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Revolver and Lever action in .357 wise choice?
- Thread starter usr1987
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
tubes and gates
Reading the previous posts regards tubes and gates leads me to state that until the modern Henry Rifle Co reintroduced the tube feed in their line of rifles, nobody produced any type of tube feed rifle other than .22's. Tube loading was superseded by gate loading in cartridges other than .22 and in lever rifles intended for rugged use as the superiority of the gate was recognized by both designer, producer and user. Browning/Winchester did not stay with the removable tube in their designs. The removable tube feed died with the Spencer and the .44 Henry (until resurrected by "new" Henry). Note too that other designs that utilize an underbarrel magazine tube, and I'm thinking later centerfire pump rifles and shotguns, do not use a removable tube either. Tubes can get lost, bent and worn........ . 22 versions of this system show those problems on a regular basis.
I own tube feed .22's (doesn't everbody?), even a .22 Henry. I enjoy them and shoot them often, but I find them a pain to load. Users of new Henry's in centerfire use and like their rifles and that is fine too. But I see no way to easily load one unless the muzzle is upwards,and the rifle is placed butt first on the ground (might as well have a ramrod). If one does not mind that sort of thing, and is careful not to lose or bend the mag tube, the tube Henry's will work for you just fine. But from a design standpoint, in simplicity, ruggendness and durability the gate has an edge .
Gate loading was selected to go forward as a concept.....tube loading was left behind, by the best gun minds in the business at the time.
Reading the previous posts regards tubes and gates leads me to state that until the modern Henry Rifle Co reintroduced the tube feed in their line of rifles, nobody produced any type of tube feed rifle other than .22's. Tube loading was superseded by gate loading in cartridges other than .22 and in lever rifles intended for rugged use as the superiority of the gate was recognized by both designer, producer and user. Browning/Winchester did not stay with the removable tube in their designs. The removable tube feed died with the Spencer and the .44 Henry (until resurrected by "new" Henry). Note too that other designs that utilize an underbarrel magazine tube, and I'm thinking later centerfire pump rifles and shotguns, do not use a removable tube either. Tubes can get lost, bent and worn........ . 22 versions of this system show those problems on a regular basis.
I own tube feed .22's (doesn't everbody?), even a .22 Henry. I enjoy them and shoot them often, but I find them a pain to load. Users of new Henry's in centerfire use and like their rifles and that is fine too. But I see no way to easily load one unless the muzzle is upwards,and the rifle is placed butt first on the ground (might as well have a ramrod). If one does not mind that sort of thing, and is careful not to lose or bend the mag tube, the tube Henry's will work for you just fine. But from a design standpoint, in simplicity, ruggendness and durability the gate has an edge .
Gate loading was selected to go forward as a concept.....tube loading was left behind, by the best gun minds in the business at the time.
I have a 4.2 inch GP100. It handles anything I run through it. I also have a SP101 that does well in all I place in it. Ruger makes a seven shot GP100 you may want to consider. The one extra round you gain with the Redhawk doesn't justify the extra weight, in my opinion.
I too want to pair my .357 revolvers with a lever AND bolt action .357 rifle
I too want to pair my .357 revolvers with a lever AND bolt action .357 rifle
silvermane_1
New member
Well the plus side of a Ruger Redhawk in 357 is those 8 holes in the cylinder and the fact it probably can shoot the 200 gr. "Hammerhead" type rounds, the only real downside of a 357 RH is the bulk/size/weight but you can shoot 357 ammo that "rubs shoulders" with 357 maxi/supermag.
Well the plus side of a Ruger Redhawk in 357 is those 8 holes in the cylinder and the fact it probably can shoot the 200 gr. "Hammerhead" type rounds, the only real downside of a 357 RH is the bulk/size/weight but you can shoot 357 ammo that "rubs shoulders" with 357 maxi/supermag.
Once you make cylinder walls thin enough to spread 8 rounds, the Redhawk's strength may be overrated.
Jim Watson
New member
The removable tube feed died with the Spencer and the .44 Henry
The original and faithful replica 1860 Henry rifles do not have a removable tube magazine.
I once saw a picture of a Henry that had been modified or prototyped with a slip tube and had a walnut foreend added. It had a slot to load the tube through. Nobody on the museum staff or the gunzine staff or anybody who might have written in knew where it came from.
Marlin made a few gate loading .22 lever actions but soon went over to the slip tube.
The Colt Lightning .22 had its own design of rear loading.
The slip tube magazine has the advantage for a .22 that it is less likely to get lost than a small clip. In those days, rifles were carried in the woods and a blue clip in the brush was a lot harder to find than a long brass tube, even assuming you let it get away from you.
silvermane_1
New member
Well that depends if 357 Redhawk cylinder is made out of the same material that 480 Ruger SRH cylinder is made out of.Once you make cylinder walls thin enough to spread 8 rounds, the Redhawk's strength may be overrated.
Update: apparently the 480 and 454 Ruger SRH cylinder is made from Carpenter 465 Stainless Steel.
Last edited:
jetinteriorguy
New member
I load my Henry's all the time without ever once setting the butt on the ground or pointing the muzzle up. Just holding them at even a 30 deg angle or so is enough for the bullets to slide down the tube, and I do it holding the rifle at waist height with one hand while putting bullets in with the other. Easy peasy. Just my personal experience.
If I had found the right deal on a .357 lever, I'd be following you- that is how wise the choice is [I think- so it must be true!].
However, I took a less wise choice- as it is more expensive: lever action .44mag to go with SuperRedhawk [and Super Blackhawk].
Not as cheap to run, but more 'umph' and it was the right deal for me at the right time: probalby 90-95% condition [just a small crack in stock: easy to fix] JM marked Marlin for about $425 [after factoring cost of sling, scope and base- which my eyes require anyway].
If I could sell a few rifles, I would STILL be tempted to get a .357mag lever as well: cheaper to run than the .44mag version.
Power and humane shooting mean I prefer the .44mag over the .357mag. Money makes me like the .357 more- 2 boxes for the price of 1.
Longer shots? I have other calibers that are good out to distances I can't hit the target at [my skills are the limit- but good up to 400+ yards for 'defensive' shooting.]
However, I took a less wise choice- as it is more expensive: lever action .44mag to go with SuperRedhawk [and Super Blackhawk].
Not as cheap to run, but more 'umph' and it was the right deal for me at the right time: probalby 90-95% condition [just a small crack in stock: easy to fix] JM marked Marlin for about $425 [after factoring cost of sling, scope and base- which my eyes require anyway].
If I could sell a few rifles, I would STILL be tempted to get a .357mag lever as well: cheaper to run than the .44mag version.
Power and humane shooting mean I prefer the .44mag over the .357mag. Money makes me like the .357 more- 2 boxes for the price of 1.
Longer shots? I have other calibers that are good out to distances I can't hit the target at [my skills are the limit- but good up to 400+ yards for 'defensive' shooting.]
The scope is better reserved for a rifle caliber and its distance potential. I have one on my JM 30-30 and my 22. I think of my 44 Mag Marlin as a max 50 yard gun, within which I can see well enough to make a shot. My 357, same thing...handgun caliber gets no scope. Otherwise, I would have bought a bolt action or a 45-70.
You can see better, especially front sights, if you have shooting glasses with a bifocal cut on the top of the dominant eye lens. That is a better investment than scopes on everything. At 50 yards or less, you don't need to see the target in focus unless it is a little varmint, wrong rifle.
You can see better, especially front sights, if you have shooting glasses with a bifocal cut on the top of the dominant eye lens. That is a better investment than scopes on everything. At 50 yards or less, you don't need to see the target in focus unless it is a little varmint, wrong rifle.
Earlier, I posted some thoughts on a .357 revolver/rifle (S&W's, Rugers & my Marlin 1894S), and thought I'd add my work with a Ruger .44 Magnum Flat Top 40th Anniversary Blackhawk, my Marlin 336 in .44 Magnum and my son's Marlin 1894 Octagon bbl'd. .44.
Both of the rifles performed very well with a variety of jacketed bullets, both Remington 240 gr JHP's as well as Hornady's excellent XTP's in 200 & 240 gr weights. All three bullet types did very well in our .44 handguns's too. (3 Ruger .44 Special Flat Top BH's, the aforementioned .44 Mag Anniversary BH, two S&W M29's, and a S&W M69 and M629. The loads listed below will do less than 2" or a bit better at 100 yds from the rifles, and less than 1.5" at 25 (from a rest) with any of the handguns.
If you're into cast bullets, the Marlins can be a bit more demanding. I use my own cast LSWC's fitted with annealed Hornady gas checks and size them all to 0.432". Cast from an alloy of air cooled wheel weights, with a pinch of tin to help with mold fill out, I use 50-50 alox/beeswax lube and have no problems getting great accuracy, and no leading even with Marlin's Micro-Groove rifling. Herco or Win 231 are good powders with Lyman's 429215gc at ~225 gr or 429244gc at ~250 gr. With either powder, 8.5 gr is a superb load doing as well as the best of my efforts with Hornady XTP's. BTW, Marlins reportedly, can have feeding problems with LSWC's, as well as with overall cartridge length, but these two, GC'd cast bullets feed just fine through through our guns.
These two cast bullets, sized 0.432" do equally well in all of our handguns, showing no signs of over pressure, and producing groups that run well below 2" at 25 yds from a rest. Throats in the short guns run from 0.430" to 0.432". We've experiences no significant leading with the wheel weight alloy, and the 50-50 lube. Lyman's 429215 GC with 8.1 grains of Win 231 gives me 1045 fps from the 6.5" Ruger Flat Top Magnum and an estimated 1400 fps from the rifles.
In our guns, with the jacketed bullets listed above, especially Hornady's 200 gr XTP, we've had great success with 18.5 grains of AA #9 for ~1600 fps or 23.5grs. of Winchester 296 for 1750 fps with the 240 gr Hornady XTP. Either is a first rate deer load on our KY white tails with the long guns and an authoritative load in the handguns.
As always as, these are my loads, checked with both Lyman #49 and Sierra Infinity manuals, and I've found them safe in my guns. If interested you should consult your manuals, consider the pressure implications and work up to them slowly.
Best Regards and HTH's, Rod
Both of the rifles performed very well with a variety of jacketed bullets, both Remington 240 gr JHP's as well as Hornady's excellent XTP's in 200 & 240 gr weights. All three bullet types did very well in our .44 handguns's too. (3 Ruger .44 Special Flat Top BH's, the aforementioned .44 Mag Anniversary BH, two S&W M29's, and a S&W M69 and M629. The loads listed below will do less than 2" or a bit better at 100 yds from the rifles, and less than 1.5" at 25 (from a rest) with any of the handguns.
If you're into cast bullets, the Marlins can be a bit more demanding. I use my own cast LSWC's fitted with annealed Hornady gas checks and size them all to 0.432". Cast from an alloy of air cooled wheel weights, with a pinch of tin to help with mold fill out, I use 50-50 alox/beeswax lube and have no problems getting great accuracy, and no leading even with Marlin's Micro-Groove rifling. Herco or Win 231 are good powders with Lyman's 429215gc at ~225 gr or 429244gc at ~250 gr. With either powder, 8.5 gr is a superb load doing as well as the best of my efforts with Hornady XTP's. BTW, Marlins reportedly, can have feeding problems with LSWC's, as well as with overall cartridge length, but these two, GC'd cast bullets feed just fine through through our guns.
These two cast bullets, sized 0.432" do equally well in all of our handguns, showing no signs of over pressure, and producing groups that run well below 2" at 25 yds from a rest. Throats in the short guns run from 0.430" to 0.432". We've experiences no significant leading with the wheel weight alloy, and the 50-50 lube. Lyman's 429215 GC with 8.1 grains of Win 231 gives me 1045 fps from the 6.5" Ruger Flat Top Magnum and an estimated 1400 fps from the rifles.
In our guns, with the jacketed bullets listed above, especially Hornady's 200 gr XTP, we've had great success with 18.5 grains of AA #9 for ~1600 fps or 23.5grs. of Winchester 296 for 1750 fps with the 240 gr Hornady XTP. Either is a first rate deer load on our KY white tails with the long guns and an authoritative load in the handguns.
As always as, these are my loads, checked with both Lyman #49 and Sierra Infinity manuals, and I've found them safe in my guns. If interested you should consult your manuals, consider the pressure implications and work up to them slowly.
Best Regards and HTH's, Rod
I have 2 combo sets like this, first is a Rossi M92 and a Ruger Service Six in .357.
My second set is a Marlin 1894 and a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum.
The .357 is for white tails and coyotes and other varmints ( 2 and 4 legged).
The .44 mag is for hogs and other more dangerous critters. Nice to only have to pack one kind of ammo for both guns. Henry makes a great lever gun but I prefer a side loading gate myself versus the tube magazine.
My second set is a Marlin 1894 and a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum.
The .357 is for white tails and coyotes and other varmints ( 2 and 4 legged).
The .44 mag is for hogs and other more dangerous critters. Nice to only have to pack one kind of ammo for both guns. Henry makes a great lever gun but I prefer a side loading gate myself versus the tube magazine.