Results of my Open Carry Wal-Mart complaint

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Tom Renzo,

We are both passionate in our beliefs and in our means of self protection. What matters is that we do/did serve our country (you far more than I), that we do protect ourselves and our loved ones from harm.

We have both allowed our passion to overshadow our civility at some points, and I apologize for when I have allowed that to happen on my end. I respect your service and your passion for American rights, and we can agree to disagree on certain other points, if that is acceptable :D.
 
Some might think that well-regulated means EXACTLY that - trained
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Two of the nations foremost language usage professors were given the phrase:

"A well educated society, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."

Both professors agreed that there was no requirement, such as belonging to a book club, before being able to excercise the right. Both agreed that the intent was for people to be able to keep and read books so they may become educated.

When both professors were then read (on separate occasions) the Second Amendment, they knew they'd been tricked, but both stood their ground and maintained there were no conditions as a prerequisite to excercising the right, and that the purpose of the second amendment was that individuals may be armed so that THEY MAY FORM MILITIAS in order to protect the security of the state.

Both agreed that it would have been more clear if the subordinate clause read "SINCE a well regulated militia IS necessary.................., but the intent of the dominate clause was quite clear.

I believe the source of this info came from one of John Lott's books, but I'd have to look it up (once again) to be sure:cool:.
 
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WOW!!

I read the OP and postings on the first page and thought "I might have something to say about that". Then I jumped to the last page and read the posting and thought "wait a minute... is the same thread?"

What I wanted to add, regarding the OP was....
Any private establishment has the right to allow or disallow weapons of any kind. If they think it's in the best interest of their customers (regardless of what we all know) they can "post" the rules on for front door for all to see and abide by.

Sounds like Wally World was wrong on several counts.
1 - They don't have anything posted saying you cant carry.
2 - The manager/employees who handled the incident (an incident they created) didn't know or understand the company rules/policy.
3 - There should have been an apology from the manager for your treatment.

But on private property, you only have the "rights" that they grant you.

Another thing I found interesting is the "I'm the Good Guy" concept. They cant possibly know that your the good guy and that your there to help protect them. Certainly not with the news pointing out every wacko that does something stupid with a gun these days. I never see reports on the news about the CCW guy who stopped a robbery, do you? The media paints the picture that when a guy walks into a store with a guy, it must be time to run. Never how guns keep people safe.

Finally, I've known a lot of @$$h0les in my time, and they all thought they we pretty "Good Guys" too. I'm not casting aspersions on anyone's character. I'm just saying... if a jerk thinks he's an OK guy, how can the average mom in Wallmart with her kids, know your the "good guy".

There's a fine line between practicing your right to carry and considering the feelings of the average citizen. If not being around guns makes them "feel" safe, they have that right too.

My .02¢

BTW / FYI: Shooter / Reloader for 30 years. Never in the Military (but my thanks to you guys who did serve). Planning on taking a class to get my CCW. Never carried open (but is is allowed in AZ where I live). But I always feel safer when I do see someone carrying.
 
your there to help protect them.
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No I'm not. I am there to protect myself not strangers. I think the legislation and decisions are very clear on this across the country.

They cant possibly know that your the good guy and that your there to help protect them.
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How many cases are there of an active shooter openly carrying immediately prior to the event? I can not remember a single one.
Criminals of every flavor conceal their weapons.
 
I am neither for nor against open carry. I do believe under some circumstances, open carry will attract attention the person does not want. Either from a: 1) BG actively robbing someone at gun point, or from 2) granny calling law enforcement about a man with a gun.

Does number one happen a lot? No, but it could. And no, I have no statistics for this. But common sense says it COULD happen. Probably has, but again, I have no statistics. Does number two happen a lot? Yes, but honestly, in UT, not as much as it used to years ago.

Calls to law enforcement in regard to someone open carrying have declined; or at least around here they have. However, if LE (Law Enforcement) is called, they have to respond and then and LEO has to question the person open carrying the firearm.

In UT, if the person has a permit, they can open carry fully loaded. If they do not produce a permit, the handgun has to be checked to make sure it is two-actions away from firing. This means a handgun has to be handled. (But to be fair to all, if someone is carrying concealed, and their handgun is accidentally displayed, and granny calls, an LEO will be dispatched too. In which case the person better have a permit.)

This does take LE away from other assignments. (Some of those assignments might be radar patrol:D, some might be more important and life threatening.). In some case, LE is not a local LEO, or a country LEO, but a Federal officer and that Federal officer has to drive a great distance to answer the complaint. UT is 60% controlled by the Federal Government.

So, carry open if legal and that is what you prefer. But don't complain if a company asks you to leave, or LE is called and they confront you. That is the right of the private property owner, and that is the job LE has to do.

I will say that even though Wallyworld did not handle the original thread authors confrontation in what I would say is a correct manner, they had the right to do so.

My two-cents and that is all I will give. This thread started out ok, but turned pretty nasty in the end.
 
Open Carry

Dear Mr. Mellow:

I believe it is very juvenile of you to openly flaunt your ability to
carry a weapon in a public area. You, and those that agree with
you, must not be living in the real world. Carrying a weapon is a right under
the 2ND Amendment, but it carries responsibilities. We must respect
those that are afraid of guns, for whatever reason. I am an old man
(68) and carry concealed every day. It is a non-issue. You can
protect yourself and your family without intimidating others.

Thanks,

Dan
 
avakadava said:
Dear Mr. Mellow:

I believe it is very juvenile of you to openly flaunt your ability to
carry a weapon in a public area. You, and those that agree with
you, must not be living in the real world. Carrying a weapon is a right under
the 2ND Amendment, but it carries responsibilities. We must respect
those that are afraid of guns, for whatever reason. I am an old man
(68) and carry concealed every day. It is a non-issue. You can
protect yourself and your family without intimidating others.

Thanks,

Dan
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Mr Navy Lt.

Dear Mr. Navy Lt.
I do not believe that your were ever an officer in the U. S Navy.
I am retired Air Force and worked for over 20 years at the National Archives and Records Center. The Center has the military
records for everyone that ever served in the U. S. military.

If your would provide your service number, we could verify you actual
service and credentials.

You can E-Mail me at: d-a-c@earthlink.net
 
Ok, all done here. It's unacceptable to call someone out publicly/question their credentials simply because you disgree with them.


Actually if I'd read closely enough to see post #78 of this thread it would have gotten closed earlier. Insulting everyone who doesn't espouse your views/follow your example is not a acceptable debate technique at TFL.
 
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