Running gun battle in Denver
- Thread starter jimpeel
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
JR47 is right. If extenuating circumstances come to light some of us may have to eat our words. I am okay with that. It would not be the first time I admitted I was wrong.
However, in a situation like this one it is not a matter of needing evidence to make what he did seem irresponsible. It is the exact opposite. There would need to be extreme circumstances to make rolling down a public road with businesses, trailer parks, and homes nearby firing out a window to be the right thing to do.
However, in a situation like this one it is not a matter of needing evidence to make what he did seem irresponsible. It is the exact opposite. There would need to be extreme circumstances to make rolling down a public road with businesses, trailer parks, and homes nearby firing out a window to be the right thing to do.
I watched the news tonight and <sigh> it seems that there was no "running gun battle" as the press and channel 7 stated it to be.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13273850/detail.html
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13273850/detail.html
Chase, Shootout Leads To Overnight Manhunt, Arrest
Home Invasion Results Chase, Shooting
POSTED: 7:40 pm MDT May 7, 2007
UPDATED: 11:19 pm MDT May 8, 2007
DENVER -- A suspect was captured Tuesday morning after a bungled home invasion led to a high-speed chase, a shootout near Interstate 70 and Tower Road, and an all-night manhunt.
The suspect was captured after police dogs found him hiding underneath a mobile home in an Arapahoe County trailer park. He was taken into custody at 9:40 a.m., nearly 12 hours after the manhunt began, 7NEWS reported.
Another suspect in the home invasion had been arrested Monday night, when he jumped out of a fleeing vehicle.
Neither men have been identified.
The strange string of events began just after 7:30 p.m. in the 21000 block of East 50th Avenue in Denver, when two armed men showed up at a home and asked for a person by name.
Ricardo Garcia, who lives at the home, says one of the men asked for someone named Robert. No one by that name lives there.
Garcia says another man, who was out of view, showed him what appeared to be a semi-automatic weapon and stormed into the house.
"I had to protect my family," Garcia told 7NEWS reporter Lane Lyon. Garcia says he began struggling and fighting with one of the men and even got a gun away from the man. Garcia says he tried to shoot but the gun was not loaded.
Both suspects then fled the home.
Garcia says when he noticed their red, Dodge Durango did not have a license plate, he jumped into his black Escalade and began chasing the men.
Police say shots were fired, though it wasn't clear if the gunfire was exchanged between the two vehicles. (It would be quite a feat with an unloaded firearm) No one was reported being hit, said Detective Virginia Quinones.
Garcia said he was shot at by the suspects, but did not return fire.
Officers made several attempts to stop the victim from chasing the suspects. Eventually, a police officer asked OnStar to call the victim and tell him to pull over. He did stop in the 32000 block of East Colfax and was questioned. He was not arrested.
Police continued to chase the Durango and at one point, the passenger in the getaway vehicle bailed out as it continued to head east. He was picked up by Arapahoe County searchers.
Police then intensified the manhunt and set up a perimeter near Interstate 70 and Airpark Boulevard, where they thought the second suspect might be after he had abandoned his car.
SWAT teams swarmed the mobile home park and reverse-911 calls were placed to residents in the area. Residents were urged to stay inside and lock their doors. They were told that a man with a gun was at large and they were warned to be cautious.
"That's what I moved out here for -- so that I didn't have this stuff going on in my neighborhood -- and it still happened," said Paul Hines. (<sigh> The old "It can't happen here" lament again)
Authorities conducted a systematic search of the area overnight and continued to look for the gunman. Police dogs were used on the ground and helicopters were used in the air to search for the suspect. No vehicles were allowed in or out of the area until they were searched.
Then on Tuesday morning, a police dog led authorities to an area underneath a vacant mobile home and forced the suspect out in the open.
"I didn't hear him say anything. He was shaking on the ground and he looked injured. He had blood on his shoulder," said witness Gary Beach.
A K-9 had bitten the suspect in the shoulder as it tried to force the suspect out, police said. The suspect was taken to Denver Health to be treated for his minor wounds.
Everybody in the mobile home park, who were up all night on pins and needles, are now breathing a sigh of relief to the end of a manhunt and the end of a long, chaotic night.
Copyright 2007 by TheDenverChannel.com. All rights reserved.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
That still does not answer any questions for me. In fact some of it makes the guy doing the chasing look worse. If indeed shots were fired and he was the only one with a loaded gun it would have to have been him firing without even being fired at first.
I noticed alot of the comments were only validated with a "Garcia said". I know one thing for sure from my small LEO career and that is people tend to lie when they fear they may have over reacted.
The things I am noticing from this story are the fact that the whole invasion scenerio seems very odd, that he said they "appeared" to have a semi-auto weapon, that he chose to wrestle while outnumbered and thinking they had a gun on him, that the Durango conveniently has no plate in this version, and that the police did not make a statement as whether or not they recovered a firearm.
I am sure the investigators are seeing some really big red flags and lookign into this version of the story too. It will be interesting to see what transpires. I will not be suprised if it varies greatly from this version and if there turns out to be a previous relationship between the Garcia and the perps.
I noticed alot of the comments were only validated with a "Garcia said". I know one thing for sure from my small LEO career and that is people tend to lie when they fear they may have over reacted.
The things I am noticing from this story are the fact that the whole invasion scenerio seems very odd, that he said they "appeared" to have a semi-auto weapon, that he chose to wrestle while outnumbered and thinking they had a gun on him, that the Durango conveniently has no plate in this version, and that the police did not make a statement as whether or not they recovered a firearm.
I am sure the investigators are seeing some really big red flags and lookign into this version of the story too. It will be interesting to see what transpires. I will not be suprised if it varies greatly from this version and if there turns out to be a previous relationship between the Garcia and the perps.
JuanCarlos
New member
Seriously. Seriously.
PBP, I see where you're coming from...but after reading this story I think I'm going to have to wait a while before commenting any further on this one.
This is a bit out of hand, isn't it? Now we're trying to define conditions that are the opposite of what was stated. You can't jump on the back of a person, claiming that the story said he did one thing, and later jump back again, using supositions not in evidence, when you discover that you were 100% wrong.
It sounds more like some of us are going to condemn him, simply because he appeared in a news article. Wow, as was mentioned earlier, we're going to out-Brady the Brady bunch!!!
Take a deep breath, and step away from the key-board. Nobody has to get in any deeper.
It sounds more like some of us are going to condemn him, simply because he appeared in a news article. Wow, as was mentioned earlier, we're going to out-Brady the Brady bunch!!!
Take a deep breath, and step away from the key-board. Nobody has to get in any deeper.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I am not condemning anyone. I am looking at this from an investigative standpoint. it is habit. I was in MI for 8yrs after all. There are alot of redflags in this story.
These are things that are going to hav to be discovered. Like I said before, this type of random home invasion is almost unheard of without a previour connection between the perp and the victim.
I thought he took the gun from the perp's and I thought the gun was unloaded? I do not see where he claims they had another gun and if they did wouldn't they have shot him when he overpower both men and then tried to shoot them with their own weapon?
Once again I thought the perp's gun was unloaded. Who fired the shots if not Garcia? And who's gun was he using?
These are things that are going to hav to be discovered. Like I said before, this type of random home invasion is almost unheard of without a previour connection between the perp and the victim.
I can only say that if someone invaded my home, the confrontation would be over when one of us was dead. If I had to chase the S.O.B. I would. He would never have the opportunity to do it to me again, or to anyone else. If you find a rattlesnake in your garden, you don't wait for it to bite your kids before you kill it.
You weak sisters who want someone else to protect you can wait for help, or decry the efforts of the police when they fail. But I 'll tell you that every time a violent criminal escapes, you are in more danger. You came into this world naked and alone, and you will leave it the same way. Your health, happiness, and safety for your family is on you. Not the authorities.
One more thing, if you don't have the full story details, wait before criticizing the actions of the ones involved. You don't know what happened, what was done or by whom. reserve your judgement until all of the facts are known.
You weak sisters who want someone else to protect you can wait for help, or decry the efforts of the police when they fail. But I 'll tell you that every time a violent criminal escapes, you are in more danger. You came into this world naked and alone, and you will leave it the same way. Your health, happiness, and safety for your family is on you. Not the authorities.
One more thing, if you don't have the full story details, wait before criticizing the actions of the ones involved. You don't know what happened, what was done or by whom. reserve your judgement until all of the facts are known.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
You mean just like you reserved judgement by calling people "weak sisters" without knowing anything about them or their reasons for their opinions?
The news stated that the second perp was also armed with an AK type weapon and shoved it in his chest. He then takes on the guy with the less powerful weapon while the other guy stands around doing nothing -- not even a rifle butt to the head.
The homeowner grabs the firearm of the perp he is wrestling with and tries to shoot it but it is unloaded. The other guy fails to shoot the homeowner with his loaded firearm. The shots fired during the chase were from the lead car and the guy following had no means to respond because he was still in possession of an unloaded firearm.
The cops are on the phone with the guy and apparently he was in their way when they joined the chase and they had to have On-Star call him and relay threir orders to cease and desist from the chase; which he then did immediately.
HERE is the link to the webpage of the Denver Channel which has video.
The homeowner grabs the firearm of the perp he is wrestling with and tries to shoot it but it is unloaded. The other guy fails to shoot the homeowner with his loaded firearm. The shots fired during the chase were from the lead car and the guy following had no means to respond because he was still in possession of an unloaded firearm.
The cops are on the phone with the guy and apparently he was in their way when they joined the chase and they had to have On-Star call him and relay threir orders to cease and desist from the chase; which he then did immediately.
HERE is the link to the webpage of the Denver Channel which has video.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Where is the info about the AK? Why did one bad guy stand aside armed (or unarmed) and not assist the other? What was the reason for this armed invasion? This does not make sense to me.
The report was verbal yesterday on KMGH as I recall. There seem to be some issues here as you have stated and I agree.
However ...
We are depending on the media and their "rush to judgement" mentality for good information; which they rarely ever seem to get right. They are more interested in being able to say "As you heard here first in our exclusive ..."
However ...
We are depending on the media and their "rush to judgement" mentality for good information; which they rarely ever seem to get right. They are more interested in being able to say "As you heard here first in our exclusive ..."
Ok, so now it appears that the weapon the follower, our hero, or the most dangerous man in the world, depending upon viewpoint, had was EMPTY. The bad guys had more than one, and one was LOADED. Ergo, the BAD GUYS were the ones doing the shooting. Now, unless you're going to somehow blame the homeowner for endangering the general public by following the perps, prompting them to fire upon him, he seems to have been within his rights. I can understand how he might have missed LEOs behind him, as the truck in front of him, shooting, should have focused his attention. The LEOs, though, were able to reach him easily, and he terminated his part of the chase. Those same LEOs would have been clueless without his following, and vectoring them in.
So, it appears that the Good Guys fired ZERO shots in this entire venture. The bad guys attacked one, failed, were pursued and captured by the rest, without any additional shooting after they tried to lose their tail.
What a difference a day makes.
So, it appears that the Good Guys fired ZERO shots in this entire venture. The bad guys attacked one, failed, were pursued and captured by the rest, without any additional shooting after they tried to lose their tail.
What a difference a day makes.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
How did you come to that conclusion? I have seen no evidence of such so far. I have seen no evidence of a second weapon nor of Garcia being fired upon by the perps as he pursued them. I have seen no recovered weapons by the police nor verification of who was shooting. if the bad guys were the ones with the loaded gun why did it go to a car chase? Why wasn't Garcia gunned down when he tried to wrestle away the first "unloaded" gun?
Once again, I am not putting blame on anyone. I am asking the qiestions that ANY investigator should be asking.
Let's quit the hair-splitting here.
1. The info on the AK type weapon came verbally on the news, not in the print version. It may be in the video that I can't play.
2. Bad guys don't always operate with a "combat mindset" and may choke when things get out of control.
This wouldn't be the first time one of the BGs was inept with a firearm. Two guys robbed a bank a few years back and one guy's gun FTF'd twice. It was later discovered he didn't know that he had to run the slide to load it.
From all indications Garcia had an empty pistol taken from one of the BGs. Shots were supposedly fired which would come from either the aforementioned AK or some other weapon that might have been in the Durango.
The only thing we know for sure is that the media will never report a story accurately.
1. The info on the AK type weapon came verbally on the news, not in the print version. It may be in the video that I can't play.
2. Bad guys don't always operate with a "combat mindset" and may choke when things get out of control.
This wouldn't be the first time one of the BGs was inept with a firearm. Two guys robbed a bank a few years back and one guy's gun FTF'd twice. It was later discovered he didn't know that he had to run the slide to load it.
From all indications Garcia had an empty pistol taken from one of the BGs. Shots were supposedly fired which would come from either the aforementioned AK or some other weapon that might have been in the Durango.
The only thing we know for sure is that the media will never report a story accurately.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
That is for sure. I was just transfering some old VHS tapes to DVD this past week and I was transfering some tapes of the morning news program in Huntsville, AL on which I used to do a segment. During the broadcast they had a story on a man that had just been hospitalized and arrested after shooting himself in the leg while attempting to rob someone at an ATM. They also added that he had been hospitalized and arrested before after shooting himself in the neck by looking down the barrel of his own gun after it misfired while trying to rob a taxicab. A real rocket scientist.
These have nothing to do with that story but look how thin, young, and cute I was back then. <---Shameless self promotion
