But Dennis, by that standard you would have to carry a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun don't you think? I am talking real world, not preparing for the zombie apocolypse. If I were to try to prepare for every possible situation, I wouldn't be able to carry all of it. I'm looking for real life recorded examples of a revolver coming up short and finding more "what if" imagination than reality.
Revolver capacity
- Thread starter garyl43
- Start date
I know of no examples. But my wisdom has always been in a place where the need to reload is approaching nil.
I primarily carry two guns (not at the same time): a 9mm w/ 7+1; and a 7-shot 357. I don't carry extra ammo for either (I have an extra mag in the car console, but it never comes with me).
I live in a good neighborhood with a better n average police presence. If I got in a SD situation, it's likely they would arrive before my chambers were empty.
That said, I've never been comfortable carrying a 5-shot J-frame. For starters, I don't shoot them well. And the five rounds is somehow psychologically troubling. I would feel much better with a 6th, somehow (not that I carry a 6-shot gun - but I would if that's what I had).
I primarily carry two guns (not at the same time): a 9mm w/ 7+1; and a 7-shot 357. I don't carry extra ammo for either (I have an extra mag in the car console, but it never comes with me).
I live in a good neighborhood with a better n average police presence. If I got in a SD situation, it's likely they would arrive before my chambers were empty.
That said, I've never been comfortable carrying a 5-shot J-frame. For starters, I don't shoot them well. And the five rounds is somehow psychologically troubling. I would feel much better with a 6th, somehow (not that I carry a 6-shot gun - but I would if that's what I had).
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DannyB1954
New member
I have had a revolver jam twice on me.
Once because the primer was not fully seated on a cartridge and when the cylinder revolved the primer hit the frame and stopped the cylinder from turning further.
The other time was with a S&W 38 bodyguard. If the trigger is pulled slightly and then released, occasionally the cylinder will jam the next time the trigger is pulled. Rotating the cylinder by hand after the jam cures this, but it is still a failure.
Anything mechanical can malfunction.
Once because the primer was not fully seated on a cartridge and when the cylinder revolved the primer hit the frame and stopped the cylinder from turning further.
The other time was with a S&W 38 bodyguard. If the trigger is pulled slightly and then released, occasionally the cylinder will jam the next time the trigger is pulled. Rotating the cylinder by hand after the jam cures this, but it is still a failure.
Anything mechanical can malfunction.
If you drill to clear it, a bad round in an auto pistol is not a show stopper.
If your "bad round" in the revolver is a hang-fire, then THAT's a show stopper.
Not likely, true..... but neither is a "bad round" (dud) of premium centerfire self defense ammo.
I carry a semi-auto because:
1. I shoot the platform (1911) better than the DA revolver I had. Both weighed 26 ounces, empty, both had 3ish inch barrels. The 9 was smaller, overall.
2. The 9mm gave just slightly less energy and penetration on target than the .357 ... but not enough less that anybody shot with it would care ......
3. The 9 was more controllable, and follow up shots faster.
4. The 9 held 10 rounds, twice what the .357 did.... and reload of another 9rounds rode in a mag pouch or pocket better than a speedloader containing 5 rounds.
5. ..... and the clincher: That wheel gun would NOT carry comfortably in any sort of IWB holster I tried.
YMMV.
You seem to only be concerned about people that agree with your point of view which honestly makes your 'questions' and this thread pointless.
We are saying yes a revolver will do fine. But reloading and bringing it back to ready is required much sooner and more difficult then an automatic. whichever you choose its up to you to decide what you feel comfortable carrying. Some carry nothing, some one gun, some one gun and a reload. some have multiple guns.
If your revolver takes an extreme hit to the cylinder you could bend the crane rendering it a very short and fancy club. which isnt as quick as tap rack bang to bring back to the ready. Both systems have pros and cons. You've decided revolvers are better clearly. So why bother asking?
Also drawing on someone whos pulled a knife and not following up with a police report is just kinda stupid. He could've called it in claiming you two attacked him with a firearm and he had a knife in selfdefense. You need the law to know you were the defendant. Have them on your side. What if someone else saw you pull a gun on him and didnt see his knife and called you in from across the street.
You also seem rather proud of that event as you've reiterated it a number of times in this thread which also seems concerning.
We are saying yes a revolver will do fine. But reloading and bringing it back to ready is required much sooner and more difficult then an automatic. whichever you choose its up to you to decide what you feel comfortable carrying. Some carry nothing, some one gun, some one gun and a reload. some have multiple guns.
If your revolver takes an extreme hit to the cylinder you could bend the crane rendering it a very short and fancy club. which isnt as quick as tap rack bang to bring back to the ready. Both systems have pros and cons. You've decided revolvers are better clearly. So why bother asking?
Also drawing on someone whos pulled a knife and not following up with a police report is just kinda stupid. He could've called it in claiming you two attacked him with a firearm and he had a knife in selfdefense. You need the law to know you were the defendant. Have them on your side. What if someone else saw you pull a gun on him and didnt see his knife and called you in from across the street.
You also seem rather proud of that event as you've reiterated it a number of times in this thread which also seems concerning.
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There is no perfect handgun for self defense. It's best to have options from small guns to full size guns. Obviously, if the other shoe drops, everyone wants a powerful gun that never jams and never runs out of bullets, with sights that make it impossible for you miss.
But the reality of it is "what are you willing to carry, day in and day out, and what is your perceived risks?" Does your lifestyle, job, etc require deep concealment, you name it?
Anymore, there is a virtual sea of tiny, to large semi-autos on the market, many are quite good, but many also have flaws that if not identified and dealt with, could get you killed. One thing I have noticed is that there are several models out there that can very easily have their magazine disengaged while carrying and leave you with a gun that only fires once or none at all. And jams can and still do occur even with top quality brand names. And even if you do need a reload, if you don't carry that reload in a very fool proof and accessible location, it will probably never be employed anyway because there won't be time.
Few of these problems affect the revolver, and the round count will probably be enough, assuming the operator can shoot, and if you do run out of ammo, maybe it's time to draw another handgun for a NY reload. At any rate, extended shootouts are rare for the common individual, and shop keepers and law enforcement is a different matter, and the risks and probabilities are usually very different.
You just have to decide what you can carry, how to carry it for fast deployment, and know you individual choice well enough to have confidence that it will work for you if you ever need it. If I carry a revolver, I like another back up revolver, even if it's nothing more then a NAA Mini 22 mag accessible with the other hand. Same if I carry a small automatic, even if I do have a spare mag. I would rather have a spare gun then a spare reload, but like to have both for CCW.
The farther I travel out of my sphere of influence the bigger the gun I want on me, if I have a choice. If I am traveling and it's a lonely gas stop at night on I-10 or somewhere, then I want my 45ACP, Lightweight Commander in a good holster, and a reload, and nothing smaller gives me much comfort. But locally, I can be quite happy with a 5 shot Air Weight, and maybe a backup mini-revolver, or even another Air Weight if clothing allows for it, and to hell with the reload.
But the reality of it is "what are you willing to carry, day in and day out, and what is your perceived risks?" Does your lifestyle, job, etc require deep concealment, you name it?
Anymore, there is a virtual sea of tiny, to large semi-autos on the market, many are quite good, but many also have flaws that if not identified and dealt with, could get you killed. One thing I have noticed is that there are several models out there that can very easily have their magazine disengaged while carrying and leave you with a gun that only fires once or none at all. And jams can and still do occur even with top quality brand names. And even if you do need a reload, if you don't carry that reload in a very fool proof and accessible location, it will probably never be employed anyway because there won't be time.
Few of these problems affect the revolver, and the round count will probably be enough, assuming the operator can shoot, and if you do run out of ammo, maybe it's time to draw another handgun for a NY reload. At any rate, extended shootouts are rare for the common individual, and shop keepers and law enforcement is a different matter, and the risks and probabilities are usually very different.
You just have to decide what you can carry, how to carry it for fast deployment, and know you individual choice well enough to have confidence that it will work for you if you ever need it. If I carry a revolver, I like another back up revolver, even if it's nothing more then a NAA Mini 22 mag accessible with the other hand. Same if I carry a small automatic, even if I do have a spare mag. I would rather have a spare gun then a spare reload, but like to have both for CCW.
The farther I travel out of my sphere of influence the bigger the gun I want on me, if I have a choice. If I am traveling and it's a lonely gas stop at night on I-10 or somewhere, then I want my 45ACP, Lightweight Commander in a good holster, and a reload, and nothing smaller gives me much comfort. But locally, I can be quite happy with a 5 shot Air Weight, and maybe a backup mini-revolver, or even another Air Weight if clothing allows for it, and to hell with the reload.
DannyB1954,
Regarding a high primer in a revolver:
Bill Jordan, the top guru when it comes to using a
revolver, said that in loading a revolver, after all
six are seated and cylinder is closed to rotate cylinder.
This is done by keeping finger off trigger but pulling
slightly back on hammer to release locking bolt
in cylinder notch.
This check does two thing, first seeing if a primer is
slightly high or cartridge not seated fully,
and also if a burr or something under the
ejector is causing a binding or any kind of
binding.
It's a simple check in getting ready for duty,
concealed carry, etc.
I often do this at the range as a matter of routine/training.
NO, it's not done in a rapid reload under "combat" conditions.
I add this for the critics who look for the least opening in
a discussion.
Regarding a high primer in a revolver:
Bill Jordan, the top guru when it comes to using a
revolver, said that in loading a revolver, after all
six are seated and cylinder is closed to rotate cylinder.
This is done by keeping finger off trigger but pulling
slightly back on hammer to release locking bolt
in cylinder notch.
This check does two thing, first seeing if a primer is
slightly high or cartridge not seated fully,
and also if a burr or something under the
ejector is causing a binding or any kind of
binding.
It's a simple check in getting ready for duty,
concealed carry, etc.
I often do this at the range as a matter of routine/training.
NO, it's not done in a rapid reload under "combat" conditions.
I add this for the critics who look for the least opening in
a discussion.
Not at all Venom, it seems only a few really read my original post. I know full well the differences between a revolver and a semi auto and the pros and cons of both, but that was never my question. I was asking for real world documented cases of a revolver having to be reloaded or failing during a CIVILIAN self defense situation. So far just one crazy watch salesman that will eventually get killed no matter what he uses unless he moves.
Now I know all the various scenarios dreamed up online, it led to the whole zombie phenomenon. What I can't seem to find are real examples where a revolver failed or needed a reload, but I have seen many examples of semi autos jamming. This leads me to believe that a revolver carries more than enough rounds and will work when and where I need it to work, here in the real world.
And Venom, the whole character assassination assumptions aren't really needed are they? That situation was more comedy than anything else when it was done, and there are many cases every day as you well know where the police aren't called in a quick and over with situation such as that.
Now I know all the various scenarios dreamed up online, it led to the whole zombie phenomenon. What I can't seem to find are real examples where a revolver failed or needed a reload, but I have seen many examples of semi autos jamming. This leads me to believe that a revolver carries more than enough rounds and will work when and where I need it to work, here in the real world.
And Venom, the whole character assassination assumptions aren't really needed are they? That situation was more comedy than anything else when it was done, and there are many cases every day as you well know where the police aren't called in a quick and over with situation such as that.
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Cops are civilians. There is no difference other than a badge of office and a paycheck.
John Farnam mentioned several incidents where people were killed because they did not have a reload for either type of gun. In my mind, it's better to focus upon mastering defensive shooting skills, carry reloads, and be skilled in the other aspects of self-defense (awareness, understanding the law and legal process, proper concealment, managing unknown contacts, basic martial arts, etc) than it is to worry about firearm platforms.
Carry what you want. If you like revolvers are are good with them, then carry that. However, if you have not done your due diligence and mastered the trigger and reload, then consider a semi-auto if you can operate the slide.
I fully realize some people cannot operate a semi-auto slide consistently. Some of this is due to lack of skill, age, or physical limitations. Skill can be remedied, but phyisical limitations cannot.
Then again, the "demographic" that seems to kill the most criminals are 60+ year old ladies armed with revolvers chambered in 22 Long Rifle through 38 Special. Never mess with a little old lady! She'll pull out a Colt and blast away!
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Smith and Wesson makes an 8-shot .357 (Model 627). I believe that Taurus does as well....but let's stick with S&W. It's easy to reload because it is made to accept moon clips if you want to use them. Still, 8 shots of high performance .357 equals the capacity of a standard 1911 with more powerful cartridges and made in a frame that can be carried fairly easily. Plus, it doesn't leave your empties lying all over the place. This aint your Grandpa's .38 special.
deerslayer303
New member
Its funny how some people that tout capacity, carry around a small auto with the capacity of 5-7 rounds. And the Sub Compacts gaining popularity today are limited in their capacity also. The real advantage being faster reloads.
I was comparing two guns on their merits for a concealed carry gun, apples to apples..... then you go and suggest a grapefruit? I suppose you could have gone full watermellon and suggested one of the BFR's ....
How big and heavy is that 627 (or it's Brazilian cousin of questionable parentage)? Nowhere near 26 ounces.....and I'll need bigger pants, belt (it's 44 oz empty-maybe I'll need suspenders, as well!) and maybe some gaint Hawaiian shirts to help hide the thing ....
How wide is it? It will ride IWB even worse than the 5 shot sp101 I had ..... and the moon clips still won't carry as easily as a magazine .....
Surely you jest, Sir: even in a duty rig, a gun that big and heavy is going to be a PITA.
All those negatives and it still has lower capacity than the EMP I opted for- yet it costs MORE?
No thanks. You Carry a 627 if that's what you want ...... just don't try to justify it with anything other than 1) it's a more powerful round ....and 2) you like it. The first is un-necessary, and the second only applies to you personally.
I don't think the Smith Wesson Model 327PC qualifies as any greatfruit. Check it out on the smith and wesson forum: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/215803-s-w-327-pc-2-a.html A little snubbie .357 - pick one up and you won't believe how light they are weighing in at only 21.4 oz! And, 8 rounds of .357!!! That's 4.6 ounces lighter than what you are carrying. Don't be afraid to come over to the dark side.
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