Reason why its hard to believe competition doesn't count in SD Situations

I didn't say they weren't welcome. They are very welcome. We have LEOs who shoot with us all the time and are at the top of the ranks.

One reason folks don't come back - esp. males, is that they may have thought they were intuitive and cracker jack shots and find out they are not. It takes a bit of ego strength to say I'm not so good and I want to learn.

One problem when the naive male brings the naive female is that the naive male doesn't look good and then tells the naive female that the game is ...

Also, when skilled folks (very nicely) try to tell the female something, the so called dominant male bristles at the territorial violation.

We are a very supportive group with no range tyrants or blusterers.
 
One reason folks don't come back - esp. males, is that they may have thought they were intuitive and cracker jack shots and find out they are not.
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I've seen that a million times. Not just in IDPA, but in all shooting venues, and not just with cops although they are well represented in that group.

Ego is a huge roadblock to learning to shoot, not only in competition but training. Many fail to get the training because their ego wont let them find out just how much they don't know or can't do.

We are a very supportive group with no range tyrants or blusterers
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I haven't shot with your group but I've shot all over the country, and I found that to be true just about everywhere, in every shooting venue.

Added to that, it seems like the best, most experienced shooters are the first one's to take a new shooter under their wings, helping them to get started, and making them feel welcome.

Every time I show up at a new place, I find three things ALWAYS happens:

1: I have fun
2: I learn something

And best of all

3: I meet new friends

I don't care if its IDPA, ICORE, High Power, Bullseye..............any type of shooting its always the same.

I'm not a cop any more, I'm not a soldier anymore, I'm just an old man who enjoys shooting and enjoys shooters.

I don't care if I win, I only care if I learned enough to beat MY last scores, and I want to meet and visit with others like mined people.

I'll relate a story that occurred a couple matches ago at one of the clubs I shoot with, that explains why I like shooters.

It was a falling plate match where we shot both CF and RF.

A friend of mine, and one of our clubs better shooters shows me an old 22 revolver someone gave him to fix. A real piece of junk.

I like revolvers and shoot them in most matches regardless how slow I am to reload compared to hi cap mag auto loaders.

I'm shooting my Model 18 Smith, so I challenge him to use that old revolver in the 22 match. We're shooting head to head, double elimination.

I should have held my own anyway but he was a better shooter, but where I beat him was in reloads, I reloaded mine, no problem, when he started to reload his revolver, hit the ejector the cylinder flew out and on the ground.

He laughs harder then I did. Now this allowed his wife to win the RF event and she didn't let him forget it.

To me, late in life, this is what shooting is about, fun and the comradeship.

It's much more fun laughing at my screw ups (and I still make my share) then gloating over my successes.

No one remembers your perfect score, but they always remember the time you shot all the hostage targets and let the bad guy targets go..............(yeap I've done that too.................it really helps to keep that story going with my fellow shooters knowing I was a LE Sniper).
 
Kraig,

The first time I shot at a new club, to me, IDPA. Their no shoot targets had a smiley face! I was used to two black hands.

First stage, I shot 4 no shoots! My squad were rolling around on the ground!
 
The first time I shot at a new club, to me, IDPA. Their no shoot targets had a smiley face! I was used to two black hands.

First stage, I shot 4 no shoots! My squad were rolling around on the ground!
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I'd have shot them, too. Anybody grinning in the middle of a gun fight ought to get shot.:p
 
I think no shoots are a crucial part of competition and a good reality test.

Many times folks say that if a critical incident occurs, they will just take them out. I note that many scenarios may or may not be realistic but ...

In our last match, we had two BGs with a no-shoot in the center. You have to move towards the targets and fire. They were very tight. The NO-shoot was righteously hosed - by long time and skilled shooters. I forget what I did :rolleyes:

It seemed that from the draw and on the first step, it was some combination of the stars and the poor innocent took it in COM and the head. :eek:

Oh, well!
 
In competition, plugging a "no-shoot" will hurt your score. In real life shooting a "no-shoot" is at least likely to significantly damage your bank balance -- plus you will need to live with the fact that you shot, and perhaps disabled or killed, an upstanding member of the community.
 
The psychology of the no-shoot is interesting. One moral heuristic seems to be that it is wrong to take an innocent life even to save other innocent lives.

This is instinctual perhaps so the risk ratio argument may not contradict it. So in arguments about campus carry - the risk that a good guy might kill an innocent to save many doesn't work for some.

Consider the scenario, where a shooter enters a locale. You shoot him before the massacre really rolls but also shoot some helpless person. Think that will look good for you?

In competition or FOF, shooting an innocent points out that it may not be easy to just take them out in a good shoot.

I remember my partner in an FOF exercise clearing a house, coming out from a room, saying - I just shot my son.
 
Glen, So many LEOs attend IDPA, and do not come back, made to feel not welcome.

That is such a pity, we as shooters with years of experience, can help (and not being seen as condescending) as you say, shooting twice a year is not really adequate.
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Brit, take a ride and join us out in the country at the VCGHC in DeLand on State Road 44.

I concur with Glenn, we go out of our way with new shooters to make sure they have a safe enjoyable time leaving with the feeling that they were/are welcome at our matches and that they have the want to come back and shoot again with us. Over the past 2 + years we are seeing more new faces at our matches and those new faces are turning into old familiar faces and bringing new faces with them.
 
I think no shoots are a crucial part of competition and a good reality test.

Many times folks say that if a critical incident occurs, they will just take them out. I note that many scenarios may or may not be realistic but ...

In our last match, we had two BGs with a no-shoot in the center. You have to move towards the targets and fire. They were very tight. The NO-shoot was righteously hosed - by long time and skilled shooters. I forget what I did

It seemed that from the draw and on the first step, it was some combination of the stars and the poor innocent took it in COM and the head.

Oh, well!
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Lat time I shot in competition the no kill target was wearing a white hat. A hit on him zeroed your score for the match and you were done for the day. Out of nearly 100 shooters he was plugged 4 or 5 times which was pretty good considering some of the shooters we had.
 
Consider the scenario, where a shooter enters a locale. You shoot him before the massacre really rolls but also shoot some helpless person. Think that will look good for you?
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It can look bad for you if anyone gets shot. If the bad guy is shooting back and hits a bystander, it can always be argued that you shouldn't have engaged him to begin with.

A defensive shooting with lots of innocents around comes with a lot of inherent risks. It's a bad situation to be involved in.

It seemed that from the draw and on the first step, it was some combination of the stars and the poor innocent took it in COM and the head.
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At least he didn't suffer. :D
 
Last match I did not hit a no shoot, but I did hit the metal filing cabinets the targets were using as cover, still hit the 5 ring. After we got done laughing I said " 357 magnum,turning cover into concealment for 80 years".
 
Went hog hunting west of Lake Okeechobee on Friday with a buddy and his grandson. I used my S&W 686 SSR and my handloads. It’s been raining a lot and the brush was amazingly thick. My first shot at the hog was deflected by a branch. The hog came out running full-tilt to my right, about 15 feet away. Two quick double-action shots put him down.

My point: When the hog came running out of the brush, my shooting was totally automatic. I was aware of where the other people and the dogs were. I was very conscious of my front sight on the hog. The gun seemed to fire itself. The pro hunter told me he’d never seen anyone shoot a DA revolver that fast and accurately.

I credit my shooting to all my years of shooting IDPA and Steel Challenge with a wheelgun.

Hanginghog.jpg
 
I have never been in a gun fight, been in lots of fights. At 77 YOA this month, I most probably not going to be in one, you never know, but the odds are against it.

I was once in a fist/feet, fight in a nice Indian Restaurant in St Helens Lancashire, UK. The year was 1968.

The physical equivalent to a No Shoot, was sitting with his Wife, in a nice brown suit, collar and tie, gleaming black shoes.

It was not that big of a Restaurant. I got dragged into this fight (first Wife had a mouth problem, opened it at the wrong time, sorry Irene!)

In the excitement, fighting 4 Yobs, is kind of exciting, the afore mentioned Gentleman (In Brown Suit) jumped to his feet, off to my right, just inside my peripheral vision, I spun, and kicked him in the chest!

Just a couple of minutes, fight was over, whilst these young chaps thought you had to talk/swear, to warm up to fight! Thats how they do it in the movies!

I had not been to that school, came out kicking and punching (I know, we Brits are uncouth) American Citizen now!

Mr. Brown Suit was sat on the floor, against the wall, opening and closing his mouth, like a fish.

Imagine his Wife, dressed nice as well, in a broad Lancashire accent said to me, "What did you hit my Husband for?"

Me, swamped in adrenalin, answered "I don't know" very intellegent answer, that No Shoot had no holes in him, but was badly winded.
 
Jim Cirillo is on record saying that IPSC matches

stressed him more than his many shootouts. I've had to put my ccw gun away when a car backfired and muscle memory drew it without any thought on my part! :-)
 
A few years ago, at a IALEFI Annual Training Conference, Jim Cirillo was running a live fire exercise. Poor light, picture no shoot targets, I was monitoring the live fire shoots (Board member) at lunch time, Jimmy said did I want to shoot it?

I said yes, turning a sharp corner, even after a quick peek! A man in coveralls (Picture target) with a large wrench shoulder high came into view, I shot it twice neck and head.

He laughed his head off! I was the only person to shoot that target.

Great guy.
 
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