Rudy Guiliani ahead in Republican nomination race

Guess your conservatives are different thatn mine then...but then again...I dont let an election rise or fall on one issue.....

Better the devil I know and can talk to rather than the devil I dont and who wont listen.

It's highly unlikely you know any conservatives, or that any would associate with you. Just FYI, "Republican" does not translate to conservative these days.

Few people let an election pivot on one issue, though there's nothing wrong with that for those who do. As has been previously noted, though, these two are essentially the same on a multitude of issues. As such your point was...?

Neither of these "devils" is going to be listening to anything but their own agenda and those who agree with it. Get used to it.
 
We have been voting for the lesser of two evils for the last 20 years. The fact remains that you are still voting for evil. You are debating what bowl of sh*t smells the least.

The Republicans could nominate Hitler and the Dems nominated Stalin and from reading the posts here, most wouild vote for Hitler because he is "Less evil". Face it, continue doing the "lesser of the two" and that is exactly what we are going to end up with.
 
...and that is exactly what we are going to end up with

yep. In fact, we are getting freakishly close, having gotten to the situation where competition makes Rudy look like a right-winger of realistic choices. Here is something to keep in mind: your vote won't say in fine print that it went to the lesser of two evils. It's a nod, an approval, and a sign of encouragement to political history, views, and modus operandi of the elected official. Half-hearted and conditional effort won't make ink in the checkbox less real, and the message, the message of approval, less clear - whether you mean it or not.

Frankly, I'd rather express my dissatisfaction by voting for an unpopular party than contribute to the statistics showing to Rudy that everybody is happy with his intentions. I do realize that it may contribute to getting Hillary into the office, yet THIS seems lesser of two evils to me. In the long run, anyway.

It's time for the frog to realize: water is boiling.
 
yep. In fact, we are getting freakishly close, having gotten to the situation where competition makes Rudy look like a right-winger of realistic choices. Here is something to keep in mind: your vote won't say in fine print that it went to the lesser of two evils. It's a nod, an approval, and a sign of encouragement to political history, views, and modus operandi of the elected official. Half-hearted and conditional effort won't make ink in the checkbox less real, and the message, the message of approval, less clear - whether you mean it or not.

Frankly, I'd rather express my dissatisfaction by voting for an unpopular party than contribute to the statistics showing to Rudy that everybody is happy with his intentions. I do realize that it may contribute to getting Hillary into the office, yet THIS seems lesser of two evils to me. In the long run, anyway.

It's time for the frog to realize: water is boiling.

Well said,samoand. A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

badbob
 
Ths whole discussion is a waste of time.

Rudy won't get the Republican nomination, and Hillary won't get the Democratic nomination.

Primary voters tend to be activists. People committed to their respective Party. I can tell you from personal experience, both face-to-face and online, that Democratic activists don't much care for Mrs. Clinton. I've observed a similar antipathy for Mr. Guliani on the Republican side, although that experience is limited to gun boards and RedState.

These early polls mean not much, since there's no control for the likelihood of a respondent actually getting off his/her buttocks and voting in the primaries.

It's all name recognition and generic feeling at this point.

Actually, my title is misleading. The visceral anti-Guliani reaction here, in a place that trends pretty Republican, and where most of the participants are politically active, tells us a lot about Mr. Guliani's chances.

He won't win.

--Shannon
 
Well heck guys, just ignore the whole processs...why even bother to complain :)

It's highly unlikely you know any conservatives, or that any would associate with you.

My golly there is a lot of sand in the sandbox around here...:)

WildheyimrightAlaska
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033000190_pf.html

Giuliani Faces Questions About Sept. 11
By LARRY McSHANE
The Associated Press
Friday, March 30, 2007; 2:49 AM

NEW YORK -- Rudy Giuliani's White House aspirations are inescapably tied to Sept. 11, 2001 _ for better and for worse.

While the former mayor of the nation's largest city was widely lionized for his post-9/11 leadership _ "Churchillian" was one adjective, "America's mayor" was Oprah Winfrey's assessment _ city firefighters and their families are renewing their attacks on him for his performance before and after the terrorist attack.

"If Rudolph Giuliani was running on anything but 9/11, I would not speak out," said Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was among the 343 FDNY members killed in the terrorist attack. "If he ran on cleaning up Times Square, getting rid of squeegee men, lowering crime _ that's indisputable.

"But when he runs on 9/11, I want the American people to know he was part of the problem."

Such comments contradict Giuliani's post-Sept. 11 profile as a hero and symbol of the city's resilience _ the steadfast leader who calmed the nerves of a rattled nation. But as the presidential campaign intensifies, criticisms of his 2001 performance are resurfacing.

Giuliani, the leader in polls of Republican voters for his party's nomination, has been faulted on two major issues:

_ His administration's failure to provide the World Trade Center's first responders with adequate radios, a long-standing complaint from relatives of the firefighters killed when the twin towers collapsed. The Sept. 11 Commission noted the firefighters at the World Trade Center were using the same ineffective radios employed by the first responders to the 1993 terrorist attack on the trade center.

Regenhard, at a 2004 commission hearing in Manhattan, screamed at Giuliani, "My son was murdered because of your incompetence!" The hearing was a perfect example of the 9/11 duality: Commission members universally praised Giuliani at the same event.

_ A November 2001 decision to step up removal of the massive rubble pile at ground zero. The firefighters were angered when the then-mayor reduced their numbers among the group searching for remains of their lost "brothers," focusing instead on what they derided as a "scoop and dump" approach. Giuliani agreed to increase the number of firefighters at ground zero just days after ordering the cutback.

More than 5 1/2 years later, body parts are still turning up in the trade center site.

"We want America to know what this guy meant to New York City firefighters," said Peter Gorman, head of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association. "In our experiences with this man, he disrespected us in the most horrific way."

The two-term mayor, in his appearance before the Sept. 11 Commission, said the blame for the death and destruction of Sept. 11 belonged solely with the terrorists. "There was not a problem of coordination on Sept. 11," he testified.

Giuliani was also criticized for locating the city's emergency center in 7 World Trade Center, a building that contained thousands of gallons of diesel fuel when it collapsed after the terrorist attack.

The lingering ill will between Giuliani and firefighters was resurrected when the International Association of Fire Fighters initially decided not to invite the former mayor to its March 14 candidates forum in Washington. Other prominent presidential hopefuls, including Republican John McCain and Democrats Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards, addressed the nation's largest firefighters union.

According to the Giuliani camp, the contretemps with the union dates to tough contract negotiations in his second term as mayor. His critics deny any political motivation.

The IAFF drafted a membership letter _ it was never sent _ that excoriated Giuliani and promised to tell "the real story" about his role in handling the terrorist attack.

The then-mayor's decision to change policy on the ground zero recovery effort was "an offensive and personal attack" on firefighters, the letter said, going on to say that Giuliani's "disrespect ... has not been forgotten or forgiven."

Giuliani countered the attacks by releasing an open letter of support from retired firefighter Lee Ielpi, whose firefighter son was among the 2,749 victims on Sept. 11. "Firefighters have no greater friend and supporter than Rudy Giuliani," Ielpi said.

A contingent of nearly 100 South Carolina firefighters also expressed their support for Giuliani and his White House hopes.

Hank Sheinkopf, a veteran political consultant, predicted the 9/11 criticisms could resonate beyond New York during the presidential campaign.

"These are very emotional people who will touch a responsive chord with a lot of the electorate," he said. "The things that the 9/11 families say will wind up in television commercials used against Rudy Giuliani."

The issues also have forced Giuliani to try to strike a balance to avoid the perception that he's exploiting the attacks for his own personal gain. President Bush faced the same challenge in 2004 when he invoked the attacks to portray himself as a strong and steady leader in the face of terrorism. Some victims' relatives criticized Bush for using the ruins of the World Trade Center in his campaign commercials, while others defended him.

© 2007 The Associated Press

badbob
 
According to the Giuliani camp, the contretemps with the union dates to tough contract negotiations in his second term as mayor.

NYC politics at it's finest!

Keep in mind the NYC is a Democratic, union loving liberal city...Rudy is a Repub...no matter how silk stocking Repubs get, the Dems always hate em.

Some background for you to check out: Tammany Hall, Abe Beame, John Lindsey, Vito Marcantonio, Sidney Hillman, Lepke Buchalter, Teddy Roosevelt...get yerself a flavour of the craziness there

WildroughandtumbleAlaska
 
Rudy and guns

Well this what he says about gun control

I do not think the government should cut off the right to bear arms. My position for many years has been that just as a motorist must have a license, a gun owner should be required to have one as well. Anyone wanting to own a gun should have to pass a written exam that shows that they know how to use a gun, that they’re intelligent enough and responsible enough to handle a gun. Should both handgun and rifle owners be licensed...we’re talking about all dangerous weapons.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A4 Mar 21, 2000
 
Rudy and gun companies

On June 19, 2000, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani announced that the City of New York had become the first jurisdiction in the state of New York and the 32nd local government in the nation to sue the gun industry, with the Legal Action Project as co-counsel.

The Legal Action Project is a program of The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. The following are some of their claimed "victories":

-- The Project's work has been critical to the defense of the Brady Law and the federal assault weapons ban, as well as numerous state laws directed at assault weapons and "Saturday Night Special" handguns, against legal challenges funded by the National Rifle Association.

-- The Project's amicus briefs helped to convince the Supreme Court of Massachusetts that the state's attorney general had authority to issue regulations establishing safety standards for all handguns made or sold in the state. The regulations were the first of their kind in the country, and can serve as a model for other states to follow.

-- The Project filed and won a suit to stop California's former Attorney General from continuing illegal registration of assault weapons after a statutory deadline for such registrations had expired. The decision cleared the way for the state to order owners of about 1,600 assault weapons to surrender them to law enforcement.

Rudy Giuliani had no misgivings about aligning himself with Sarah Brady and the Brady Center in his efforts to sue the gun industry. He is no friend of gun owners, no matter what he, or Wildalaska, says.
 
sasquatch

I new about him and that lawsuit against the gun manufactures.
That was my point with my post in that he can't be trusted.He seems to be a guy who says one thing and does another. Not unlike the majority of politicians today.
 
RERICK

It is very puzzling to me why gun owners like Wildalaska are so willing to forgive Mr. Giuliani for teaming up with Sarah Brady and The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (the old HCI). I can see no justification for Rudy's actions, whatsoever.
 
Check the GOA list

The only person approved by the GOA is Ron Paul. PERIOD! If you want to lose your Homeland defense rifles [AR's], Ruger 10-22's, magfed anything, any hand gun that has over 10 rounds, rifles [that means anything that is not a straight stock rifle] vote for the rest of them. Brother, you wonder why I'm out of the city, and not like the rest? There is gonna be a lot of surprised gunners [ turned into criminals over night] if this stunt passes. This is so we will compromise and accept the old ban again.
 
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