Results of my Open Carry Wal-Mart complaint

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I still say in your hand

If you choose to open carry, it should be in your hand. It is no more threatening than your holster and a heck of a lot faster when the hoardes of parking lot thugs move in. You can load and push your cart one handed. Lots of people function this way everyday.

Lest you think I'm joking. I think we all remember how things turned out for 'Texas Red'. The way Marty Robbins told it, Red's gun never cleared leather before a bullet fairly ripped him from the stranger with the big iron on his hip.

Yeah, open hand carry sounds pretty good about now, huh.
 
For God's sake, it's private property.
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Yep, and it's the customer's money that they want, and the customer gets to choose where to spend it.

Anyone here remember when most homes had a Sears catalog? Everyone shopped at Sears, because Sears had the best customer service.

Things change. I haven't seen one of those big, heavy Sears catalogs in years, and the Sears here doesn't even sell paint any more.

Daryl
 
Sears catalog went away because thier customer service went south?:confused:
I think these changes took place because society changed, not because of a customer revolt!

All that I have seen involving Walmarts relationship with its customers is not that great. They kind of treat us like a bunch of minnows in a tank. Like we have no choice but to eat what ever they drop onto the surface. Unfortunately, in my area we don't have much of a choice!

The store has definately took a nose dive in customer relationships since the "old man" passed away. They also are bigger now by about 100 times.
So who says what is the right way to do buisness?

@ OP
Did he say if you would be asked to leave again if seen carring?

"JJ"
 
* He said that in todays society it's not uncomon for people to be afraid when seeing somone open carrying.
* He said he looked up Wal-Marts official policy on open cary, and found that it is leagal and permited where state law applies, however Wal-Mart (obviously) reserves the right keep you from open carrying in their store if they feel the need.
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Im wondering if we'll see any "No Open Carry" signs at businesses? As opposed to "No Guns" signs.
 
Open carry in a place like Wal-mart only invites trouble, legal or not. Given it is private property and a place of business, I would expect nothing else. Personally, I don't think they owe you anything, least of all an apology.
I don't want to get on a soap box, but we, as gun owners, have to realize that the public may not be as sympathic or understanding as we are. Common sense goes a long way and open carry in a place of business is not common sense.
 
wal-mart open cary

I have to agree with batmann common sense should be used when carrying a firearm openly in a store of any size.Remember we as shooters are a minority.
 
We shooters are NOT the minority. Look at any recent public poll. Look at the court decisions going our way. Look at the comments whenever there is a gun control discussion in a public forum. The Pro-2A people are a very large MAJORITY of the US population. The common citizen is getting fed up with two things. They are getting fed up with being a victim to violent crime, and there are getting fed up with government intervention. The problem is the anti-gun groups scream and clamor so loudly about any and every little thing, that people believe them to be some all powerful group. Their propaganda has been pushed so hard that it has made deep inroads into even pro-gun groups.

Openly carrying a firearm in every business that does not have a gun buster sign posted makes perfect sense to me and I do it every day. Including Wal Mart.
 
We shooters are NOT the minority. Look at any recent public poll. Look at the court decisions going our way. Look at the comments whenever there is a gun control discussion in a public forum. The Pro-2A people are a very large MAJORITY of the US population. The common citizen is getting fed up with two things. They are getting fed up with being a victim to violent crime, and there are getting fed up with government intervention. The problem is the anti-gun groups scream and clamor so loudly about any and every little thing, that people believe them to be some all powerful group. Their propaganda has been pushed so hard that it has made deep inroads into even pro-gun groups.

Openly carrying a firearm in every business that does not have a gun buster sign posted makes perfect sense to me and I do it every day. Including Wal Mart.
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NavyLT,
with all due respect, please post your sources. While I agree with most of what you said, I find it hard to believe we are the majority. I'm not saying you're wrong... Id just like some stats.

Just because some major court cases went out way doesnt mean we are the majority. It just means their doing the their job in supporting our rights.
 
Sport shooters and yearly hunters are probably not the majority
Owners of firearms are probably not the majority.
People who have fired a gun AND ALSO have a positive outlook on shooting are more than likely the majority b/c the previous two are pretty close. If you include people who have fired a gun OR people who have a positive outlook on firearm ownership and shooting I think you would easily pass 50%
The requested citations would be nice of course.

It's is private property they can make you do what they want
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It is owned by the corporation, not the manager. the corporation has set policy the manager of the store is an employee and has to follow it. They may not care a whole lot about gun rights, but they probably still care about insubordination.

He does not have property rights over the store, he has rights to enforce the corporations policy.
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-My thought.
Legally, in the heat of the moment I guess this isn't really true if he asks you to leave you are legally obligated to do so, but ?corporately? it is and they can remove him from his position if he chooses not to do his job so in the long term if he doesn't have the legal right to ask you to leave.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies... I enjoyed them all. I'm happy to see so many veiws of this thread. The more the merrier, especially when it comes to anything involving our rights!;)
Not sure if I'll take any further action. I feel like an appology from wal-mart would be appropriate given the way they *kicking me out* of the store. Will see if I get around to it. The idea that corporate might tell me that I'm alowed to carry in the store whether or not people are complaining or the manager doesnt like it is kind of enticing, however I doubt it could be that simple. If I have anything new for you all, I'll be sure to post it.
Thanks again!
 
First of all, let me start out by saying that I whole heartedly support the right to carry.

With that being said, I think you have to choose your battles. Of course you have the right to carry as you wish, but you sometimes have to be prepared for the backlash you may encounter.

It a timeless arguement. For example, I have seen woman that wear things that leave little to the imagination. They have the right to wear whatever the like. However, as a result of that choice, these woman may encounter people who whistle at them, or even say rude things. Point being, you sometimes have to deal with certain public reactions that you may not like.

Just my thoughts....
-George
 
mellow c-
Actually, it IS that simple. I know someone who went through a similar situation, complained to corporate, was issued an apology, and the manager got his butt chewed.
 
3) Walmart's Corp policy "is" to abide by whatever the State Laws are... period. If a particular store / Mgr is not living up to that, the Corp office's will educate their Mgr. ......
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When state law ALLOWS open carry, that law does not mean that it requires businesses to accept open carry on their premises. What is the actual language of the law in THAT state?

You may find that the law gives businesses the freedom to decide -- if so, denying open carry would be consistent with what State law are...period.

This might be a bit like restaurants offering alcoholic beverages: just because state law may ALLOW alcoholic beverages to be sold does not mean that all restaurants MUST do so. And, if you've got to have beer or wine with your meal (or something harder), you just have to eat at a different restaurant.
 
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When state law ALLOWS open carry, that law does not mean that it requires businesses to accept open carry on their premises. What is the actual language of the law in THAT state?

You'll never find a state in which private businesses are forced to allow carry (open or otherwise) on their premises. The private-property rights of the owner to forbid carry will (and should, in my opinion) supersede the patron's right to carry.
 
Let's take a peek at the 5 points below from what the OP reported...

* He understood that I was not happy with the way the sittuation was handled (no appology was given at any point in our conversation)
* He said that in todays society it's not uncomon for people to be afraid when seeing somone open carrying.
* He said he looked up Wal-Marts official policy on open cary, and found that it is leagal and permited where state law applies, however Wal-Mart (obviously) reserves the right keep you from open carrying in their store if they feel the need.
* Because I brought this issue to their attention, they have now had formal training on how to handle similar situations.
* He said, he would have hoped that the employees that spoke with me would have asked me to leave my firearm in my car or at home, rather than just kick me out of the store with out an invitation to come back.
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First up is the polite expression of sympathy and the non apology combined with the sentiment of understanding. This is a common thing as the direct formal apology would have implied that they did something wrong and legally they try to avoid doing this directly when people complain. Corporations train folks in how to do this. It protects them. They do not formally, legally acknowledge guilt of any wrong doing. Don't worry about it.

Point Two: This is obvious and a correct and common point. When I see a cop with a gun I get nervous. When I see a random white man with a gun I get especially nervous.

Point three: Your complaint caused them to examine their store policy. That is positive and a step forward. He then reminds you that if you come into their store drunk, high, acting weird or acting a fool they reserve the right to toss you out gun or no. That point is a common one.

Point Four: Your complaint resulted in them training their employees in how to deal with an uncommon situation for them and it straightened out misconceptions. Score another one for you.

Point Five: He admits the incident could have been handled differently and gives an example of how. Here he shows he's willing to discuss the issue further. Another step forward for you.

So pretty much it boils down to this...The op went to a store open carrying. Someone said something to a store employee and they went and asked the op to leave cuz his carrying was making folks nervous. The OP left but complained to the store about the incident. The store responded by clarifying their policy to all employees (open carry is allowed in this state so we allow that in the store all other standard provisions apply of course) and made an effort to smooth it over with the op. That's it, all done minor incident.

Oh, except for this...the op felt the store had not kissed his behind enough so he complained on this forum some and some here are sympathetic and some not so much. Case closed.

tipoc
 
Just another point of view from a former Leo !

OK folks, the comment that some people are bothered by seeing a holstered gun is IMHO is Baloney, I was in public all the time while a Leo both in uniform and civies, never got a second glance of worry, mostly got polite nods, smiles from the ladies most of the time, and second looks and smiles from the kids, also heard parents saying to the little peanuts, he's a policeman, I always got smiles of greetings, nods, hello's. I don't agree that people are scared of the holstered gun. What do you look like, what kind of clothing are you wearing, tattoo's, face hair ?....And yes some of my fellow officers could very easily pass as 16-20 yr old gang bangers, they would get some looks and always hid the gear if possible, or wore the badge hanging around their neck or clipped to the belt. But for someone to be scared of a gun that is holstered in public, come on now. For real now, it's the ignorant uninformed little sheep that complained to management and not knowing how to deal with it, did the most obvious thing and asked you to leave. I bet they were fairly polite and maybe scared of the situation. You would be better off if you can, to get a CCW permit and do it right. The sheep would never know !
OH and you never did tell us exactly what and how you were setup, cowboy rig ? thigh holster/swat job, belt level holstered revolver, SOB. IT Does make a difference. Ok, enough book writing today.
Oh I had a hard time off duty with belt carry, as I'm 6'6" tall, and anybody could look at me and see my holsters or other belt riding gear under my jacket.

Take care !

Duane USN/ret
 
He does not have property rights over the store, he has rights to enforce the corporations policy.
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-My thought.
Legally, in the heat of the moment I guess this isn't really true if he asks you to leave you are legally obligated to do so, but ?corporately? it is and they can remove him from his position if he chooses not to do his job so in the long term if he doesn't have the legal right to ask you to leave.
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Right, as manager of the store, he is the manager of the property on which the store is located and serves as the representative for the corporation and hence speaks for the corporation and therefore effectively holds the rights to the property except as otherwise stipulated by contract or law or until he is relieved of the position or a person higher up in the organization takes control of the property.

For that matter, employees hold the same effective rights of the property. An old, crippled Walmart greeter has the power to order you out of the store acting as the representative for the store if you are doing something wrong such as carrying where carrying isn't allowed until which time of some higher ranking person appears.
 
What part of this do you guys not understand??
Walmart's corporate policy is to follow state laws. No individual store can deny legal carry.
 
State law also allows the owner of private property (or his representative) to ask someone to leave, even they're carrying legally.

In cases such as this, the rights of the individual don't trump the rights of the property owner or his representative.
 
Ever think of discussing your intent to open carry in the store with the store manager before you did it?? The open carry issue likely was not on this manager's radar screen. Had you taken the time to do so, the manager would have had a chance to brief his associates who would have been prepared when you finally began open carry in the store. I don't get this in your face sort of approach. All it gets is a bad portrayal of the rest of us gunowners.
 
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