recoil comparisons

This is interesting reading. We have a bolt action .308 and I don't like it much. At best, the recoil is a huge push which tends to knock the rifle off the bag and totally disrupt my sight picture. If I slip up at all with my technique or just get tired, the rifle will kick and slap me in the shoulder. After just 5 or so shots, my shoulder will kind of go numb from being slapped so hard. I also tend to flinch when I start getting tired because the recoil hurts.

It's a Remington 700. My dad fires it fine and my 12 year old brother fires it fine. But I just don't like it. I am really small and don't have much upper body strength at all. I have to wonder if changing that wouldn't affect the recoil.

As it is, I'm considering a 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel. I doubt I'm ever going to shoot past 500 yards.
 
Last week I shot 20 rds from my .270 and 20rds from my .30-06 and I wasn't sore at all. But a few months ago I shot a 7mm magnum and after 4 shots I was done. BTW all 3 riflesare you typical run of the mill bolt action hunting rifles. Hope this was what you were talking about
Click to expand...

See totally subjective.

My 7mm mag weighs less than all 4 of my 30-06's, but doesn't kick any worse( Perceived ) than my SKS. The gun just fits me very well.


Boomer
 
I bought a 45-70 a month or so go. The first trip to the range was a blast in more than one way! After 10 rounds I was done, and had a bruise the next day.

I got a Limbsaver slip-on, and now its a pleasure to shoot. The sharp blast is now a good shove. I'm looking forward to a range trip tomorrow.
 
I believe recoil is related to how well a stock is fit to a person. Im a large man 6'6" and about 275-300 lbs depending on the time of year. I shot mainly a .300 win mag but the stock is a full custom that was measured and cut just for me. It weights about 13 lbs with scope and bi pod. It kicks less then my old marlin lever 30-30 in my mind. However when my brother in law shot it he had a bruise for about a week after three shots. And from my personal experience a .50 BMG kicks about like a light weight 308. I was stupid and shot my savage .338 lapua mag once without the muzzle break just to see and that one walloped me. With the break on its about like a 243 imo. I agree with Brian on the flinching part however. My brother in law was in the military, Marines then Navy, and he fired alot of weapons. He is a decent shot as well. He bought a .300 win mag right after he retired from the navy because thats what I shoot and he wanted one. He bought one in a savage with a synthetic stock on it. Thing weights about 6 lbs with a scope on it. He has since developed a flinch from shooting it. He now flinches even with a .22 lr. I had to record him with my phone to prove to him he was flinching.
 
In the order that I prefer firing them for more than a few rounds:

.38-55 Winchester model 94 (docile with factory loads)
.30-06 Remington 742 carbine
.308 Winchester model 100

I'm thinking of retiring the latter two in favor of a nice bolt action 7mm-08. My experience with a friend's Tikka T3 has been very pleasant and they can be made to shoot flat WAY down range if that bug ever bites me.

Best,
 
I didn't see something mentioned in earlier posts, so I'll do that here.

Stock design has a major influence on the amount of "felt" recoil. Stocks whose buttplate center being on the bore axis move mostly backwards in recoil and not too much up at their cheek piece. They don't seem to "kick" very much, even with big bore cartridges.

Weatherby's first stocks were purposly built to have their scoped rifles put the optic's axis directly in line with an erect standing shooter's aiming eye. To do this, the butt plate had to be well below the bore (recoil) axis and its high cheek piece made a comfortable rest for ones cheek checking out their fit in the local gunshop. Out on the range shooting one, the buyer quickly learned the cheek piece came abruptly up hard onto their face as soon as the bullet left the barrel.

The one and only .470 Nitro Express cartridge I shot was used in a Rigby double's left barrel. It didn't seem to abruptly kick all that hard when its 500-gr. bullet fired. But it gave a very strong and quick push backwards on my entire upper body with a lot more disruption to my psyche than shooting a standard factory .300 Wby Mag half an hour earlier.
 
I’ve tried asking this question about recoil before, and there is no real answer. It’s totally personal as to how recoil affects any one person. My story;

My father bought me a 30-06 when I was 15. I remember using his padded shooting jacket when I was out at the range. When I was in my 20's or early 30's, it got put away cause I didn’t like the recoil. I didn’t shoot it for nearly 30 years or so. At the age of 67, I put a few rounds thru it this summer. My first thought was “heck, this recoil isn’t anywhere near as bad as I remembered", plus I shot a half inch group at 50 yards with iron sights. I can’t do that with any other rifle I own. Granted, 10 rounds was as much as I wanted to shoot in one sitting, but I took it out again and put a few rounds thru it. I’ve since acquired a couple of Mosin Nagants. 7.62x54R. Those things kick. My favorite to shoot is the M38 carbine version. 15 to 20 rounds is about when my shoulder starts to get sore. I hate shooting shotguns. I’d rather shoot the 30-06.

I’m just about to buy a .308 without ever shooting one, and I know there is no way I will ever be able to get an idea what the recoil will feel like without actually shooting one. One person told me they don’t kick anywhere near as hard as the Mosin Nagant. While that’s reassuring, I’ll still never know what a .308 feels like till I actually shoot one.
 
I usually shoot a 7X57, but

then I found a Win M70 Classic Featherweight in a left handed action, and they had it only in 270 WSM. So I bought it.

The difference in recoil between 7X57 and 270 WSM recoil is like night and day.

Shooting 139 gr 7X57 factory loads @ about 2660 fps vs. 130 gr 270 WSM loads @ 3250 fps. It's like going from a Daisy Red Ryder to a 50 BMG!

Still, I don't flinch with the 270 WSM. I just feel a sharp jab to my shoulder.

Been thinking about reloading it down to "normal" 270 Win velocities for hunting Texas deer (80 pound does, 110 pound bucks). It's such a pretty rifle - real classy looks, IMO. Glad I bought it.

As for the 7X57, I developed some handloads for it that chronograph @ 2,950 fps. (Don't try this at home!) Creates more recoil than factory loads, but not much. Also, factory loads using 175 gr RN in the 7X57 makes for increased recoil, but still not in the same ballpark as the 270 WSM.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the standard versus short mag is recoil velocity. Last year, I went on a range session with a friend. He brought his 7mmWSM Walmart Winnie and I brought my 7mmRM Winnie Classic and 280 Ruger Hawkeye. His rifle was 7.5# with scope and my 7mm was 8.2# with scope. I've been shooting for 40 years, mostly 2.5" standard and magnum rounds, and was surprised by the speed of the recoil from the WSM at the bench. My friend flinched badly with the WSM, but shot my 7 and 280 reloads without complaint. The WSM had 140 Win BTips and mine were 140 BTips in the 280 and 154 Hornadys in the 7mmRM. Velocity was 2900(22") and 3000(24"), respectively.
 
I think the shape of the stock and rifle wt. with these two calibers is the determining factor to felt recoil since they are both so close. I have both in similar rifles and a M-70 Lightweight in 308. That 308 is much worse than either my 270 or 06 sporter.
 
Speaking of Model 70 "Featherweight" rifles. I remember long ago, there were 3 of us at the range for a sight-in session, and one of the guys had a Model 70 Featherweight in '06. I remember him setting up on the rest with this look on his face where "fun" was nowhere to be seen. He shot the rifle only two, maybe three times, but I'll never forget that even I could feel the recoil of that rifle just watching him.

I have no idea of whatever he did with the rifle, as I haven't seen the fellow for many years. But it was a firearm that he truly didn't need to own if he wanted something to shoot and ENJOY on any regular basis. No fun gun for sure right there. And no, I didn't want to take a shot with that one either...

I suppose if one was hunting where weight really was a factor on a hunt which likely including backpacking in somewhere, and one was a practiced rifleman enough to handle such a firearm, that would be one thing. But to just shoot a few rounds before hunting season each year, and then putting the rifle away until the following year, would be quite another. "Flinch factor" isn't even the right concept to discuss what my friend went through that day on the bench. I believe he'd have to go back to the Red Ryder days to re-learn anything relative to shooting basics after those "Featherweight" sight-in sessions. And as a parting shot here, I can't comment on his success in the field with the rifle, as I never had that discussion with him.

reinert
 
I don't agree with Chuck Hawks Chart as far as the difference between a 7-30 Waters and the 30-30. The 7-30 carbine I had would give you a very sharp kick that seemed more than my almost identical M-94 30-30.
 
A Winchester FWT will weigh about 8 lbs with typical scopes on them. That is about the same as every other standard weight rifle made by Remigton, Ruger etc. It is a featherweight in name only. By 1950's standards it was a few oz lighter than standard rifles. By 2013 standards it is a standard weight rifle. There are MANY options out there for rifles that weigh far less than the Featherweight.

Most recoil is between the ears of shooters. Tell someone a gun is a "featherweight" and it will kick harder and they believe it. And they will believe it will kick harder.

Put the word "magnum" in any rifles name and some guys practically wet their pants in anticipation of recoil, yet they shoot shotguns and other non-magnum rounds that have far more recoil with no problems.
 
Yes, stock fit to the individual makes a big difference in perceived recoil. A friends Winchester model 70 300 win mag with boss had more felt recoil to me than a Ruger 77 in 338. The Ruger has never seemed uncomfortable to me. Others dont like them. Some stock designs also just arent as shooter friendly as others also. Older stocks tended to have more drop with a rise in the comb which tends to give the feeling like you were punched in the cheek.

Something not mentioned, and that I think makes a huge difference, is how people shoot off a bench. Most shooters are leaning way into the gun, and hunched over to some degree. If you get the rest high enough that your back is vertical it helps tremendously. The average "leaning into it" position from a bench is about as bad as you can possibly get as far as recoil mitigation. Change your postition, it really does help. Shooting from a standing rest helps also, so your rest lets you stand straight up for the most part, as does shooting from kneeling or sitting positions. I only shoot from a bench or rest to check zero, and avoid it otherwise.

Stocking a rifle more like a shotgun can help. The comb angle, stock drop, and length closer to correct for the individual are all part of that. Another aspect of that is when I have pads put on rifles, I have about 1/8" neutral cant to the toe (toe being about 1/8" forward of the heel when a square is laid across the comb). It tends to help keep the muzzle rise down a bit. It's also quicker handling from what I can tell.
 
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I've got 3 M-70's, an XTR Sporter, XTR Sporter Varmint, a M-77Mk 1 in 6mm, a 110E Savage in 223 and the M-70 Lightweight. The Lightweight is considerably lighter than any of these others.
 
Good stuff

This has been a very comprehensive thread.
The question can only be answered anecdotally since - aside from actual recoil calculations - "felt" recoil is wildly subjective.
I was happy to see a reference to recoil velocity....my own "glad I had the safety glasses on " experience was with a firearm and cartridge that did not have a particularly large calculated recoil (about 26 ft.lbs) but a recoil velocity about 20% quicker than my .30-06. I could not get away from that scope. I had to go to a Scout mounting.
Another element to dealing with or tolerating recoil is experience. The more one uses heavier recoiling guns, the more one is able to tolerate "lesser" guns.
And then, there is how a shooter holds whatever gun is being used.....take any rifle chambered for just about any modern (and some not so modern) CF cartridge and hold it wrong, it will bite you.
Pete
 
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