Ruger customer service: Don't carry a loaded LCP II

The instruction books of some guns say to keep the ammo and the gun in separate locations, so I am a lot more interested in the mechanics than printed warnings. Depending on the length and pull weight of the trigger, carrying the LCPII chamber empty might actually be practical advice, though. The absence of a firing pin block baffles me as much as the rest of you.
 
I believe the LCP II hammer does move back some upon trigger pull. I examined one in a shop but have not seen the interior of one yet.

If you consider that striker fired pistols all could fire if the slide broke away from the frame, I would not own one that doesn't have a firing pin block. I believe the Ruger American is an example of one, which was a surprise to me.

The LCP II is hammer fired by contrast, and doesn't need a FP block for that specific reason. But I'd prefer it had one anyway (because a fully energized hammer can set off a primer, obviously), unless someone could show me that there's no way the sear could fail and allow the hammer to fall.

The inertia-type firing pin designs could allow firing if dropped on the muzzle (without a FP block), but I understand the distances involved make this very unlikely. I believe the gen 1 original LCP was upgraded with a stronger FP return spring and a titanium firing pin after a recall early on. I'd not be surprised if the LCP II shares this feature.
 
"...this is pretty ridiculous..." You're trying to apply logic where none exists. Ruger has been run by litigation frightened MBA's for eons. Their customer service types are trained to give CYA advice.
 
It seems that the main question is, since this thing is generally carried in the pocket with a round in the chamber and fully cocked, what, besides the hammer-sear engagement keeps it from possibly discharging and injuring someone nearby, or emasculating you, or blowing a hole in the femoral artery, in the event the hammer-sear engagement fails?

I repeat, why is there no firing pin block or hammer block? If the hammer falls from full cock, for any reason, metal fatigue, wear, shoddy assembly, out of tolerance parts … anything, things are going to go badly for somebody.

Nothing is foolproof but the odds favor the addition of something to stop a firing pin-primer contact unless the trigger is pulled.
 
As to mechanical limitations, a Sig P290 isn't much bigger than an LCP, is chambered in 9mm, and has an active firing pin block. The Kahr PM/CM series also has an effective firing pin block. Again, not much bigger than a LCP.
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But both are a lot heavier, which could make a big difference depending on the clothing being worn.
 
I have an LCP (with the "improved trigger"), a Rohrbaugh and a Seecamp. Each of these pocket guns is hammer fired and is double action. None have a trigger block. The hammer is shielded from impact, in some respect, as it sits flush with the slide and is cocked only by trigger pull. The firing pin is separated from the round in the chamber by the tension of a rather strong firing pin spring. When the LCPll and its specs were released, it seemed to me that one would be carrying a single action pocket pistol with a round chambered and the hammer cocked: the only so called "safety" being the Glock type trigger insert. I trust the three guns mentioned above due to the DA operating system and the firing pin spring weight. I would never pocket carry a cocked and unlocked single action firearm.
 
I think Ruger took a step backward with this one.
But, first-time buyers will be impressed with the "improved trigger pull," not understanding the difference between D/A & S/A- or the reasons of each.
 
If the hammer falls from full cock, for any reason, metal fatigue, wear, shoddy assembly, out of tolerance parts … anything, things are going to go badly for somebody.
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This is my exact thought. I'm a little paranoid (what I call "prudent"), which is the very reason I carry in the first place. Any of the things that you've listed is enough to put a .380 through my kneecap - or worse - with no negligence on my part. Its hard to say whether this gun is more dangerous with an empty chamber or a loaded chamber.

I would not purchase this gun if I had it to do over.
 
Quote:
The hammer on the LCP is fully concealed and it is NOT fully cocked when a round is chambered.

Ruger customer service says it is fully cocked when you rack the slide. See their quote in post #1.
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I think we may be mixing up the difference in the LCP and the LCP II.
 
I have an XDs and would carry it (or any handgun) in a pocket only with a pocket holster.

The pistol has been through the recall. It also has a grip safety, which makes it, in my mind, much safer than only a trigger blade "safety" (which it has as well).

Perhaps I am naive, but I carry it chambered and ready to rock and roll. I do not feel unsafe doing so.

I have always been leery of trigger blade-only guns like Glocks.

On the other hand, probably more Glocks are in use as service weapons in the U.S. than any other gun, and how often do you hear of unintended discharges?

Still, seems unnecessarily risky to me, so I don't own Glocks.
 
Quote:
The hammer on the LCP is fully concealed and it is NOT fully cocked when a round is chambered.
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That is an absolutely true statement. The LCP II, the non-improvement, improved model, has the SA cocked, and unlocked hammer.
 
In 2008, Ruger received a small number of reports from the field indicating that LCP® pistols could discharge when dropped onto a hard surface with a round in the chamber. We are firmly committed to safety and would like to retrofit all older LCP® Pistols. The retrofit involves installation of an upgraded hammer mechanism at no charge to the customer.
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Any LCP® pistol with serial number prefix "371" and higher (371-xxxxx) has been manufactured with a new hammer mechanism and tested to "drop safe" standards.

Any LCP pistol with serial number prefix "370" and below was manufactured without the improved hammer and should be returned Free of Charge to Ruger to be upgraded with an additional magazine for the trouble.

Any LCP pistol with serial number prefix "370" AND a diamond mark on the flat portion behind and below the trigger has had the new hammer installed and does not need further modification.


In regards to any "drop test" the only thing I have come up with to this point (no pun intended) is the BATF's 'point' factoring system for imported pistols and revolvers that specifies revolvers have a hammer that retracts and resist firing when dropped 36 inches on the hammer (paraphrased as we all know how the gov't words things.) https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/atf-form-4590-factoring-criteria-weapons/download
 
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All of the information directly above, although accurate and appreciated, has everything to do with the LCP firearm and nothing to do with the LCPll.
 
The LCP II has a trigger blade safety and an inertia-type firing pin. The hammer does move back a bit when firing, and the pistol comes with a good quality pocket holster. I cannot image this gun discharging from a drop unless it is out of the holster and impacts a hard surface muzzle down with enough momentum to overcome the inertia-type firing pin. I'm not even sure such a small and light gun can build up enough momentum to discharge.

I carry mine in an empty pocket, inside the holster, loaded and chambered, and feel safe. My concern would not be from a drop discharge, but rather from hitting the trigger when pulling from the holster, but that applies to many handguns. I feel carrying an unchambered defense gun can be more dangerous than a chambered SA one. That said I would much prefer a DA/SA trigger for carry.

TomVA
 
I have owned an LCP II for about 5 months now. The whole reason I am on this site is because during cleaning and inspection, I looked for the firing pin block and discovered that there was not one. I assumed all striker fired pistols included a firing pin block safety. Here is the exact quote from page 14 of the manual that came with the gun:

"For maximum safety when carrying the pistol with a loaded magazine in place, the chamber should be empty, and the slide should be closed."

Granted that statement is probably driven mostly from a legal standpoint. Nonetheless, if you carry a loaded round in the chamber and something happens, you may have a tough time in court given that the manufacturer has told you not to do it.

That said, I googled and found this write up on policeone.com that claims there is a "second sear engagement point" on the hammer:

"From a safety standpoint, the LCP II lacks any type of passive firing pin safety. The pistol’s hammer and sear engagement is very robust when fully cocked, negating the need for an internal firing pin block. Just to be safe, Ruger engineers did add a second sear engagement point on the hammer (similar to the half-cock position on a 1911) that will catch the hammer in case the sear receives a sufficient shock that might jar the hammer loose. In factory testing, Ruger found the primary sear engagement was so good that the sear actually had to be machined away in order to test the secondary engagement."

It's not clear to me exactly what this second sear engagement point is and whether it would provide an equivalent level of safety as a firing pin block. I'll try to study the hammer and sear more the next time I have the gun apart.
 
eak, welcome to The Firing Line. You made a good choice to post here.

I carry the LCP II and am looking forward to your further comments on this.

My pistol is fully loaded and ready to go. I guess I just trust my trigger control and Ruger's design engineers, in that order.

Bart Noir
 
I won't carry with a round in the chamber unless there is a manual safety or decocked hammer. Glock leg exists for a reason and a Glock isn't SAO. No way would I carry SAO without a very good safety like a 1911 has.
 
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