Reports of "Militia Takeover" in Oregon

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Ammon Bundy and his followers will rot in jail while the feds prepare the case against them.

Ship them off to Gitmo.
 
When these guys brought their guns with them and "occupied" a federal facility, they increased the likelihood of a violent outcome. All of these guys did that by themselves. They were not threatened, they were the threat. Talk of an "uprising" is scaling this up even more.

Those that casually mention "uprising" are most likely without a clue what the endgame will be. Anarchy is not a pretty sight, and the fact is, we in this nation have life really good. Amazing how the voices in some peoples' heads can run them off the rails. :rolleyes:
 
The man killed had 11 kids, per the news. Guess he forgot about his priorities.
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Productive comment. He said he was willing to die for his cause and I have to give some respect for following through on that, even if I don't support them.

Those arrested are claiming he had his hands in the air unarmed and was shot in the face. I don't really believe that, or at least that it was that simple, but I am sure many will. I don't find it impossible either. I see why they did not want to interdict at the ranch with news cameras rolling, but this undocumented death may feed the fire, not put it out. Those in the facility have indicated they aren't intimidated and will continue their action. I am willing to bet they will be much more interested in assistance from more radical groups they previously refused, and they will be on high alert just waiting for something to happen. You get enough people on edge like that and something will happen.

Maybe there were body/cruiser cams in use.

At least things have not escalated today.
 
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It's too bad it had to come to this, but I think this is exactly what many of those folks wanted.

I think the Feds waited so long before they did anything to try and avoid this outcome, but realized it just wasn't gonna happen.

While I feel sorry for the dead man and his family, the blame does not lie on the FBI.
 
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The man killed had 11 kids, per the news. Guess he forgot about his priorities.
Productive comment. He said he was willing to die for his cause and I have to give some respect for following through on that, even if I don't support them.

Those arrested are claiming he had his hands in the air unarmed and was shot in the face. I don't really believe that, or at least that it was that simple, but I am sure many will. I don't find it impossible either. I see why they did not want to interdict at the ranch with news cameras rolling, but this undocumented death may feed the fire, not put it out. Those in the facility have indicated they aren't intimidated and will continue their action. I am willing to bet they will be much more interested in assistance from more radical groups they previously refused, and they will be on high alert just waiting for something to happen. You get enough people on edge like that and something will happen.

Maybe there were body/cruiser cams in use.

At least things have not escalated today.
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Whats the downside? Lets assume they get 200 persons with interesting viewpoints to show up. Now they have smoked out 200 potential terrorists who can be watched or dealt with out in the middle of nowhere if they start to get violent.

Let them aggregate and continue to just provide surveillance. They'll go home and can be watched thereafter, or if these potential terrorists get violent they can be arrested without loss of life or harm of bystanders.
 
I'm not buying the hands-up claim, or 120 rounds fired, none of it, and certainly not some execution claim. The cars contained six people, you fire off 120 rounds and one dead, one wounded lightly? With 5 living witnesses? This is the the kind of wacko conspiracy stuff that started this whole thing.

I'll wait for the video.

They deluded themselves into thinking their conspiracy was a blow for freedom, all they accomplished was to set themselves back and destroy their families.
 
I will not jump to any conclusions. Let's all wait for all the facts. I'm sure that someone has video of the confrontation. I for one will be patient.
 
Whats the downside? Lets assume they get 200 persons with interesting viewpoints to show up. Now they have smoked out 200 potential terrorists who can be watched or dealt with out in the middle of nowhere if they start to get violent.
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Well, they might be in Burns Oregon first. I'm also not certain the FBI would be prepared for 200 armed people to show up in different places along the perimiter they have set-up or for one of their checkpoints to be attacked by even one or two SUVs full of people, or for attacks at random field offices, or any of the other things that might happen, even if unlikely.
I said similar before, but, if .01% of the population gets incised by this, that would still be 30,000 people. Waco and Ruby Ridge didn't involve web pages, facebook, twitter, youtube, or even e-mail. This is much less predictable and much less controllable.

I think the 120 rounds fired was given by law enforcement, so I am not sure why you are doubting that. It isn't abnormal to see numbers like that when many police officers are involved. If there were 15 officers that isn't even a magazine each. They could have fired that many rounds in 3-5 seconds
 
I did not hear of the 120 rounds from LEO side, but from elsewhere, if it's official, I stand corrected on that. The 'hands up' claim, seems to come from a relative who was not in Oregon yesterday, so that must be entirely bogus, unless the other arrestees are permitted to keep their cell phones, which they are not.

I am certainly not buying into the 'traffic stop' tale. The FBI knew when they left the Refuge and where they were going, making a stop was escalating the standoff into a confrontation.

They negotiated for nearly 90 days with another standoff. They've done that here for less than a week.

I do, however, want to hear from officials involved just how much the Governor of Oregon and the Paiute Tribe were able to pressure the FBI or the OSP into an armed confrontation, if that did indeed occur. If so, apparently the interests of birdwatchers in Portland and the alleged fate of obscure artifacts are perhaps more important to some than human life. Reading some of the comments posted by readers on mainstream media sites about this certainly seems to indicate that to be the case.
 
I was curious and waited to see if anyone would pickup on the one small tiny issue.

The Paiute is a federally recognized Indian tribe that inhabits southeastern Oregon, southern Idaho, Northern California and Nevada. The Burns Paiute Tribe’s ancestral territory includes the area now managed as the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, about 30 miles south of Burns.
So, it turns out that in 1868 a Treaty was written but Congress never ratified it
but the government guaranteed that it would protect the safety and property of the Northern Paiute people, according to the tribe.
So by this alone,it would appear that the Militia had even less right to occupy the Federal land that actually belonged to an American Indian Tribe.
The Tribal members 100% wanted these interlopers to remove themselves from their Tribal land.

Doc
 
I agree with Jim Page, I'm waiting on video and seeing what both sides have to say. If law enforcement has nothing to hide, video should be forthcoming.
 
This is pure conjecture on my part:
It seems like LE waited until they could arrest the lead horses, and when they had their opportunity they moved. The guy that was killed had a choice--comply with law enforcement or endure the consequences. LE has a right to live and are under lots of scrutiny these days. It will be really surprising to me if this went down like the relatives reported. Sounds to me like the "hands up don't shoot" baloney when Michael Brown was shot as he attacked a cop.

It escapes me what these people thought they were going to accomplish. The public lands are not going to return to the states anytime soon, and certainly not because of an "occupation" by armed self proclaimed militia.
 
Apparently the driver of the other car is saying the individual that was killed crashed into a snow banks then charged the officers. Now, that would be appropriate use of force.
What I can't figure out is how the driver of one of these cars is out free to make youtube videos
 
Also widely reported That there were Probable Cause Arrest Warrants issued on all those arrested in the stop prior to the action being taken.

So it was not a pre textual or any other type of "simple" traffic stop.

It appears to be a well planned service of actual and legal arrest warrants. Planed for a time and place where there was the least risk of harm to the individuals sought, law enforcement involved, or innocent bystanders.

I'm not thrilled in any way that someone lost their life.

The fact that only one did makes extremely suspect any claims of premeditated harm, or 120 rounds flying around.

The sad truth is…. If you're gonna dance, you have to pay the piper.
 
Fox12 has also put up news helicopter footage of some pretty significant emplacements that the occupiers have built. Many are carrying rifles, seems they are wanting a fight. But they then showed one of the protesters with a Mini14 and called it an automatic weapon....
 
Rickyrick, you have a very valid point. Government plant? Very possible. This thing reeks of misinfo. The incident, initially, reminded me of the "sit-ins" of the 60's. Looking at it realistically, the people were in a building that was vacant and not posing a threat to anyone whatsoever. The thing that bothers me is that the occupiers had already spoken with authorities and were seeking a way out. They had also vowed not to shoot unless shot at. They could have sat back and let the thing work its way out, and all would have been well, at least to some degree, but now the authorities have escalated things. The people were on their way to a speaking engagement in another town. Let them pass and bide your time to work out a peaceful solution. Didn't happen. Now, a man is dead and there is no getting away from that. Didn't have to happen. Not much consolation to the family of the dead man. What the man did is irrelevant to me, for the incident did not have to happen. Reminds me in some respects of Ruby Ridge. A 15 year old boy shot and a mother killed through a kitchen window while holding a baby that posed no threat whatsoever to authorities. I just wish that we were simply told the truth about the matter, but I doubt that will ever happen. There will be spin from both sides. I do think there is much more to the thing than we are being led to believe, and the truth will eventually come out if someone cares enough to dig into reality, but I won't hold my breath. I always believed the entire occupation thing was as dumb as a box of rocks, but perhaps, just perhaps, there were some very valid reasons for the scenario. I will patiently sit back and withhold my judgement until more facts come to light, but the truth may never really be told.
 
I also have trouble understanding what "returned to the States" actually means.

I may be way off but I don't recall……...

The Nevada National Guard winning the Mexican War of 1848 or signing the treaty relinquishing sovereignty of what are now New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Nevada and California to the UNITED STATES [read Federal]

Nor do I recall that the States of Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, S & N Dakota's, Wyoming, and Montana… negotiating with Napoleon and putting up the funds for the Louisiana Purchase in 1803.

Can't remember the States of Oregon and Washington and Idaho finalizing the details with Great Britain that brought those territories under the control and ownership of the USA.

Now Texas…. well…. it is Texas after all….. even they pleaded with congress for 3 years before they were admitted as a State.

Not to mention that there were other folks living there before any of us showed up on the continent .
 
These "Public Lands" belong to the
Paiute Indian Tribe which the Federal
Government manages & protects for them
this particular land area in
perpetuity. Again, the Paiute Tribe
Went through BIA to the Feds &
Wanted these people removed
From their lands.
The Feds & Leos. didn't move
Until after the Paiutes complained
& this gave the Feds the right
to step in.
 
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