Andy Taylor
New member
"There is no clear cut answer. It really all depends on the user and their comfort with a particular firearm. "
This
This
Revolver vs Auto for Civilian defensive use
- Thread starter WildBill45
- Start date
I think that as a non military or police, the debate comes down to personal preference. The most important tool in a defensive situation isn't a revolver/auto, it is your brain. If you find yourself in a situation where you need more than a few shots your most important tool already failed. I guess what I'm trying to say is use your head.
I was tempted to vote for this. As the saying goes a handgun is only useful to fight your way back to your rifle.
Semi-autos are over 100 years old. In that time I think one or two reliable models have been produced.
Revolvers are still around after almost 200 years because they work.
Which one a person chooses is almost completely subjective.
I don't even agree with most of the premise laid out in the first post.
Revolvers—Plus side: Reliable, strong and can handle high power rounds. Revolvers are strong, in the sense that they can contain high pressures, but the internals are often small and "fiddly" compared to auto pistols. Once you get to a certain level of "power", you don't get much benefit from increasing it, so the ability to chamber "magnum" or other high-powered rounds is not an advantage for defensive use.
Revolvers using moon clips are just as fast or faster than autos in reloading. Moon clips and cylinders are much more reliable than autoloader magazines. Quality magazines are key to any autoloader being reliable.
Moonclips can become almost imperceptibly bent, and it will affect ignition reliability. It's possible to test clips before using them, but the same is true of auto pistol mags.
Autos: failure to fire is at a higher rate, less powerful rounds available, and are weaker mechanically than revolvers are.
Again, revolvers can handle higher pressures, but their mechanisms are generally not as robust as auto pistols, and when revolvers do break, they generally require tools and skill to repair, while auto pistols can often be stripped without tools and repaired by simple parts replacement.Though revolvers have a reputation for being "ammo insensitive" because they don't have to feed rounds to function, I have had many (MANY) more failures to fire with revolvers than auto pistols. I shoot handloaded ammo, and while I've had a handful of rounds, out of tens of thousands, that didn't go off in my auto pistols, I've often suffered through 10% failures in revolvers. The biggest advantage of the auto pistol is ergonomics and ease of use. I'd rather carry a 5-shot auto than a 6-shot revolver, as shooting the auto is easier.
Revolvers—Plus side: Reliable, strong and can handle high power rounds. Revolvers are strong, in the sense that they can contain high pressures, but the internals are often small and "fiddly" compared to auto pistols. Once you get to a certain level of "power", you don't get much benefit from increasing it, so the ability to chamber "magnum" or other high-powered rounds is not an advantage for defensive use.
Revolvers using moon clips are just as fast or faster than autos in reloading. Moon clips and cylinders are much more reliable than autoloader magazines. Quality magazines are key to any autoloader being reliable.
Moonclips can become almost imperceptibly bent, and it will affect ignition reliability. It's possible to test clips before using them, but the same is true of auto pistol mags.
Autos: failure to fire is at a higher rate, less powerful rounds available, and are weaker mechanically than revolvers are.
Again, revolvers can handle higher pressures, but their mechanisms are generally not as robust as auto pistols, and when revolvers do break, they generally require tools and skill to repair, while auto pistols can often be stripped without tools and repaired by simple parts replacement.Though revolvers have a reputation for being "ammo insensitive" because they don't have to feed rounds to function, I have had many (MANY) more failures to fire with revolvers than auto pistols. I shoot handloaded ammo, and while I've had a handful of rounds, out of tens of thousands, that didn't go off in my auto pistols, I've often suffered through 10% failures in revolvers. The biggest advantage of the auto pistol is ergonomics and ease of use. I'd rather carry a 5-shot auto than a 6-shot revolver, as shooting the auto is easier.
Are we talking all around? All around as in defense against bears, people, runaway cars barrelling toward you that you feel the need to take out the engine block (as if that would instantly stop the car), wild panthers, etc? Revolver.
Or are we just talking about people? Either one.
Or are we talking about 5 on 1, back alley, you get jumped by a gang of people? Auto + extra mags.
Seriously, both have their merits. Although great discussions on the tactical applications of each are fun and gives us a chance to highlight merits (or draw attention to drawbacks) of each, it really depends on the comfort of the operator more than anything.
Or are we just talking about people? Either one.
Or are we talking about 5 on 1, back alley, you get jumped by a gang of people? Auto + extra mags.
Seriously, both have their merits. Although great discussions on the tactical applications of each are fun and gives us a chance to highlight merits (or draw attention to drawbacks) of each, it really depends on the comfort of the operator more than anything.
really? Only 1 or 2? Gimme a break.I must disagree with the highlighted assertions only.
You state that you are considering only defensive use of a handgun, both revolver and semi-auto. In my mind that restricts consideration to defensive power level cartridges. To me that means cartridges that are less powerful than .44 magnum loads. For the sake of discussion let us put the upper limit at a 250 gr bullet at 1000fps (or lighter bullets at higher velocity in the same range) or around 550 ft. lbs. to 650 ft. lbs. of energy.
If this range is accepted, then there is no difference in power of cartridges available for defensive purposes when considering revolvers and semi-auto pistols.
From my reading of the posts here on thefiringline.com for the last several years, it seems to me that most of the people who post here and carry a concealed weapon actually choose a cartridge in the 9mm parabellum power range or less. I seem to be in the minority in choosing to carry the 10mm auto cartridge full power load (200gr @1200fps).
Otherwise, I believe that both revolvers and semi-autos can be good tools for self-defense. I have found that it takes a bit more training and practice to become competent in the manual of arms for a semi-auto compared to a revolver of similar power. I subscribe to the philosophy that it is the user of the tool (the man/woman behind the gun) that gets the job done.
WildBill45
New member
never assume anything
While your premise is sound, there are folks who can only afford one gun, and such a powerful gun like the S&W 329, can shoot hot .44 mag loads, which are handy on the hiking trails and in the hunting fields. If need be, the mag loads will suffice for self defense, but on most days your load levels are more attuned to the experienced and knowledgeable ones in the shooting culture!
The 329 can download to those Keith style .44 loads as well! The .454 Casull also fits in this category, whilst the 454 can take down a bull, one can insert a .45 Colt for business matters in the Bronx!
Autoloaders require much more training and actual practice to attain the same level of proficiency that most revolver shooters can attain much sooner. A 1911 to me is an extension of my hand, as is a nice Smith, and very much so a Colt S.A.A. But, I am one who was lucky to get such training so long ago, AND, kept up my skill sets with all three types of guns. Most folks do not, nor will they maintain such a level, and should pick one style and stick with it. There are so many more accidental discharges with autoloaders around ranges, houses, and elsewhere in my experience, and I investigated more of these incidents than most folks even hear about.
Small pistols, and autoloaders of any type are for the skilled only. Revolvers are easier to learn on, but, the level at the top does not take second place to anything for their intended purpose... Bigger guns, revolvers or autos are also easier to learn on because they are easier to control, and to shoot more accurately.
Also note: The gun is not the full equation for self defense! Trust me on this. A good fighter, martial artist, street fighter, crook, or ex-con, can walk up on almost everyone who is carrying, sucker punch them, walk past them and then stab them in the back, as I have seen many times before. Then they take your gun and kill you with it, and they were not armed with a gun!
The first step to being a good gun fighter is to be a skilled fighter ... PERIOD.
Some people get cocky carrying a gun, and are unaware that many people out there do not need a gun to get yours! You can't draw down on everyone walking by, can you? They know that, now you know that. What can you do about it if they are within arms reach? You will never get your hand on the gun ... you MUST learn to defend the gun, to defend yourself, or you are kidding yourself. The revolver versus autoloader is a moot point, if you cannot fight well first!
Which comes first, a good sword fighter or the sword?
While your premise is sound, there are folks who can only afford one gun, and such a powerful gun like the S&W 329, can shoot hot .44 mag loads, which are handy on the hiking trails and in the hunting fields. If need be, the mag loads will suffice for self defense, but on most days your load levels are more attuned to the experienced and knowledgeable ones in the shooting culture!
The 329 can download to those Keith style .44 loads as well! The .454 Casull also fits in this category, whilst the 454 can take down a bull, one can insert a .45 Colt for business matters in the Bronx!
Autoloaders require much more training and actual practice to attain the same level of proficiency that most revolver shooters can attain much sooner. A 1911 to me is an extension of my hand, as is a nice Smith, and very much so a Colt S.A.A. But, I am one who was lucky to get such training so long ago, AND, kept up my skill sets with all three types of guns. Most folks do not, nor will they maintain such a level, and should pick one style and stick with it. There are so many more accidental discharges with autoloaders around ranges, houses, and elsewhere in my experience, and I investigated more of these incidents than most folks even hear about.
Small pistols, and autoloaders of any type are for the skilled only. Revolvers are easier to learn on, but, the level at the top does not take second place to anything for their intended purpose... Bigger guns, revolvers or autos are also easier to learn on because they are easier to control, and to shoot more accurately.
Also note: The gun is not the full equation for self defense! Trust me on this. A good fighter, martial artist, street fighter, crook, or ex-con, can walk up on almost everyone who is carrying, sucker punch them, walk past them and then stab them in the back, as I have seen many times before. Then they take your gun and kill you with it, and they were not armed with a gun!
The first step to being a good gun fighter is to be a skilled fighter ... PERIOD.
Some people get cocky carrying a gun, and are unaware that many people out there do not need a gun to get yours! You can't draw down on everyone walking by, can you? They know that, now you know that. What can you do about it if they are within arms reach? You will never get your hand on the gun ... you MUST learn to defend the gun, to defend yourself, or you are kidding yourself. The revolver versus autoloader is a moot point, if you cannot fight well first!
Which comes first, a good sword fighter or the sword?
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glockcompact
New member
First off I will say that I replied to this earlier and stated that I like both for a defensive pistol. However there is one argument that I have not seen made.
Follow up shots are faster with an autoloader then they are with a revolver for a givin amount of weight/power.
9mm vs .38. - Most people will be able to stay on target faster with a 9mm.
.357 vs 10mm - Most people will be able to stay on target faster with a 10mm.
The autoloader has a lower chamber, bore axis, for less muzzle flip. EDIT: also the slide action helps with recoil. Now I'm well aware of the master shooters and how extremely fast they are with a givin revolver. I've seen the You Tube vids. Revolvers tend to be heavier too. Which helps cancel out some of that muzzle flip. Again I think a revolver makes an outstanding defensive weapon I'm just making an argument that I had not seen on this post.
Edit in Red
Follow up shots are faster with an autoloader then they are with a revolver for a givin amount of weight/power.
9mm vs .38. - Most people will be able to stay on target faster with a 9mm.
.357 vs 10mm - Most people will be able to stay on target faster with a 10mm.
The autoloader has a lower chamber, bore axis, for less muzzle flip. EDIT: also the slide action helps with recoil. Now I'm well aware of the master shooters and how extremely fast they are with a givin revolver. I've seen the You Tube vids. Revolvers tend to be heavier too. Which helps cancel out some of that muzzle flip. Again I think a revolver makes an outstanding defensive weapon I'm just making an argument that I had not seen on this post.
Edit in Red
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glockcompact
New member
I agree revolvers are easier to learn on. I also agree that Magnum revolvers are very versatile. I love the .357 mag and the 44 mag. It's hard to beat the versatility of those weapons. Auto loaders can not do this. There are arguments for both. That's why most gun enthusiast have both.
I'll be looking for a 6" 44 mag soon when I get the monies.
I'll be looking for a 6" 44 mag soon when I get the monies.
Hi,
I agree with a lot of the responses that it is a individual decision. The person should make his or her firearm decision based on which firearm they shoot the best. Also the person has to have confidence and trust with their chosen self defense weapon. It does not matter whether its a revolver or a semi-auto. The main thing is the person has to practice offen. I practice once a month and put at least 150 or more rounds through my self defense gun. It does not make any difference what type of handgun a person has if he or she can't hit what they aim at. If they can't do this they probably won't win the gunfight.
I am a revolver man. I have a semi-autos but shoot revolvers better. My choice is a plain S&W model 10 4 inch heavy barrel. I can shoot at 10 yrds in the black of a bulleye target double action 6 out of 6 shots fast. Another person might shoot a Glock 17 with the same skill. Again which ever a person decides I think my statement defines the purpose of a defensive handgun for a civilian.
Howard
I agree with a lot of the responses that it is a individual decision. The person should make his or her firearm decision based on which firearm they shoot the best. Also the person has to have confidence and trust with their chosen self defense weapon. It does not matter whether its a revolver or a semi-auto. The main thing is the person has to practice offen. I practice once a month and put at least 150 or more rounds through my self defense gun. It does not make any difference what type of handgun a person has if he or she can't hit what they aim at. If they can't do this they probably won't win the gunfight.
I am a revolver man. I have a semi-autos but shoot revolvers better. My choice is a plain S&W model 10 4 inch heavy barrel. I can shoot at 10 yrds in the black of a bulleye target double action 6 out of 6 shots fast. Another person might shoot a Glock 17 with the same skill. Again which ever a person decides I think my statement defines the purpose of a defensive handgun for a civilian.
Howard
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hardworker
New member
Both semi auto's and revolvers have been putting bad guys six feet under for many years. The differences between them as far as us average people are concerned are negligible from a practical standpoint. Use what you're comfortable with, don't worry about what's "best", since "best" doesn't exist in this discussion.
glockcompact
New member
I'm fully aware of the You Tube vids. He's an awesome shooter. I know he's faster than I am with no matter what I pick up. But I still stand by what I said. I believe a semi will have less muzzle flip for a givin (weight of the gun) vs (power of the ammunition).
No, but "better" is likely to come into it.
I shoot a good bit of hot .38's and some 357mag out of a couple of 4" S&W's this time of year, and I shoot a lot of hot 9mm out of a Glock 17 all year, and I really dont see a whole lot of difference between them from the recoil/muzzle flip end of things. If anything, my hits are tighter with the S&W's, but I usually run out sooner with them too.
Now if you bring the J frames with "real" ammo into it, you may be onto something.
Again, its probably more what youre comfortable with and practice with than anything else.
glockcompact
New member
I completely agree with that.
While I agree that a revolver is likely easier for most people to learn, I tend to disagree with how hard you make it sound to learn different guns.
I usually hunt with SA revolvers, and carry a DA revolver and/or a semi-auto for self defense. I grew up shooting mostly DA revolvers, but didn't find it hard at all to learn to shoot a semi-auto, and a SA revolver was a piece of cake to learn. I can switch from one to another without a 2nd thought, and without issue. It's just not that hard.
As for the part of your post concerning mindset of a fighter, it's irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, it's important to be aware of our surroundings, but that has nothing to do with whether I'm carrying a semi or a revolver.
Daryl
Really, based on what? None of my semi autos have a 12 lb trigger pull nor do they require me to cock a hammer in order to have a reasonable trigger pull. The basics of shooting however outside of trigger pull are pretty universal.
Further although I have no experience with moon clips most revolvers only hold 5 or 6 rounds compared to 8, 10 and on up depending on the caliber.
As far as what is more reliable I have seen stats saying they are pretty equal nowdays which may not have always been the case but you would think if your assertion was true you would see more law enforcement offices carrying them as a primary weapon and lets face it, thats just not happening for the most part.
I have a 460 Rowland (semi auto) that puts me in the mid range of 44 magnum power and with 13 +1 shots seems like a pretty good hitter without having to move to a 50 cal or some other monster.
If I drop my gun my mags wont fill with mud like the chambers on a revolver might.
Im not saying that revolvers don't have their place and overall some of them are very, very nice but I think to claim the revolver is a better defensive weapon fails.
Both revolvers and semis are limited in power, both are reliable and overall the match is too close to call unless your looking at number of rounds and some operation environment concerns that really probably dont figure into most situations.
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Both work and both have their advantages and disadvantages in various areas, so what I try to do whenever possible is find the best fit for the shooter and their intended use. In my opinion, this issue is far too complex to boil down to a singular answer based on platitudes (even ones that are generally true).