Release the slide on a 1911

[RickB]

What's best is what you are accustomed to. You mentioned 1911, but do you own other types of semi-auto as well? If so, are the slide stops all in the same location? Chances are the slide is always on top of the frame ...

Most shooters in competition use the slide stop as a slide release, even adding slide stops with elongated paddles to facilitate this. When I entered competitions, I did it as practice for the event I hoped I would never encounter. I always release the slide by the slingshot method, because I'm fairly certain that under stress I won't slip up and miss the entire slide.

That's where I am, too.
I'm sure I put more rounds downrange through 1911s than all other guns combined, and I have practiced different techniques to release the slide with the slide release, but I shoot some other guns - Hi-Power, P938 - and have just decided to go with the universal technique of racking the slide whenever I want a round in the chamber, or out of the chamber.

If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun. That's business-as-usual for a Glock, but the slide should stay locked open on a 1911.

 

[Charlie98]

If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun.

I just reread that post... ^^^ +1 for a 1911.

OP, all metal parts wear, so I guess the answer to your basic question is 'Yes, slingshotting the slide will reduce wear on the slide stop.' The slide stop is a wear part, just like pretty much everything else in the pistol that is mated metal-to-metal; I suppose the only difference is you don't lube the slide stop, but the bearing surface is quite small, and, in any event, it's a $50 part. I think you are splitting hairs about wear on a minor component, it's likely the wear to the slide stop pin pivoting the barrel link will see more wear than the slide stop mating surface.

I have a forum friend (on another forum,) he has a Kimber 1911 he carried as a service pistol and has a claimed 80,000 rounds through it; if memory serves, he has not replaced any parts on it besides grip panels.

 

[tipoc]

The reason I asked the guestion was for undo wear on parts . I'm a benchrest shooter and with reloading you can cause undo wear , when sizing a rifle case to zero headspace dimension can cause wear on locking bolt lugs . As a shooter you want to keep wear down as little as possible in your firearm , so by using the slide release lever even though you can and maybe designed to do so , is it less wear to use the slingshot method then lowering the lever by hand. Yes or No what do you think.

The question of "undue wear" was addressed by 44amp. It is not undue wear.

The slide stop on a 1911 has a convenient ridge built on it for the thumb or finger to be placed to release it. This can be used to both drop the slide or to dis-assemble the pistol. It was originally checkered but it more often serrated these days. It's meant to be used and often.

If we were to track two (or 100) identical 1911s which were only either slingshot or released by the slide stop through 40,000 rounds what would we see? I don't know and does it matter? No, it don't matter, because how the shooter used the gun would likely have a greater impact than how they released the slide.

A benchrest rifle shooter knows that their weapon is a special purpose built firearm. It is neither a military rifle or a hunting rifle. Not so the general purpose 1911, which was designed as a service sidearm. We know the 1911 platform can also be built to be an outstanding precision handgun for competitive target work. In the latter case with these guns I would use special handling and not just with the slide stop.

I'll just say about your example with the benchrest rifle and zero headspace. No one on any rifle should use, more accurately aim for "zero headspace". I understand what you're saying but in no rifle, benchrest or rattler, should one aim for that. Benchrest rifles have a much shorter active life before barrel change than any 1911. Depending on caliber of course.

tipoc

 

[T. O'Heir]

Releasing the slide stop lever by lowering the lever with the thumb is how the thing was designed to be used. However, sling shotting the slide or using the slide release won't make a lick of difference to anything.

 

[Rangerrich99]

If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun.

Not to argue, but every 1911 I've ever owned has functioned that way. For that matter, it's worked consistently with my S&W 4003, SIG P229, Beretta PX4, Glock 19, as well as several others. In fact, the only full-size semi-auto I own that it doesn't work with is my S&W M&P9 2.0. To be clear, I am referring to using a fully loaded magazine, not an empty one.

Of course, I've only owned about a dozen 1911s, and a little more than a dozen other semis, so we're not talking a large sample size.

But according to your statement, every semi-auto I've ever owned has been defective, which just from a probability standpoint, is highly unlikely. I'm probably more likely to have been hit by lightning.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun.

Not to argue, but every 1911 I've ever owned has functioned that way. For that matter, it's worked consistently with my S&W 4003, SIG P229, Beretta PX4, Glock 19, as well as several others. In fact, the only full-size semi-auto I own that it doesn't work with is my S&W M&P9 2.0. To be clear, I am referring to using a fully loaded magazine, not an empty one.

Of course, I've only owned about a dozen 1911s, and a little more than a dozen other semis, so we're not talking a large sample size.

I'm going to have to go with RickB on this one. I, too, only have my own pistols as a sample set, and that's perhaps a dozen and a half over the past twenty years. Not one "auto closes" the slide when a magazine is slammed home, and it shouldn't do that. RickB is correct -- if the gun does that, it's defective.

 

[Rangerrich99]

I'm going to have to go with RickB on this one. I, too, only have my own pistols as a sample set, and that's perhaps a dozen and a half over the past twenty years. Not one "auto closes" the slide when a magazine is slammed home, and it shouldn't do that. RickB is correct -- if the gun does that, it's defective.

So I have a little over 20 defective guns. Good to know.

 

[Sharkbite]

In fact, the only full-size semi-auto I own that it doesn't work with is my S&W M&P9 2.0

It was common for the 1.0 M&P’s to let the slide slam closed if the mag was inserted “briskly”. The Colorado State patrol identified this issue early and chose to ignore it. The slide only closes after the mag is fully inserted...so its kind of a freebe.

Dont plan on it, but if it happens, go with it.

The 2.0 guns are specifically redesigned to NOT do it.

 

[briandg]

Springs, including coil springs, are rated is terms of force/energy per unit of length. The only exception is variable rate springs, which are available for the 1911 but far less common than fixed rate springs.

http://brlcad.org/design/drafting/M1911-A1_REDUX.pdf
Scroll through to page 12 of 59. Note the spring rate: 2.88 LB/INCH. That's a linear rate, not exponential.

Then notice the two reference lengths and strengths listed. At free length, the compressed energy is zero. Compressing to a length of 3.72" is a delta of 2.83". Multiply that by 2.88 and we get 8.1504 pounds. Right on the money. Compress it again, to 1.81 ", and there's a delta of 1.91". Multiply 1.91 times 2.88 and you get 5.5008.

5.5008 + 8.1504 = 13.6512. Again, right on the money. The specified rating at full compression is 13.55 +/- .60.

Maybe I'm not understandin everything that you just put out there, but let me explain the facts as I see them.

If I use a scale that operates on coil springs, I can put a one pound weight on and it compresses the spring the distance that one pound will compress it. Two pounds compresses it more, ten, twenty, fifty, until that spring is fully compressed ring to ring, and it has stored up every bit of energy that it can. then it releases all of the energy when the weight has been removed.

So, simply put, if that coil spring on the slide is pushed back a tiny bit further, a bit more energy is exerted, and hence, that energy is stored in the spring. Then that energy is released and used to shove the slide forward.

As it is compressed, the first pound, for example, compresses the spring a certain distance. As the weight adds up, the spring is compressed a little less with every ounce of weight until it reaches max compression, ring to ring. It's called stacking, i think, and if that doesn't represent a curve, X and Y axis measuring distance of compression and weight or force applied on the other axis, I don't know what it would be called.

I always noted that when I was shooting a bow, the first inch of draw was kinda easy, just a single finger did it. then the last inch or took my whole hand and all of the strength in my shoulder and biceps. again, that seems to denote a curve.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Maybe I'm not understandin everything that you just put out there, but let me explain the facts as I see them.

If I use a scale that operates on coil springs, I can put a one pound weight on and it compresses the spring the distance that one pound will compress it. Two pounds compresses it more, ten, twenty, fifty, until that spring is fully compressed ring to ring, and it has stored up every bit of energy that it can. then it releases all of the energy when the weight has been removed.

So, simply put, if that coil spring on the slide is pushed back a tiny bit further, a bit more energy is exerted, and hence, that energy is stored in the spring. Then that energy is released and used to shove the slide forward.

As it is compressed, the first pound, for example, compresses the spring a certain distance. As the weight adds up, the spring is compressed a little less with every ounce of weight until it reaches max compression, ring to ring. It's called stacking, i think, and if that doesn't represent a curve, X and Y axis measuring distance of compression and weight or force applied on the other axis, I don't know what it would be called.

I always noted that when I was shooting a bow, the first inch of draw was kinda easy, just a single finger did it. then the last inch or took my whole hand and all of the strength in my shoulder and biceps. again, that seems to denote a curve.

Correct, you are not understanding it correctly.

Your description is correct, but the conclusion you reached that it's a curve (meaning exponential increase) is not correct. If it starts out at zero pounds uncompressed, and has a rating of only 8 pounds when the slide is closed but 14 pounds when the slide is retracted, obviously your hand has to work harder toward the end of the pull than at the beginning.

Here's how it looks graphed -- you can see it's a straight line, not a curve. So it's a linear increase, not exponential (which would be a curve that gets steeper toward the right). Note that the spring's "rate" (not to be confused with "rating," which refers to the amount of energy when the spring is fully compressed to its working length) is expressed as 2.88 pounds per inch. That alone tells you that it's a linear (constant) relationship. For each inch you compress the spring, you store 2.88 pounds more energy.

 

[Charlie98]

Of course, I've only owned about a dozen 1911s, and a little more than a dozen other semis, so we're not talking a large sample size.

But according to your statement, every semi-auto I've ever owned has been defective, which just from a probability standpoint, is highly unlikely. I'm probably more likely to have been hit by lightning.

If you think about how the slide stop is designed, and designed to operate, in a 1911, you will understand how dumb that statement is. I've jammed many a magazine home on my 1911's, not one has dropped the slide. I'm glad you are in Phoenix... so I don't have the chance to get struck by lightning...

 

[44 AMP]

If we accept the odds that ALL your pistols (save one?) aren't "defective" then that only leaves you. You must be doing something the rest of us aren't. OR you're hitting the slide stop without realizing it.

Which, seems a bit more likely than the fact that you are slamming a loaded mag into the gun hard enough to jar it loose from inertia alone.

Could it be possible that when you slam a fresh mag home, your grip shifts enough to bump the slide stop without you realizing it?

 

[stagpanther]

I'm new to 1911's so all I can do is interpret what my colt manual says; I'm pretty sure it says not to slam a magazine home. Mine is a double spring short guide-rod design--so it "worms into a squiggle" under compression--I doubt it has a straight linear compression force--but I'm not a fizzics guy.

 

[rodfac]

If we accept the odds that ALL your pistols (save one?) aren't "defective" then that only leaves you. You must be doing something the rest of us aren't. OR you're hitting the slide stop without realizing it.

Yep...that's my take on his technique as well. I've owned a dozen, maybe more 1911's (Colts, a WWll Remington-Rand, three Rugers, and a Sig), and none of them will release the slide by ramming home a loaded magazine. And BTW, that includes two 9mm's, and a pair of .38 Supers as well as the more common .45 ACPs. Rod

 

[Wyosmith]

I use the slide lock. I was trained to do that in the early 70s in the USMC. Pulling and releasing the slide is a 2nd way to do it and it's just fine, but it requires 2 hands, whereas the use of the slide lock needs only the right hand. Train with both, but do most of the training with the slide lock. If and when, for what ever reason you need to use the 2 hand method, you'll do it quick and it will be easy.
Most "experts" over think this, and try to get you to do it too, because the simple way that has worked for 100 years is not something people think is a valuable "skill" that they will pay money for. It's just marketing. We see it in "new math" liberalism in school curriculum and the "green movement" in schools, all of which is based in junk-science and runs from poor theory to outright lies, but if it's "new" people pay money for it.

Needed to come up with "advanced techniques" is what most teachers try to sell, be it in public schools, collages and even gun-training, but the real truth is that if you are doing anything but basics in shooting you are doing it wrong.
There are no good "advanced techniques" for shooting. There are lots of them for fighting, and those all involve movement and communications so as to come up with a winning strategy for a fight in short order and "on the fly". So there are many skills that can be taught and learned about fighting, but if the shooting part is being taught in some "new way" it's most likely wrong or semi-complete.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I slap the cylinder closed with authority.


The only semi-auto I own where I don't slingshot the slide to release it on a fresh magazine is my P7PSP.

With that one I squeeze the action cocker, which drops the slide and chambers a fresh round.

 

[RickB]

So I have a little over 20 defective guns. Good to know.

I have a 1918 Colt, a '42 Colt, various stock and custom pistols from Colt, Springfield, Caspian, Auto Ordnance, Detonics, and none of them drop the slide during a reload.
If yours do, and you've trained for them to always do so, that's great.
I've seen some Glocks drop the slide prematurely and not pick up a round, so I would never trust that the gun is going to load itself under those conditions.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm new to 1911's so all I can do is interpret what my colt manual says; I'm pretty sure it says not to slam a magazine home and also to "ride" the slide with your hand as opposed to letting it drop free or sling shot.

The Colt manual does not say to "ride" the slide closed. Just the opposite. Look at page 25 of your Colt manual:

IMPORTANT: Do not strike base of magazine to drive it home--just push it firmly into pistol. Otherwise, you could damage magazine and injure your hand.

5. When you are ready to shoot, grip the slide as described in Step 3 and pull it fully rearward to cock the hammer. Release slide to feed a round from the magazine into the chamber. THE PISTOL IS NOW LOADED, COCKED AND READY TO FIRE.

 

[stagpanther]

That's correct Aquila--my bad--though I was half right for the "do not slam" the mag home. These 1911's are new to me (though yeah, logically you would probably never ride any slide).

 

[stagpanther]

Just for that--I'm going to have to whip up some cartridges for my colt 1911 and go do some shooting.