RIP Benchmade Knives

Benchmade is not a gun company, nor do they sell guns. Plenty of their customers aren’t gun people, and plenty more of the customers are fudds. There’s some folks here in TFL that aren’t really bothered by this. I think they will recover.
It’s a bit different when a business dealing with guns does something that is perceived to be anti-2A

I just find that the social media presence that they have and some of their marketing conflicts with being anti-2nd amendment. They market to the tactical crowd, which would imply pro-2A.
I think that the Police department posted this without thinking it through. I’m betting that Benchmade never intend to let it out.
 
rickyrick said:
I think that the Police department posted this without thinking it through. I’m betting that Benchmade never intend to let it out.
I agree. But I am glad that it did come out. With the 2A under attack from every direction, we have to know who our real friends are -- and who they aren't.
 
S&W is going strong today because the new owners rescinded the Clinton agreement, and S&W went back to being a gun company. But it took them several years to rebound from the effects of the boycott.

But they still make the internal lock
 
You have a short memory. S&W was hurt significantly by the boycott.
Nothing wrong with my memory. I haven't purchased a current model/new S&W since 1975. All of my collection are P&R except a M17 prelock, but even it's recessed. I simply didn't pay attention to the lock models. I wouldn't have anyway as they weren't P&R.

But concerning your conclusion. IMO, the "boycott" didn't hurt them as much as their inferior products. On the old Smith and Wesson forum ........
http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php
... when it was still owned by the current owner of the Sigforum (owner's name "Parabellum"), there was a sticky of actual owners of S&W where the locks failed and locked up the guns during operation. Many of them provided pictures, etc.

The new owner (goes by the screen name "handejector") conveniently lost that sticky and we lost a tremendous source of verified data concerning the utter unreliability of the locks on the S&W guns.

That sticky was a microcosm of gun owners and that era of guns were horrible. Barrels failing, shrouds dislodging, gaps in the metal, etc. They were producing crap. And people knew about it and weren't buying them.

S&W's producing that junk hurt them worse than any perceived boycott.
And your link?
http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/swbetray.html
..offers no evidence that S&W sales suffered because of the boycott. S&W sales slumped, true. But no one can demonstrate why. Your linked article was dated in 2000 and simply underscores a call to arms, so to speak. Nothing about verifiable results.

The link is from 2000. In 2001 we got a pro gun president and the climate was better. By then S&W guns were clearly junk. A boycott was also announced. But nobody can say which of these had the greatest, if any, impact.

One of my degrees is in business with an accounting major. In an advanced accounting class I did a paper on S&W's financials. Of particular interest is their 10K report of 2011. Page 20, item 1A filed on 6/30/2011 noted that S&W had enjoyed unprecedented sales and they issued this statement: “Political and other factors also can affect our performance. For example, we experienced strong consumer demand for our handguns and modern sporting rifle products beginning in our third fiscal quarter ended January 31, 2009, following a new administration taking office in Washington, D.C., speculation surrounding increased gun control…….”

No boycott there, obviously, and their financial situation was no different than a lot of gun manufacturers in that era. Several companies had fallen on hard times and boycotts had nothing to do with it. But again, with the change in the political climate, most/many companies were doing banner business. Boycotts, or the lack thereof, had nothing to do with it.

I also analyzed S&W's balance sheets from 2006 through 2010, inclusive. A good barometer of their liquidity is their cash and cash equivalents. In 2006 C&CE totaled $731,000. That’s not good for a corporation the size of S&W. Heading into the election in 2007, the panic was already starting and their C&CE jumped to $4,065,000. 2008 it’s still increasing to $4,359,000. In 2009, C&CE skyrocketed to $39,822,000. The figure remained roughly the same for 2010. Obviously, they weren’t being hurt by any perceived “boycott.”

But, we're off topic of the thread. I'm simply agreeing with the poster of my earlier post, viz. ".. I’ve seen so many of these “boycotts” by gun owners go nowhere.." Benchmade will be no different. JMO.

S&W is going strong today because the new owners rescinded the Clinton agreement,

Huh? No they didn't. The lock is still there.
 
Foghorn, the Clinton agreement was renounced by S&W way prior to 2006. This is the original agreement: https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives.gov/WH/New/html/20000317_2.html

Very clearly, the new owners of S&W did not implement that. You point to the existence of the internal lock as evidence they didn’t renounce the agreement; but as a finance person, surely you appreciate why a manufacturer who has already sunk money into developing an unnecessary internal lock would keep producing it after retooling their line.

Next, you point to sales figures way after S&W renounced the agreement as evidence that a boycott is not working; but nobody was boycotting S&W at that time since it had gone to new ownership who refused to abide by the agreement.

Boycotts do work. But whether they work or not, I’m not going to knowingly/willingly fund someone who will use that money to try and take my rights.
 
Boycotts do work. But whether they work or not, I’m not going to knowingly/willingly fund someone who will use that money to try and take my rights.


Agree with all else you wrote, but especially your closing thoughts. Standing on principle is not about whether you are guaranteed to win. It is a stand driven by conscience.
 
^ I don't really care if Benchmade stays in business or goes under, the bottom line is I'm not handing them a penny for anything they make because their objectives and beliefs when it comes to the 2nd amendment aren't the same as mine.

They can say they're all for guns, but as a company what is it that they've DONE to advance 2A? Talk is cheap, actions and donations are not and from all I've seen, Benchmade is as anti-gun as the politicians they support.
 
No problem destroying guns that were got off the street AND that are unsafe or have had serial numbers ground off etc

But guns that were turned over because someone did not know what do do with them or family did not want them.
These guns should have been checked over by a gun Smith and resold at a reputable gun shop.
All funds received should have went to police and fire dept. for up keep of equipment etc.
I will not be buying a BM knife or shop at Dicks..target or any other place that will effect my right to bare arms of any type I choose
 
Boycotts do work.

Yes, but the protest against S&W was not a boycott. It was braggadocio of the equivalent of a few internet commandos and had little effect.

Again, even a cursory examination of their financials clearly demonstrates that the "boycott" failed miserably. In three years, just in C&CE, they increased $39 million.

Other gun manufacturers also increased in gross sales as well.

Prior to that political climate, sales were down. As were other gun manufacturers.

This was an industry phenomenon and had nothing to do with any boycott. As usual, correlation does not imply causation.

Yes, S&W suffered a decline in sales of revolvers, but because of the lock, substandard manufacturing practices and poor customer service. That had little or nothing to do with protest. Purists/collectors such as myself simply opted to buy used. To this day I will only buy pinned and recessed Smith revolvers.

Second, any renunciation of the klinton pact was a mere public relations stunt. The lock remains and, purists continue to eschew the revolvers. If they had truly renounced the conspiracy, they would have spent the money to retool and get rid of the lock (which is not only hideously ugly, but it's also a hazard to operation).

They would have seen an upsurge in sales as a result.

They only gave us lip service, counting on the gullibility of a naive few to buy what they're selling.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
Yes, but the protest against S&W was not a boycott. It was braggadocio of the equivalent of a few internet commandos and had little effect.

Again, even a cursory examination of their financials clearly demonstrates that the "boycott" failed miserably. In three years, just in C&CE, they increased $39 million.

I'm sure you read post #119, because you responded to it. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
I guess the British holding company unloaded S&W at a huge loss because S&W was making so much money off the Clinton deal. I was around back then and S&W was hurting. And the Clinton deal was far more than putting an optional lock mechanism in the revolvers. Safety Lock got a slow start when they bought S&W because they retained the lock, but they gained momentum by flatly cancelling all arrangements with state of MA and Clinton admin.
 
FoghornLeghorn said:
Again, even a cursory examination of their financials clearly demonstrates that the "boycott" failed miserably. In three years, just in C&CE, they increased $39 million.

S&W renounced the Clinton agreement in 2000 after Bush won. Your C&CE analysis started in 2006 and continued to 2009. How are you claiming any kind of relation?

Second, any renunciation of the klinton pact was a mere public relations stunt. The lock remains and, purists continue to eschew the revolvers. If they had truly renounced the conspiracy, they would have spent the money to retool and get rid of the lock (which is not only hideously ugly, but it's also a hazard to operation).

Yes, you said that the first time. Ignoring my reply and saying it again does nothing to convince me and it is still factually wrong. The Clinton Agreement consisted of many details besides the internal lock, which were never implemented. Renouncing those wasn’t a publicity stunt as they were much worse than an internal lock. Click on that link and give it a read. The internal lock was already implemented and I suspect it remains because retooling an entire line of revolvers to remove a safety feature doesn’t make good business sense, even if it increases revolver sales 10% or so.
 
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Except not every revolver has the lock. When I bought my 642-1 a few years ago, I had the choice of lock or no lock (I went with no lock), so in that sense, it would make MORE sense to stop the lock than have two production runs of the same gun - one with and one without.
 
S&W was damaged by their decision, as was Ruger. It took years for both company's sales to go back up.
Ask Dick's how their sales are going.
We do make a difference.

We made a difference because we ate our own.

As for Dick's, yeah, we hurt their sales, but we didn't make a difference. Dick's did NOT change their stance one iota. They knew they would lose sales and adjusted accordingly. I know plenty of folks celebrated because Dick's didn't make as much money, but it isn't like Dick's went into the red. They speedily adapted and are doing well.

Let's see how they are doing....
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DKS/dicks-sporting-goods/revenue

Actually, not too bad. Their growth is down as they have made some cuts, but their revenue is solid.

Looking at profit, it is down, but they still made a 2.52 billion in profit in 2018.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DKS/dicks-sporting-goods/gross-profit

How is their stock price for the last year when we put the squeeze on them? Steadily increasing...
https://www.google.com/search?clien...0.XKX7ioz4Sw4#scso=_GmyBXPqcJ4T-tAWNkZT4Ag2:0

Sportsman's Warehouse isn't doing as good and we didn't boycott them...

In looking at Dick's dividend history, it continues to increase since 2013.
https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/dks/dividend-history


I wonder how the NRA is doing? We aren't even boycotting them and they are taking a beating!
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...-nras-undoing-says-this-researcher-2018-12-15
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/09/nra-in-the-red-for-2nd-straight-year/

Dick's is doing much better than the NRA for the last 2 years.

So when we talk about how we really put the screws to Dick's, they seem to be taking it really well. In fact, they seem to be quite strong AND have done so while maintaining their anti-gun position.
 
Most pro-gun people are non-proactive (I think I made up a word) I honestly don’t think many pro-gun people actually vote. Being anti-gun seems to be benificial these days, at least from my world view. Eventually the pro-gun part of life will collapse under the weight of progressive ideas. Progressive ideology doesn’t recognize the unfettered right to gun ownership so as time progresses more companies will support antigun politicians. Knives are safe for now, and a knife maker could benefit from antigun policies... at least for the foreseeable future. Knives are on the political radar and greasing a few palms with money can help keep knives from the spotlight.
 
Reference Double Naught Spy's comments on Dick's, it should be noted that Dick's is not a "gun" store. Never was, and certainly isn't now. Firearms, at least at the two Dick's stores that I've been into in my area of operations, are (or were -- I haven't been into one for a couple or three years) very much a small part of their operation. The gun department is stuck off in a back corner on the second floor, and I almost never saw anyone actually staffing the counter. They seemed to be much more about selling cheap, molded kayaks, exercise and workout clothing and gear, running shoes, and some sports equipment.

My take is that they decided to take the hit on gun sales income because they knew there wasn't much income there to lose anyway, and they hoped to attract more SJW type customers by "taking a principled stand" (:barf: ).
 
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Most pro-gun people are non-proactive (I think I made up a word) I honestly don’t think many pro-gun people actually vote. Being anti-gun seems to be benificial these days, at least from my world view. Eventually the pro-gun part of life will collapse under the weight of progressive ideas. Progressive ideology doesn’t recognize the unfettered right to gun ownership so as time progresses more companies will support antigun politicians. Knives are safe for now, and a knife maker could benefit from antigun policies... at least for the foreseeable future. Knives are on the political radar and greasing a few palms with money can help keep knives from the spotlight.
I honestly don’t think many pro-gun people actually vote. Being anti-gun seems to be benificial these days, at least from my world view. Eventually the pro-gun part of life will collapse under the weight of progressive ideas. Progressive ideology doesn’t recognize the unfettered right to gun ownership so as time progresses more companies will support antigun politicians.

Altho there are fairly large 'camps' at both ends of the 'gun' spectrum, It is NOT binary, "either-or"..Conservative or progressive, nothing in between. So much in the middle. Many so called 'progressives' own guns, support the 2A, EDC, like me. Many 'conservatives' also own guns, support the 2A and EDC BUT think that some sort of 'gun control(not a 4 letter word) 'may' be a good idea.
So, IMHO..it's not as simple as 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun'.
Progressive ideology doesn’t recognize the unfettered right to gun ownership

Not that simple, IMHO. Conservative ideology doesn't either.
 
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