recoil comparisons

R

reinert

New member
Forum Folks,

I'm sure this has been discussed on the forum before, probably many times. But just because we, all as shooters, deal with it, how does recoil compare with some of the newer short mags as compared with the venerable '06 or the 270?

A discussion with a fellow shooter has prompted this Q and A. He's got a .270 and swears by it, and I have my '06 which I wouldn't trade for anything. I've read from time to time that the '06 is about at the peak tolerable rate for the average shooter in the recoil department, and though I've never shot a .270, or any of the short mags for that matter, I wondered about comparable recoil on them. I know both of those short mag calibers are available in .308 and .270, so how do they compare on the shoulder as compared to the '06?

I also know that recoil is different for each shooter to some degree, i.e., build of shooter, technique, stock configuration of a particular rifle and etc. I'd sure appreciate some comments on the shoulder issue of aforementioned calibers.

Thanks for considering a comment,

reinert
 
Brian,

Thanks for the heads-up on the info. I figured there had to be tables for such questions. Still, comments from real shoulders... Ha!

reinert
 
I'm 6'2" and weigh 165 lbs. I'm not a big guy and my shoulders aren't exactly "thick" I own both .270 and .30-06 rifles. I've been shooting since I was 12 I'm now 28. In a shooting range type scenario the .270 is about all the recoil I can take with zero flinch shot after shot. My particular .30-06 rifle is heavier and it seems to kick less.

Last week I shot 20 rds from my .270 and 20rds from my .30-06 and I wasn't sore at all. But a few months ago I shot a 7mm magnum and after 4 shots I was done. BTW all 3 rifles are you typical run of the mill bolt action hunting rifles. Hope this was what you were talking about
 
http://www.youtube.com/embed/CLxMlL333_Y?autoplay=1

Recoil is relative. I don't think my 45-70 shooting 525 gr rounds at 1400+ fps is all that bad. Kinda like a solid shove. My dad shot it once and said never again. He shoots a 30-06, which to me has a sharper harsher kick and I don't like shooting it. He says it's not bad. It's all relative.

My dad is about 5'-8" and a solid 250, I'm 5'-10" and about 165.
 
.30-06 is well beyond my own personal recoil "threshold".

My threshold is enjoyability, not "Can I take it".

I was forced to hunt deer exclusively with slug guns for the first 20 years or so of my experience. I despise recoil.

If I never shot another 12ga slug I could die a happy man.

Most folks severely overestimate their ability to manage recoil and shoot accurately. If you ever get the chance when you're out shooting, hand someone an empty shotgun (or .30-06 or .300Win Mag, etc.) and tell them it's loaded. Have them try shooting this "new slug" that you like. Most folks will jump like they got hit by lightning when the gun says "CLICK!"

Personally, anything more than a .243Win in a typical weight (7-8lb) rifle starts to get old after a couple dozen shots. Anything more than a 7mm-08 or so in a typical rifle is more than I really want to shoot at all.
 
Lucky for me, there is absolutely no recoil if I'm shooting at game. Targets are different. Lately I've spent most of my shooting time behind my 223, the 220 and the 260. Not much recoil there. But some friends came over and I dragged out the Sako 270 and the Ultralight 308. Ouch. And my Dad's Ruger Ultralight 270 with full power loads will cause me some pain. I really don't like shooting it more than about 10 times or so.
 
I agree that recoil is not noticed when shooting at game. Unfortunately, a great many folks flinch by habit because they've been practicing it, even when shooting guns that wouldn't cause the flinch.
 
Alot depends on the stock to if you have a good stock with a good recoil pad you could probably handle most anything.on the other hand if you have a metal but plate you will most likely be in pain..i have a limb saver on my 12 gauge and can shoot slugs no problem take ot off though and i can feel it.
 
Thanks for the great responses fellers. I have to chuckle a bit on semi's 45/70 comment, as I have one too. I was out to the range, and this was a few years ago, with my 45/70 Sharps. I was using a Postell bullet that particular time which weighs 530 grns., and my charge was 68 grns. of BP. A hunting acquaintance was out there too, and asked if he could shoot the Sharps. "Sure", I said.

He took the shot off the bench rest and he got the most awful grimace on his face and said, "This thing kicks worse than my .338 mag. does!" "REALLY?" I couldn't help but comment that way, having not ever taken a shot with a .338. I heard enough stories by folks who had shot them to realize that maybe I don't need to. But shoot, my Sharps kicks worse, according to my buddy on the bench that day, so I guess I've got that knowledge now...Ha! Personally, my '06 is a bit more noticeable on the shoulder than my Sharps. And again, it's just the human factor playing in on the shoulder experience here.

I also have a 45/90 Sharps, and that one does "buck" more than my '06, but I dearly love shooting that one too. It has a straighter stock than my 45/70, so that does make a difference what the shoulder feels. So many variables to consider and how the shoulder handles it. Forgot to mention, too, that I DO use a recoil shield when shooting the 45/90. That's another factor that fits into the equation, too. Mine's a Rand Elite; works very well.

And absolutely, when shooting at game, there's no felt recoil at all on my shoulder. That's a good thing.

Enjoying this thread, thanks folks,

reinert
 
I think if you expect something to kick it will. If you don't snug the stock up to your shoulder it will kick the snot out of you. I shot my first 12 gauge with no recoil pad at 11. I didn't notice any kick. I started shooting 30-06's with steel butt plates at 12. A 30-06 with no pad to me still doesn't have much recoil. None of my shotguns have recoil pads and only a couple of rifles do and they only have them because they came that way. I'm pretty hefty now but I doubt I weighed 100 pounds when I was 11 and 12.
 
Recoil is so much more than tables, and charts. A lot of recoil has to do with stock design and fit of the rifle to the shooter. Most people can tolerate a lot more recoil shooting off hand, sitting, or kneeling with a good fitting rifle than they can from a bench or prone.

Recoil tolerance can be learned as well, I remember the first time I touched off my .375 Ruger. :eek: I couldn't handle more than three or four shots. I still can't tolerate a lot but I could probably shoot 12-15 shots from the bench doing load development for a new bullet before my ability to hold consistent groups would degrade. However after learning to tolerate my .375 Ruger, it sure makes pushing heavy loads down the barrels of my .338-06 and .35 Whelen more enjoyable.

I've even shot the .458 Lott and .416 Rigby off hand and while it is stout recoil it is manageable. Though you won't see me getting down behind one on the bench anytime soon to work up nice little shot groups. I was able to print a 3" shot group at 100 yards with my buddies Rigby and open sights and I figure that is as accurate as I will ever need to be with that rifle, with his Lott I did a little better with since it had a 3X scope on it.
 
Recoil is still an individual thing

I agree with Brian and TaylorForce both.

Everyone has a level of tolerance for recoil that is individual. Has to do with many things, including natural irritability, pain tolerance, and probably some brain hard wiring. The Hawks article ascribes a maximum level of tolerance for recoil which may or may not apply to any of us. However, having observed some shooters at the range with big magnums making groups that resembled shot gun patterns, it is likely that tolerance is over estimated by many shooters because of the machismo factor involved.

I am like Brain---ain't got no machismo, and hate muzzle blast and recoil. A .270 winny can make me flinch after a few rounds off the bench. Tried shooting prairie dogs with a couple of them, and gave it up, since the flinch would dog me for a week after shooting 20-30 rounds of 270. The favorite gun in the safe is a 25-06. According to recoil calculators recoil of my .270 with 130 gr. bullet at 3060 ft./sec is 16.3 ft. lbs. The 25-06 with a 100 gr. bullet at 3300 ft./sec is 14.2 ft. lb. Maybe it is all in my head, or maybe the stock on the 25-06 fits better. :confused:

Shooting off the bench makes recoil worse. Recoil while shooting off hand from the standing position of off of a knee is felt less.
 
Well, I agree with Brian on the slug guns. My "Ohio" gun is a Rem 870, and it's just plain nasty with KO slugs. On the other hand, I regularly shoot (taking it to the range today) a .338 Win Mag. It gets my attention, but I have hundreds of rounds through it and do pretty well. I'll take it any time over that 870. Now, there are folks that shoot a lot heavier rounds than that. Just reading about the .338 Allen Magnum. Youza! I suppose people put muzzle brakes on those things, but it shows how different our perspectives can be. And, FWIW, I'll be packing a 6.5x55 in PA this season.
 
Not much difference. If you're looking for performance with less recoil, skip the 270 and go to the 25/06. One of my favorite rounds for deer/coyote. Half (subjectively) the recoil of a 30/06 with 400 yard capability.
 
Oh yeah, muzzle breaks. Since I've never owned, or shot, a rifle with a break on it, I forgot to even consider that in the recoil dept. Since, If I remember right, that a MB does work quite well, it generates a fair amount of boost in the muzzle blast area.(?) I believe I read that a .50 BMG sniper rifle's recoil is cut back to about that of a 300 win mag (never shot a .300 WM, nor a .50 BMG either, nope). That's amazing. I don't know if it's still offered or not, but didn't Browning offer their A-bolt rifle with a vibration dampener/muzzle break model some years ago? If I remember correctly, the vibration adjustment feature supposedly could enhance accuracy. Been a while since I've seen that feature offered on a rifle. Anyone out there have a muzzle-break on their '06? How's that compare on the shoulder?

A .50 BMG rifle. Can't imagine what that would be on the shoulder without a cut in recoil. I remember a youtube video I saw that featured a bunch of guys shooting the .577 T-Rex. Holy broken shoulder, Batman! Whew!

reinert
 
Muzzle brakes certainly reduce recoil dramatically. At least the good ones do but, yes, they also dramatically increase muzzle blast often more to folks to the left and right of the shooter more than (or as much as) the shooter themselves. An unacceptable trade-off IMO.

Better to get a lower recoil gun to do the same job.

There's hardly an animal in North America that can't be effectively hunted with a .243, fewer yet with 7mm-08. You're looking at like 1/3 and 2/3 the recoil of a .30-06.
 
Brian said it well...I've got a 270, shot my FIL's '06 many times, and BIL's 7mag many times. I notice my self flinching very quickly with the 7mag, not quite as quick with the '06 (loaded with 165 pills), and I can shoot the 270 (with 140 grainers) for a good 20 rounds at the range before I catch myself flinching.

Now the rest of the story, I was given a bunch of 7-08 reloading stuff. I decided to get a decent gun as I have boys that will be hunting with me in about 5 years and it would be better for them. I got my mulie with it this year, and honestly it's a dream to shoot and is close enough to the 270 that the difference isn't worth arguing about. It's one that I think I could shoot 50+ without getting "worn down" with it. Aside from my 22s my 22-250 is the only other I can shoot as much.

The 7-08 and any of the first 3 I mentioned are good enough for anything I'll ever hunt.
 
Good thread thus far!!

I started out with the 30-06. Savage bolt action, wood stock, and yes, I put a muzzle brake on it some years after I had it.
Loved that rifle!!

Alas she is gone now..

I now have a Savage 111 in 7mm Rem mag. Came with bipod, and scope for $300. :cool:

First box of ammo I got for it, Remington 140gr. I shot 10 rounds through, to "sight in" and get adjusted to it. No biggie I'm thinking...

2nd box of ammo Federal Premium with 165gr. Sierra Gamekings.
Holy krikies!!!! Knocked my shoulder for a loop!!! :eek:

After I got home, I looked at the Remington box and discovered it was a box of "managed recoil". :rolleyes:

Looking forwards to "rolling my own"... :D
 
I know both of those short mag calibers are available in .308 and .270, so how do they compare on the shoulder as compared to the '06?
Click to expand...


I own 308, 30-06, and 300 WSM. With the loads I use and using the link provided by Brian earlier I have calculated the recoil.

308/165 @ 2760 fps from 7.5 lb rifle 17 ft lbs recoil
Same load, but from 6 lb Kimber 21 ft lbs recoil
30-06/165 @ 2900 fps from 7.5 lb rifle 21 ft lbs recoil
300 WSM/165 @ 3130 fps from 8 lb rifle 24 ft lbs. recoil

Just for comparison a 300 WM will recoil quite a bit more, for only a slight increase in speed because it requires much more powder to do it.

300 WM/165 @ 3230 fps from 8 lb rifle 30 ft lbs recoil

I really like my 300 WSM and have all but retired my 30-06 rifles since getting it. My 308's give me about 96% of my 30-06 speeds, but with 75% of the recoil. Or I can carry a 308 that is 20% lighter and get the same recoil.

The 300 WSM beats 30-06 by 350 fps, but with only a slight, (12%) increase in recoil, especially compared from the recoil I'd get from a standard 300 mag.

If anyone can tolerate 30-06 recoil, they can easily adapt to the 300 WSM. Full power 300 WM loads are a much bigger step up. The WSM's can't quite match conventional 300 mag loads for speed, but come pretty darn close and do it in 308 sized rifles with recoil closer to hot 30-06 loads.
 
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