Revolver and Lever action in .357 wise choice?
- Thread starter usr1987
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223 shooter
New member
I found it no great feat to load ammo that shoots reasonbly well out of both - a Hornady 158XTP with H110 or AA#9 shoots accurately out of my 357s revolvers and my Henry/Marlin rifles.
I would agree.
And if one doesn't hand load...I've yet to find a common commercial 357 load that didn't feed reliably in an LG, and most will feed most 38 on their own or with just a minor tweak.
Worst case scenario is you you have two loads, which I still don't see what all the fuss is about. It wouldn't be any different if your chosen sidearm is a 9mm and your rifle is a 556, yet I've never heard anyone complain about such. At least with a 38/357 combo your rifle rounds will always work in your pistol.
TruthTellers
New member
It's light compared to the Redhawk or an 1858 replica. The times I've handled a GP100, I'm always surprised by how well balanced they are.First time I have heard the GP100 referred to as "light"!
It's a tank, and the Redhawk is a bigger tank.
223 shooter said:
For me, they'd have to perform well on the intended target, too. Therein can lie the rub.
TBM900 said:
I would say this is the most likely case for most. Yet, unless I'm missing something, the whole point of the .357 revolver/rifle combo was to simplify with one load.
No, there's no big fuss about 2 loads, but if you're going to use two loads, why not use a rifle in a different chambering altogether? I like my Marlin 1894c just fine, but the truth is, whatever purpose I might have for it, I've got something else that'll do it better.
Wise choice, for what? The 357 is marginal for hunting larger game like deer and to much for small game. A 357 carbine just allows for more accurate shooting of the cartridge. If
used as range guns I guess you would only have to mess with one ammo. Like someone said if you are buying to hunt there are much better choices, a 30/30 has it all over a 357.
used as range guns I guess you would only have to mess with one ammo. Like someone said if you are buying to hunt there are much better choices, a 30/30 has it all over a 357.
A point being missed with "if two loads might as well be two different calibers" is that the intended advantage is that even though two loads, one for the pistol and one for the carbine as best performing in each, they are still the same cartridge and CAN be shot through either pistol or rifle.
if you carry a 5.56mm and a 9mm, when you're out of ammo, for either, its done. When your rifle and pistol are the same caliber, if you use up all the ammo for one, you still have ammo for the other, which could be transferred to the other gun at need.
Now I'm not going to go into various possible, (and possibly ridiculous) scenarios where one would do this under fire. The point isn't, to keep your gun running under fire, but just to extend the ability to keep a gun running, with something to shoot.
While very important, the entire world is not made of combat & police use of firearms. And because a particular design has been eclipsed for service and duty use, doesn't mean they are no longer effective, just that they are not as efficient as other designs.
many have remarked on the "downside" of the loading gate system, and I do admit I'd had my share of pinched and bloody fingers, until I finally figured out the way to do it right. And that it to use another cartridge to push the preceding one through the gate, not to use your finger to do it.
If its tactical you want to consider, consider that the Henry tube system shares some of the muzzle loader's need for the muzzle to be elevated during loading. The gate system can be loaded entirely prone,, or even with the muzzle pointed down... if the scenario you are considering is loading the mag while someone is shooting at you, then being able to be as low prone as possible might be a useful thing.
Personally, I think pairing a lever gun with a DA revolver or a semi auto just isn't "right" in the style sense. A lever gun belongs with an SA revolver, it the classic combination.
I have a Ruger Blackhawk .357, and a Marlin 1894, they go together well. My S&W Highway Patrolman just isn't the same kind of style "fit" with the lever gun. Neither is my Desert Eagle.
if you carry a 5.56mm and a 9mm, when you're out of ammo, for either, its done. When your rifle and pistol are the same caliber, if you use up all the ammo for one, you still have ammo for the other, which could be transferred to the other gun at need.
Now I'm not going to go into various possible, (and possibly ridiculous) scenarios where one would do this under fire. The point isn't, to keep your gun running under fire, but just to extend the ability to keep a gun running, with something to shoot.
While very important, the entire world is not made of combat & police use of firearms. And because a particular design has been eclipsed for service and duty use, doesn't mean they are no longer effective, just that they are not as efficient as other designs.
many have remarked on the "downside" of the loading gate system, and I do admit I'd had my share of pinched and bloody fingers, until I finally figured out the way to do it right. And that it to use another cartridge to push the preceding one through the gate, not to use your finger to do it.
If its tactical you want to consider, consider that the Henry tube system shares some of the muzzle loader's need for the muzzle to be elevated during loading. The gate system can be loaded entirely prone,, or even with the muzzle pointed down... if the scenario you are considering is loading the mag while someone is shooting at you, then being able to be as low prone as possible might be a useful thing.
Personally, I think pairing a lever gun with a DA revolver or a semi auto just isn't "right" in the style sense. A lever gun belongs with an SA revolver, it the classic combination.
I have a Ruger Blackhawk .357, and a Marlin 1894, they go together well. My S&W Highway Patrolman just isn't the same kind of style "fit" with the lever gun. Neither is my Desert Eagle.
Terminatorret
New member
Very well put, 44 AMP.
It may seem like that, today, because we're all modern folks with planes, trains, and automobiles, and worse, cell phones...
but the idea of one ammo supply for your long gun and handgun dates waaay back.Back to when travelling meant on foot, or horseback, carriage or wagon, and it took days or weeks to get between places where you could resupply, and everything you needed (other than food you could forage) had to be carried on your back, or your horse/mule's back.
In the flintlock days, long gun and hand gun ammo was the same, other than the size ball fired. Same "primers" same powder, and same lead. The only "specialty" tool needed for each was the bullet mold (if they were different sizes). Move up to the percussion era, and it is still all the same, if your long gun and handgun used the same size caps.
SO it was, for centuries, until we get to cartridges, and the different size cases used by the different rifle and handgun mechanisms. Now, one needed two different and non-interchangeable ammo supplies. The idea of only needing to pack one ammo supply for both guns had a long history, and made good sense. So, when rifles and pistols using the same ammo became available, it made good sense to a lot of people, people who spent days, weeks, and sometimes months living in the wilderness, with all their supplies carried by pack animals, which placed limits on the size and weight of what was carried.
44 AMP said:
Sure sounds like a survival scenario
At any rate, you make a good point about the historic need and significance, but back to my point: When's the last time any of us were in this situation?
I'm not arguing it shouldn't be done, mind you, but just that, beyond it's romantic appeal, it's overrated most serious purposes, given the options modern shooters now have and the conditions they're likely to want/need firepower.
If all my guns had to have such solid justifications, I wouldn't have near as many. I am not a hunter or woods walker but still own a couple rifle/revolver combinations. In semis I wouldn't mind having a PCC to go with my 9mm XDE. I also have more bicycles and musical instruments than I need or actually use. I will be the judge whether I should have them.
Personally, I like the challenge of loading a suitable round that fits both carbine and revolver. It's an exceptional challenge, with fixed sights, but is much easier with the adj. type. For casual plinking on a sunny day, or for back-up while deer hunting, or even more serious purposes, the concept of a single load fitting both short and long guns is not dated, in my opinion.
I found dual gun success almost accidentally in the .357 Magnum, when trying Skeeter Skelton's much admired load for the 5" S&W M27 that he carried. Depending on bbl. length, that 13.5 gr load of 2400 backing a GC 158 gr LSWC, produces 1150-1200 fps in 4" or greater revolver bbls. It's truly a keeper for me, producing superb accuracy, moderate recoil and costs less than 6 cents a shot with wheel weight alloy and long paid for molds and dies.
With a home-cast Lyman 358156 GC bullet using Wheel Weight alloy and a pinch of tin, sized to 0.359" or greater, I get < 1.5" 3-shot groups at 100 yds with my Marlin 1894S carbine (2.5x scoped), and the same at 25 yds with two S&W M19's, a Ruger NM Flat Top, and a 5" S&W M27. With a S&W M60 with 3" bbl. the group is more like 2.5" for that same load.
Truly a versatile combination. It chrono's over 1600 fps from the Marlin, making it suitable for KY deer out to say 75 yds. And as Skelton implied in his many writings, it was entirely suitable for defense use at the usual distances. I like it a lot...it's my go-to load for most all .357 guns that I carry or tote here on our farm. It's finished off a cpl of deer, and one horse that we had to put down. Plenty of penetration and superb accuracy.
Are there other combinations that would do as well? Perhaps, but this one works very well for this transplanted KY guy.
As always, if interested, work up to this load after consulting a GOOD manual and considering the pressure implications for your guns.
Best regards, Rod
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I just happen to have a Marlin 1894SR in 44mg and a RSB. I wouldn't have the Marlin except it's a legal deer rifle in Ohio. I have had other 44mg carbines in the past, the Ruger
semi auto and #3s. I never went to the trouble to work up a load for them. I sighted them
in with 240gr JHPs / 22.5gr of 2400, the load I shot in the SBH since the 60s. The 44mg is
a little better than a 357, range is about the same, just a bigger slug. I went Elk hunting one time, 1st trip to western mountains. Had a 300mg/ scope and pistol belt with SBH, 25
rds in the loops, 10 300mgs in pouch and knife. That lasted one day. I was in early 20s and
decided I didn't need the extra gear, Took the knife and 5 extra 300mags.
semi auto and #3s. I never went to the trouble to work up a load for them. I sighted them
in with 240gr JHPs / 22.5gr of 2400, the load I shot in the SBH since the 60s. The 44mg is
a little better than a 357, range is about the same, just a bigger slug. I went Elk hunting one time, 1st trip to western mountains. Had a 300mg/ scope and pistol belt with SBH, 25
rds in the loops, 10 300mgs in pouch and knife. That lasted one day. I was in early 20s and
decided I didn't need the extra gear, Took the knife and 5 extra 300mags.
Cosmodragoon
New member
It might be pretty rare but disasters do occur and some of us live in remote areas. Small towns can be cut off by major snow storms or flooding. I've been part of relief efforts that involve ATV or snowmobile supply deliveries. Those situations might not last more than a few weeks but that's in the Northeast. I've heard some harrowing real-life tales from people living out west or up in Alaska. There is a lot we tend to take for granted in the modern world.
Cosmodragoon said:
Agreed, but I also agree these situations are quite rare. Yet whenever this revolver/rifle combo comes up on the interweb, the general consensus is that it's a highly practical combo. Maybe everyone on the interweb lives in Alaska
Real Gun said:
For the record, neither I nor anyone else wrote or suggested you need justification or that anyone else is in any position to tell you what to own & shoot. If you've got a revolver/rifle combo you like, terrific. I've just pointed out that I personally haven't found much use for the combo outside the range.
In the same historical sense? Probably never..it's been a long time since pioneer days, and outside of recreational events, its very likely they aren't coming back. Machts Nichts.
There is one rifle/pistol ammo combination that is less often talked about, but a lot of people own, .22LR. People seldom carry both at the same time, though some do, but a LOT of people own a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol. Whether they team them up together, or not, one ammo supply feeds both, as a practical matter, or just for fun.
If you say so...on all counts.
Ease and speed of fully loading an empty rifle isn't as much of a concern as having to take it out of battery for safety...and having to partially disassemble the rifle in order to load it...with the latter being the deal breaker for me. It wouldn't be a problem on a clean range with benches and whatnot. In the field, it well could be. All of my guns are primarily weapons, and toys secondarily. The pragmatist in me looks at every potential problem point.
It's a necessity with 22s because the heel-based bullets aren't robust enough to withstand the lateral stresses of a gate...but 22s are rarely pressed into serious service.
As for the topping off without taking the rifle out of battery...or disassembling...it's a little like the ability to detail strip a true to original design 1911 without tools. It may be something that I never need (again) but it's still a nice option to have, especially if there's no downside. Unless and until you need it, you never really know it's there.