Ron Paul, anyone?

No, not a "fact". It's a myth that everyone knows how to get a gun if they can't do so legally. Most people have no idea where to get a gun except for a gun store or gun show.

You're not willing to make a small compromise in order to ensure that fewer sales "slip through the cracks" and that's why we're losing. The folks that say there should be no gun control laws are as much to blame for ridiculous gun laws as the antis because they are the ones that make the antis think "jeez, I sure don't want these rednecks to have guns".
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Really, the same way they don't know where to get crack and heroin? Come on Redworm, nobody can be that naive. Compromise, we compromised with GCA1934, again in 1968, again in 1986, then again in 1993. I don't know where you live, but the only thing I've noticed it changing is the price of everything goes up each time we compromise. The AWB worked so well they let it sunset. Sorry to break the news to you, but they can't legislate a safe utopia where there are no murdering freaks, but they can legislate a target rich environment for murdering freaks.
 
Really, the same way they don't know where to get crack and heroin? Come on Redworm, nobody can be that naive. Compromise, we compromised with GCA1934, again in 1968, again in 1986, then again in 1993. I don't know where you live, but the only thing I've noticed it changing is the price of everything goes up each time we compromise. The AWB worked so well they let it sunset. Sorry to break the news to you, but they can't legislate a safe utopia where there are no murdering freaks, but they can legislate a target rich environment for murdering freaks.
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Not everybody knows where to get crack and heroin. No all people who are legally barred from owning a gun know where to get crack and heroin. And thus not all of them know where to get a gun (provided gun shops, gun shows, and private sales from law-abiding citizens were ruled out).

Hint: not all people barred from purchasing a gun are drug dealers with extensive criminal connections...or even convicted criminals.
 
Really, the same way they don't know where to get crack and heroin? Come on Redworm, nobody can be that naive. Compromise, we compromised with GCA1934, again in 1968, again in 1986, then again in 1993. I don't know where you live, but the only thing I've noticed it changing is the price of everything goes up each time we compromise. The AWB worked so well they let it sunset. Sorry to break the news to you, but they can't legislate a safe utopia where there are no murdering freaks, but they can legislate a target rich environment for murdering freaks.
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Yes, most people don't know where and how to get crack and heroin. Most people would end up getting killed or arrested long before they aquired these things. It's not like gangs and drug dealers advertise in the local paper.

No, those were not compromises. Those were the results of hard polarization because instead of rationalizing with the antis the yokels scream and holler "I NEED MAH GRENADE LAUNCHER" and thus the antis fight even harder.

I'm not expecting anyone to legislate a safe utopia, I'm pointing out that fighting on the extreme is counter-productive.
 
Not everybody knows where to get crack and heroin. No all people who are legally barred from owning a gun know where to get crack and heroin. And thus not all of them know where to get a gun (provided gun shops, gun shows, and private sales from law-abiding citizens were ruled out).

Hint: not all people barred from purchasing a gun are drug dealers with extensive criminal connections...or even convicted criminals.
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Sorry Juan, I have a one thread limit. Maybe when we finish fixing the immigration laws we can work on the gun laws:)
 
Yes, most people don't know where and how to get crack and heroin. Most people would end up getting killed or arrested long before they aquired these things. It's not like gangs and drug dealers advertise in the local paper.

No, those were not compromises. Those were the results of hard polarization because instead of rationalizing with the antis the yokels scream and holler "I NEED MAH GRENADE LAUNCHER" and thus the antis fight even harder.

I'm not expecting anyone to legislate a safe utopia, I'm pointing out that fighting on the extreme is counter-productive.
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Red,
Let's not go back to the naive stance again. If you truly are I apologize. The majority of upright humans know which section of their town is known for trouble such as drugs. Anyone who has ever read a newspaper or seen the news on their local channel knows that when a drug bust in a residence is made there are typically guns found at the same time. Anyone with reasonable and I consider you above reasonable intelligence can put 2 + 2 together and know where to find drugs and or guns.
I've never yelled anything about a grenade launcher, but I am old enough to remember $800 machine guns that are now $18,000 machine guns. Sad part is; machine guns weren't even a problem, but it was a compromise to keep the antis from taking something that more people were interested in like "assault" rifles. They got those neutered in 93. As a matter of fact I don't believe I ever heard anyone outside of the errornet and anti-gun articles bring up anything about the right to own "mah grenade launcher"
But then again, I've never heard or seen widespread "grenade launcher violence" except maybe in the middle east where by the way civilian ownership of guns is banned for the most part, just not enforced:rolleyes:
 
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The truth is this: if someone wants something badly enough..they will get it. Legality does not matter to that person. They will find it. They will find a way to get it. The laws do not apply to that person..
 
The truth is this: if someone wants something badly enough..they will get it. Legality does not matter to that person. They will find it. They will find a way to get it. The laws do not apply to that person.
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Or they'll end up dead or arrested in the pursuit of it. There's no guarantee of success.

To take what DonR101395 was saying, I'm sure everybody knows where the bad part of town is, and may know of some house that drug dealers are operating out of. But if the average person shows up at such a house, not knowing anybody, and starts asking where to get ahold of an illegal gun they're more likely to end up leaving beaten and robbed than armed.
 
Red,
Let's not go back to the naive stance again. If you truly are I apologize. The majority of upright humans know which section of there town is know for trouble such as drugs. Anyone who has ever read a newspaper or seen the news on their local channel knows that when a drug bust in a residence is made there are typically guns found at the same time. Anyone with reasonable and I consider you above reasonable intelligence can put 2 + 2 together and know where to find drugs and or guns.
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Oh bull. First of all many towns don't even have such areas. Secondly, most upright humans still have no idea exactly where to go. What's someone gonna do, walk into southside Chicago and stroll around until they ask someone that looks "thuggish" for some crack and a mac 10? :rolleyes: No, most people do not know where to go and most people do not know how to get such things without getting killed or arrested in the process.

I've never yelled anything about a grenade launcher, but I am old enough to remember $800 machine guns that are now $18,000 machine guns.
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Say hello to the free market. It's an 18k gun because they know that's what you'll pay. The taxes are still pretty small compared to the price of the gun.
Sad part is; machine guns weren't even a problem, but it was a compromise to keep the antis from taking something that more people were interested in like "assault" rifles. They got those neutered in 93. As a matter of fact I don't believe I ever heard anyone outside of the errornet and anti-gun articles bring up anything about the right to own "mah grenade launcher"
But then again, I've never heard or seen widespread "grenade launcher violence" except maybe in the middle east where by the way civilian ownership of guns is banned for the most part, just not enforced
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The point is that they see people screaming and hollering that everyone should get to have a gun without any sort of background check or training and that's what makes the antis fight harder.
 
Say hello to the free market. It's an 18k gun because they know that's what you'll pay.
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It's only $18,000 because there's a fixed, limited, shrinking supply because of a government edict banning manufacture of new supply. If you call that a "free" market, well, I just don't know.
 
What happens when you run out of stuff to compromise on? Our rights are slowly being "compromised" away.

badbob
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No they're not. There's no compromise involved in the AWB. That wasn't gun owners and antigunners agreeing "ok, this is reasonable" that was antigunners saying "ok these hicks are too damn irresponsible to have these kinds of weapons".
It's only $18,000 because there's a fixed, limited, shrinking supply because of a government edict banning manufacture of new supply. If you call that a "free" market, well, I just don't know.
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So they don't make machine guns anymore? :confused: There's a ban on private ownership but the M249 is still manufactured.
 
So they don't make machine guns anymore? There's a ban on private ownership but the M249 is still manufactured.
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True, but if we're talking about the prices charged to private owners then talking about machine guns that can't be owned privately isn't relevant. The artificial cap on supply is certainly having an effect on the prices of such guns.

Though note that a gun costing $800 in, say, 1960 would cost something like $6000 nowadays due solely to inflation. Which makes the increase in price, while still dramatic, at least a little less dramatic.
 
Oh bull. First of all many towns don't even have such areas. Secondly, most upright humans still have no idea exactly where to go. What's someone gonna do, walk into southside Chicago and stroll around until they ask someone that looks "thuggish" for some crack and a mac 10? No, most people do not know where to go and most people do not know how to get such things without getting killed or arrested in the process.
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I grew up in a small MI town of 700 people and we had "that" section of town (actually it was just out of town), so I find it hard to believe that there are those utopia towns out there.
That is exactly how it's done. They stroll around looking for drugs, make a "friendship" and the next thing you know they can buy a gun. Hell, I've been offered drugs many times on the southside and in Gary. I wasn't even looking, I was just buying gas. If they are selling drugs door to door a gun isn't a stretch.

Say hello to the free market. It's an 18k gun because they know that's what you'll pay. The taxes are still pretty small compared to the price of the gun.
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No, it's called an artificially inflated marketplace. They didn't stop making them, they just stopped transferring them unless they were registered prior to 86. The taxes on them are actually pretty high if you consider a flat $200 tax on all NFA items except AOWs. That $350 Mossberg SBS costs you $550 plus sales tax on the $350 so you're looking at close to $600 for a $350 shotgun. I'm using a shotgun as an example because it's closer to the money most can afford. Buy a $200 AR15 lower, register is as an SBR you're paying 100% tax before you even build it.

I think Badbob had the correct question for you. Where do you stop the compromise?
 
In any event - I look forward to Ron Paul doing his thing tonite. I hope that he does as well in the polls again. If he does, they will be ignored. If he doesnt, they will be shown high and wide as a victory for one of the lame three.

Regardless, good luck to you Dr. Paul!
 
So Redworm wants to legislate whether I can privately sell my firearms to someone else, THEN he wants to see this state implement some arbitrary "education" standard to allow me to have the CCW I've had for two decades, without any such foolish meddling.

Such actions would simply make me, and many, many others, a felon...probably, eventually, rather violent ones. :rolleyes:

These aren't compromises. They are just more surrenders.
 
I'm sure you'd be able to pass the test if you've had that CCW for a while but I certainly would like to know that when you sell your good buddy a gun he doesn't have a record for beating his wife that you don't know about. Either way it's for the other thread. :p We can take that there. :)
 
most people don't know where and how to get crack and heroin. Most people would end up getting killed or arrested long before they aquired these things.
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***You got that right. The parts of my city where one might easily buy either hard drugs or guns with no questions asked are areas I wouldn't even want to drive through, much less stroll around in as Don recommends! I'm sure if one is a part of the neighborhood, things might be different. But obvious outsiders are pretty vulnerable, and I personally wouldn't want to chance it. Call me chicken, but at this point in my long life, I prefer to buy my guns and drugs legally, even if it means there are a few things I'd like which I can't have.:rolleyes:
 
The majority of upright humans know which section of their town is known for trouble such as drugs. Anyone who has ever read a newspaper or seen the news on their local channel knows that when a drug bust in a residence is made there are typically guns found at the same time. Anyone with reasonable and I consider you above reasonable intelligence can put 2 + 2 together and know where to find drugs and or guns.
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Knowing what part of town will have the drugs and guns in them is a far cry from knowing just how to procure them there. I travel all over the largest county in the country daily, (it is larger than a few states), and I know where the rough areas are. But I would "stick out like a sore thumb" in these areas as someone who is clueless!
 
I thought this thread was about Ron Paul...

And, frankly, he is the best man for the job. He's never voted for gun control legislation. And I love his stance about no government intervention on the Internet.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and his stance against the Patriot Act
 
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