrying an AR pistol? you'll need a license(s) with reciprocity and need to follow the concealed carry laws and open carry laws as I linked to above.

 

[jmorris]

Not on topic except for goofy rules but I always thought it was funny that a pistol couldn't be shipped USPS unless it was full auto, then that turned it from "pistol" to "machine gun" then it's OK to ship USPS....

 

[jmorris]

Bottom line is transporting an SBR interstate requires filing an ATF form once a year. No big deal.

As long as you go only one place with it each year, know the date(s), give them the reason why, tell them where from, where to and how. Also you have to notify them if life happens and your plans change. All if you submit the form(s) far enough in advance to get them approved. Then it isn't a big deal.

 

[armoredman]

Since I travel from state to state about once every 30-40 years, that aspect of NFA '34 wouldn't impact my life much, though for people who travel a lot, I can see that being a small problem.

 

[zukiphile]

But that isn't Nanuks claim.
He believes SBR's are specifically prohibited that "You cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places"

That is incorrect. The claim wasn't that a prohibition was specific to SBRs but that the legal treatment is more restrictive in some places than for a pistol. The latter clearly true. Repetitively asking for citation for the former isn't insightful.

No actually it WAS his claim in post #32:

you cannot carry loaded, in your car a registered SBR in many places, you cannot cross state lines with an SBR without prior written permission from BATFE which specifies where you are going and for what purpose. You do not need to do that with a pistol.

His claim was specific to SBR's and whether it's easier to transport a loaded pistol.

Emphasis added.

Follow the bolded portions above. An observation that the law of a state will treat an SBR as a rifle isn't a prohibition specific to SBRs.

He started posting about his supposed ability to carry his AR pistol anywhere without permission and I told him why that wasn't true, now he's inventing laws about SBR's.

He actually claimed "I can legally carry a loaded pistol in many places I cannot a carbine or SBR."

See the difference?

No, his first claim was

Nanuk: I can carry my AR pistol pretty much every where I go without asking anyone's permission.

Emphasis added.

That you don't see a differences amongst the bolded illustrates the specific manner in which you've misunderstood Nanuk's assertion.

That you felt so strongly about your misreading that you had to post about three times in 15 minutes and maintain that Nanuk needed to provide citation for your misreading lends support to the idea that you sought to "bully [your] way through" a point rather than grasp it.



The silver lining from the colloquy is some greater clarity. In addition to the burdens of NFA regulation associated with an SBR, one would expect each state to treat it as a rifle rather than a pistol. Where state ccw laws are geared toward pistol carry, an item classified as a pistol may permit use with fewer restrictions.

I don't know if that means that the SBR concept is dying. I am not a student of that genre, but a real stock seems like one of the key advantages of a rifle.

 

[Nanuk]

Carrying an AR pistol? you'll need a license(s) with reciprocity and need to follow the concealed carry laws and open carry laws as I linked to above.

I never denied that. I said "ANYWHERE I GO".

 

[taymag]

I have multiple braces and SBRs.. The only time a gun with a brace even leaves the safe is if I leave the state and didn't file a travel request...

I love the enthusiasm of them being the same but its night and day to me

 

[Nanuk]

I have multiple braces and SBRs.. The only time a gun with a brace even leaves the safe is if I leave the state and didn't file a travel request...

In your state can you legally carry a loaded rifle in your car?

I love the enthusiasm of them being the same but its night and day to me

I do not think anyone said they were the same. I have maintained that there is not enough difference to get worked up over.

 

[DMK]

I'll throw another one out there:

In North Carolina, one can not legally conceal a rifle or shotgun with or without a CCL (which is a Concealed Handgun Licence in NC BTW).

I can however legally conceal a loaded AR pistol. I can legally carry it concealed in a laptop case, backpack, etc. I can keep it out of sight, but within arms reach in a vehicle.

In NC, one can't legally do any of those things with an SBR.

 

[bandanabandit1]

I think it is a dying concept for the reasons you outlined in the OP. However there will always be a group of guys that want to get the stamp, whether they are going for a correct build or want the added benefit of having an adjustable stock.