Republicans denounce attack on Smith

I just saw Sen. Smith give his speech on why he is leaving the Republican Party. I certainly must applaud the man for his principle and courage. I found it most interesting that his voting record, along with Sen. Craig's, was the most loyal to the Republican platform.

It's going to be an interesting election in 2000.

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken
 
Way to GO GS !!! (pssst. the feds do read this you know)

NOW ...... for all those who didn't do well in math class.....( I've posted this before , but some must have missed it )

1. There are 80 million gun owners.
2. last election just over 45 million votes were cast in the presidential election.
Even if only 25% of the gun owners voted for a pro Constitution candidate they couldn't lose !

Now why is it that you are going to vote for Bush?

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What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 
to you libertarians......vote the way your counscience tells you ....
I remember the folks who were talking big about voting for perot and how they were gonna show the republicans by casting that vote for perot-----we all know what happened they showed em and as a result we have how many restrictive gun laws now and were pushed to the edge right?....part of voting your principle is to look at the consequences of your actions, not just the part that makes ya feel good.....
It is my belief that in the 60's the communist influenced a great deal of the social up-heaval in the U.S.,,,Im beginning to wonder if the democrats are not somehow influencing the libertarians in much the same way as they will ultimately be the only ones benefitting from a 3rd party canidate-----Im not anti-libertarian, I just think a better way to go about this is to win first and work with the existing frame work to secure alliances and a power base to move the republican party to the right......

Im gonna buy a bumper sticker that says........Vote Libertarian and ensure a Democratic victory....look at the history.....fubsy.
 
Fubsy, you do that sticker thing, and you're gonna catch no end of flak from Libertarians.

I understand where you're coming from, but saying that Libs are responsible for Democratic victories is like saying gun owners are responsible for HCI. That argument don't wash.

You need to realize that the existing framework is FUBAR. It's time to tear down the dangerous edifice of our current system and start from a fresh blueprint. Working within the system is what's got us to this point.

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You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
fubsy, I normally agree with your posts, but I have to take issue with your last one. Yes, let's look at history.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall the Republicans have had control of both houses of Congress since '94. In that time, how many gun control laws did Congress vote to repeal? How many gun control laws passed, and were signed into law? Which number is greater?

How many of the people running the ATF and FBI operations at Ruby Ridge and Waco were tried for their crimes by the Republican-controlled Congress after the hearings? How many were fired? How many got raises and promotions? Which number is greater?

Coinneach is right, saying the Dems win because folks decide to vote other than Republican is poor reasoning. It is just as logical to say that if wasn't for anti-gun George the First stealing votes from Perot that Perot would have won.

If the consequence of my voting is that I help one anti-BoR politician get elected, then I have chosen poorly and have made my own situation worse, not better.

BTW, I'll take a stack of those bumper stickers; I'd love to send some to the RNC and to my congresscritters. ;)

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken


[This message has been edited by Ipecac (edited July 14, 1999).]
 
Menos thanks for the warning but it is my sincere hope they do try and get me. Like I have said in th past if get 5 before they get me I'll die with a smile on my face.
Now to Mr. Fubsy I can only add to what the others have said by adding that; could you please educate me on what makes you think by voting for the Republicans things will turn in our favor? Additionally, could you explain to me what is the difference between the Demos and the Repub? They both lie, steal and take more of our rights away. The only difference between Bush and Clinton is Bush probably would have had a Mexican girl under the desk. Your thoughts please! "I've decided to live outside the law--- it's better defined"

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"Solidarity is the Key"
 
If I vote my conscience then I never have to regret any vote I cast.

So what if another gun-grabbing anti-contitutionalist is voted in because the public was split three ways. Will I have contributed to that? Nope. Those who voted for the one who wins will be the contributors.

Besides, if that should occur and we get a rabid anti-constitutionalist in office, then maybe all this vomitus incrementalism would disappear and with the ensuing increased freedom encroachment the public would wake up to what has been and is happening.

I would welcome it. At least we would have some kind of resolution within my life-time.

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John/az

"They come, they eat, they leave...
"They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

Bill Clinton (aka: Hopper) Al Gore (aka: Molt) Janet Reno (aka: Thumper)

Ants UNITE!
 
John,
I'm with you. I just can not sit on my hands and lose all that our Founding Fathers and subsequent generations fought and died for. I'm scared - but I'm not so much a coward that I'll sell my children into tyranny.

Guttsmoke,
I'm not suicidal or hoping to become a martyr. I really do believe we have a chance to restore America at the ballot box. But if you're right - if it already is too late, this crippled up ole fat man will load for ya as long as I can. (Cause I figure you're probably a better shot than I am.)
 
When I cast my vote I am utilizing my sovereignty. As such, I bear a portion of the responsibility for the actions of the candidate I vote for should he win.

I did not vote for Reagan. I am not responsible for the ban on new machineguns. Are you?

I did not vote for Bush. I am not responsible for the "assault weapons" ban by executive order. Are you?

I did not vote for Clinton. Thank God I bear none of the responsibility for him. Do you?

Richard Nixon taught me about voting for Republicans.
Jimmy Carter taught me about voting for
Democrats.

Since 1976, I vote Libertarian-the party of principle.

If everyone who whines about "winning" would vote for principle then the Democrats would not win nor would the Republicans.
 
Ok it seems I started / Continued a 'holy war' over the ideas of Fiat vs RealPolitc yes if i could Fiat a new senate that would get us out of the UN I would and if I could Fiat a President that would Veto every gun grabbing bill I would BUT we do not Live in the world of Fiat but in the World of RealPolitc in which you get the best that you can and then work to make sure that the next time the best that you can get is BETTER then what you just got. Please THINK if the Lib's were a serious contender for ANYTHING hwo did LBJ's fair haired boy H.Ross Perot start a party and garner MORE votes than ANY Lib EVER
I am not saying what they belive is wrong or right but it does not matter unitl the can win somthing like Reps ( there is evan an avowed solcist in the house) or Senators or even a gov (heck ex-seal/ex-actor/ex-wrestler perot party guy one a Gov.) then dont even think about the White House. Please DONT help GORE. I am in Texas and the ONLY reason we have CCW is GWB ( I dont like the cost but we can WORK on that) No he is not perfect but neitehr was A.Lincoln or Geo. Washington or any body else in the last 2000 years or so.. By the way those of you who have been here a while know me and my views I am NOT an easy compromiser but I am (reluctantly) a political realist.
 
One more time:

A vote for Bush is a vote for tyranny.

Are you going to vote for a tyrant, or are you going to CHANGE an unacceptable situation instead of bowing to it?

Remember the old saying "If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got."

I'll say it one more time: If you vote for political expediency, you're part of the problem. Bleat all you want about how we're helping Gore (or whoever) by not voting the straight party line, but when TSHTF, I'll be able to sleep, knowing that I tried to help restore the Republic. Will you?

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You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited July 14, 1999).]
 
I haven't yet decided who I will vote for...I have decided who I won't vote for: Gore, Bush, Bradley, Dole or any of the other pezzonovantes.
The only difference between the Dems and Repubs is that the Dems are more honest about how they will screw you and make you pay for it. But, you are gonna get screwed by them both nonetheless and that is a stone fact.
Its gonna get harder and harder in subsequent years to get that entrenched scum the hell out, thus now is the time to begin. I truly believe that in a few years there is a real possibility that 3rd parties will be effectively outlawed or regulated to impotence...then we have no chance. None of these people (Dems and Repubs) believe in the Constitution and the principles that made our country...they are impediments to what they really want, and that is pure power and a controlled subservient populace. You are a fool if you believe different.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
I kinda hate to get into one of these long arguments, but I'll state my own position. It has been obvious to me that the lines between the Dem & Rep have become blurred. The compromises by the Rep have resulted in gains by the liberals and loss of ground by the conservatives. With a Republican controlled congress we have continued to see our freedoms deteriorate. There are issues that I won't compromise on. Moral and gun control. So far G.W. Bush doesn't reflect my positions. Sen Smith does as near as I can tell at this point. Accordingly, I intend to vote for him win or lose. While I would much rather have Bush than any of the Dem I can't in good conscience vote for anyone who compromises on certain issues just to get elected. I recognize the possible consequences of voting for a third party, but I am willing to accept those consequences to stand firm for what I believe. Jerry
 
The Democrat and Republican parties are both essentially CORPORATIONS. As such, their primary objective is to STAY IN BUSINESS. There Secondary objective is to INCREASE THEIR BUSINESS. They are the Coke & Pepsi of Politics (same basic crap, little different flavor, and ultimately UNHEALTHY). They work to sell you more crap that you don't need, in order to increase their own market share, and their own power.

Obviously I'll vote for neither. My Vote is My Voice.

I've not decided who I'll vote for yet, but it will be for who I think the best man on the ballot is. Primarily I'll be looking for something that's absent from the 2 existing parties. INTEGRITY
 
I respect you views and hope that you respect mine, but I will vote for the Party Platform that I most agree with (Republican for now) and that has a possibility of winning and therefore the possiblilty of emplementing that platform.

A vote on principal is fine but if that pursuit of the perfect hurts the good and aid s the bad I just don't see how that does you principal all that much good.

If you want to register a protest vote do what I have done in the past ANY race in which a candidate the party of my choice is not running I vote Lib which as to my way of thinking is a vote for NONE of the Above. I will not vote for a "perfect" candidate in the gen election that is going to get .002% of the popular vote when the better of the 2 major candidates is far and away the better person.

If you do not like the system we have try and chang the constitution to somting else like a parlamintary system (which is worse to me) but the way the rules are written HERE and NOW a vote by any 'conservative' for any body but the Republicans (I wish they were more like '93 but they have been beeten by a great lier and a press that is at best onesided) is a vote for the EccoFreak and QuasiEastern New ager Gungrabbing goofball Albert Gore. It's just that simple...
 
Hey you libertarians.....lol....Ill get back at ya this evening, Im on my way to work and your points require a good effort on my part.........
Hey Mr. guttsmoke......try fubsy......lol...fubsy.
Ya'll I generally agree with ya'll points on this, but I do believe this is a turning point and what ever we "gun owners", do we had better show a solid front....or we all lose.......c ya this evening....fubsy.
 
Showing a united front is all well and good, but if we back a losing horse, what's the point? Suppose every gun owner over age 18 votes for Bush in the general election, regardless of party affiliation. Do you think he'll say, "Gee, thanks! In return for electing me, I'll repeal all unconstitutional laws?"

Gimme a break. He's more likely to say "Gee, thanks! This year I'll only require registration on all semi-autos."

I do agree that we need to unify, but not on yet another schmuck who only cares about staying in power. We need to support a candidate who not only believes in the Constitution, but is willing to go the mat for us. That isn't Bush, and it damn sure isn't Gore. It's Browne.

I'd suggest that those who sneer at my efforts in this thread read <a href="http://www.HarryBrowne2000.org/text/96/liberty.htm">this.</a> It's Browne's 1996 nomination acceptance speech, and in it he details exactly what's wrong and how he'd fix it. No touchy-feely "for the children" crap, no shying away from the tough questions, and absolutely no compromise on Constitutional issues.

If we can stick together on this, we have a chance to save the US. If we don't... if we split allegiances over political expediency... then we as a country are doomed.

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You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
Instead of trying to divide the gun vote why don't you guys try to divide the democratic vote? Your "principled" stand and willingness to bash the republicans will kill any gun rights you have left because it aids the democrats. What? Are you guys a bunch of subersive anti-gun plants out to spread the seeds of discontent within the gun community thus dividing their vote and dooming our gun rights??? If you succeed in getting every single pro-gun voter to go with a third party you will still not have enough votes to beat the democrats. Thus your insistence we all go third party is destructive to our gun rights. You could potentially do more damage to our gun rights by suggesting everyone go third party than any anti-gunner could hope for. Have you ever heard the term "USEFULL FOOLS"? Usefull for whom? Second amendment proponents or anti gunners? Get a clue here, guys. You are potentially a bigger enemy to our gun rights than the anti gunners with your insistence we go third party. You should be convincing democrats to go third party so it splits their vote and causes them to become irrelevant. Do you want gun owners to become irrelevent so the democrats can crap all over our rights? At the least you should be convincing everybody to vote republican so it destroys the democratic party. THEN you can start another political party.
 
Too bad Frank, my vote cancels yours.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Dennis thanks for the thought. Fubsy I hope you answer my question and maybe those who think like you can also answer them. You know I voted for Reagan twice and we lost more rights, I held my nose and voted for Bush ( because I believed like fubsy and others back then) and we lost more rights, Thank goodness I didn't vote for that piece of cow dung in office today but we still lost more rights. Demo---Repub we keep losing rights what is the difference?
 
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