Real ID = Real destruction of freedom...

There's a difference between unable to prosecute and unwilling to prosecute. We have many, many illegals in our jails/prisions who have been identified as illegals yet our govt refuses to initiate deportation proceedings or prosecute them on federal immigration charges. Why?
How will Real ID help if the govt refuses to do anything about identified illegals and prevents local govts from doing so?
Tomac
 
We have many, many illegals in our jails/prisions who have been identified as illegals yet our govt refuses to initiate deportation proceedings or prosecute them on federal immigration charges.
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I wouldn't know, but is there any documentation of that or any reason given for not proceeding with deportation? I can think of one possible excuse, and that would be that if deported, the individual could possibly return and have to be located and detained all over again. There might be less reluctance once better control measures were in place. That said, I don't need to make excuses for lack of enforcement. Let's just get the facts established.
 
First of all, it's no more limiting on freedom than everyone using your SSN as an ID number, no more registration than a drivers license.
Several states, including mine, Missouri, have enacted legislation in their state congresses and courts to refuse to comply with the RealID requirements. Granted, that's mostly a fiscal issue, but it still may make this much more scrutinized than it is right now.
As far as
So what is the next step: roadblocks all across the country and automatic deportation of anyone who cannot immediately produce a "RealID" ...? Is that *really* where you want us to go? ("papers please" then being no longer a bad joke)
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Yeah, I don't see deportation as a viable sentence for this. Maybe slightly more paranoid than is good for you. It would be no different than being pulled over and asked for a drivers license.
Rumors of them wanting to put tracking chips are simply that: rumors.
I also distrust and generally question anything the feds do but I don't view this as anything more than a national drivers license.
 
I've been following this discussion with great interest the last couple of days.
Many good points have been raised on both sides, and only a couple cheap shots.

The advantages and disadvantages of Real ID are obvious, as are the advantages and disadvantages of any other information gathering device.

It comes down to that statement attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Benjamin Franklin:

"Those who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security."

Whoever said it, it's a valid observation.

I say no to Real ID.
The potential for abuse and it's inherent invasive nature outweighs any advantage.
 
I say no to Real ID.
The potential for abuse and it's inherent invasive nature outweighs any advantage.
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What would that mean to addressing illegal immigration? What would be the better idea? I don't think one can disapprove of REAL ID in a vacuum.
 
I don't think one can disapprove of REAL ID in a vacuum.
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But it seems one can approve of it in an unrelated issue.
Granted, the Real ID may help the illegal immigration problem.
And I have no doubt that the architects of the latest immigration bill have the Real ID in mind.

But the Real ID isn't about illegal aliens.
The Real ID is about making control of Citizens easier than it is now.
Whichever side of the .gov control issue you are on you can't deny that the purpose of Real ID is to streamline and digitize the pertinent information of you, me and everybody else.

Illegal immigration is a side issue that will land in the .gov favor if Real ID comes to pass.

Much more important is the next step of control that Real ID will grant.

Think of it how you will, but I guarantee that my disapproval isn't in a vacuum.
 
If you think the congress critters care about illiegal immigration, you're nuts.

They care about one thing and one thing only: having control over you. Nothing else satisfies them. Real ID fits in nicely with this.

closes a loophole
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Like closing the "gun show loophole"?

There are ways to solve the illiegal immigration problem. But no one seems interested in actual solutions.
 
Think of it how you will, but I guarantee that my disapproval isn't in a vacuum.
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But your concerns are purely hypothetical, assuming the worst. How would you be able to distinguish something well intended?
 
There are ways to solve the illiegal immigration problem. But no one seems interested in actual solutions.
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The offering of better ideas have been requested here a couple of times. Is that a "lack of interest"? I think it is quite frustrating to come up with something that meets a test of "humane" treatment. Heavier handed approaches are not likely going to satisfy that premise.

One I mentioned earlier that seems critical to me is the ending of the anchor baby dilemma. Without ending that, you always run into the for-the-children argument, no politician wanting to touch it in any decisive way. The current bill kind of sneaks up on it, and in a dim light, it might just remain in the bill. That would be the provision that temp workers cannot bring family with them. Get it?
 
I just renewed my license. While they insisted the strip on it is inactive I still whacked it with an electromagnet. Renewed my CCL with Indiana's new lifetime permit. By the time my DL needs renewed again Real ID will be in force...and I'll do without a DL.

Fact is, this has nothing to do with immigration nor terrorism. If those were actual concerns then we'd have more effective border security and strict prosecution of those who employ illegals of any stripe. Among other things. But we don't and that alone is evidence of what Real ID actually is: Data gathering and control over US Citizens under the guise of "security". When you see this and then take a look at the whole Animal ID issue it's pretty clear where we're headed.
 
If a strawman doesn't work, try a red herring, maybe a touch of ad hominem for good measure.
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Just exactly how the hell did I attack you personally?????? :mad:

Never mind ... I won't be back to this crap.
 
Color my face RED!

Deleted my post as it was meant for another thread and is mostly off topic in this one.

Kudos to Real Gun for pointing this out and ending my confused state of mind....
 
But your concerns are purely hypothetical, assuming the worst.
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My concerns are for the potential, and the tendency of government to never turn down the opportunity for control.

How would you be able to distinguish something well intended?
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It would be accompanied by blowing horns and singing angels.
 
Yeah, but if it just stops one illegal alien from getting a job ...
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It might in the short run in the long run its going to be useless because its made by computers and people. It can also be duplicated by computers and people.

The law requires DMVs to store scanned copies of birth certificates, Social Security cards, and any other documents that individuals present when they apply for a license. It creates a national linked database allowing millions of employees at all levels of government around the nation to access personal data. And it mandates a nationally standardized “machine-readable zone” that will let bars, merchants and other private parties scan personal data off licenses with greater ease than ever before, putting all that information into even greater circulation.
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The regulations
seem to address this issue by allowing states to create an exemption
process for individuals who do not have a birth certificate (p. 10,830
and 10,852). (Ironically, this exemption would seem to undercut the
entire security rationale for Real ID: that identity can only be proved
by presenting other “breeder documents” like birth certificates).
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DHS attempts to address this problem by
allowing for the acceptance of some foreign documents other than
passports. But there are some categories of immigrants who, while
legal, will still not possess any of the documents listed by DHS (for
example, asylum seekers).
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Issuing of licenses through the Internet and
mail will not be possible for at least the first 5 years under Real ID
because every individual will be required to register in person to get a
Real ID. Remote renewals of a Real ID (after initial issuance) will only
be possible for every other renewal, and only if none of the licensing
information (such as address) has changed (p. 146). Also, it is unclear
whether the regulations will allow the mailing of licenses or whether
license holders will have to return to the DMV to receive a license
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The regulations do not protect individuals from
private sector piggybacking. They state that protecting machine
readable technology from private sector access is outside the scope of
DHS responsibility and leave such regulation to individual states
(p. 10,837). They decline to require that data on the card be
encrypted, leaving it open to reading by a private-sector entity.
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The
regulations fail on this issue because they require creation of a
national database of interlinked state systems (p. 10,855). DHS denies
there will be a national database, but having one central database in
Washington or 50 state databases in the individual states, all linked
together with identical comments and an identical form, are effectively
the same thing. Moreover the regulations explicitly provide that the
Department is “committed to the expedited development and
deployment of a common [federated] querying service” (p. 10,825).
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http://www.privacyrights.org/ar/real_id_act.htm

There are already exceptions for not having the required documents...which just make an end run around the claimed security of the real ID.

You will need a Real ID card for financial transactions also...making them a high value commodity for criminals and others seeking to launder money. If somebody dies do they scan that into the real ID database with the other documents?
 
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Since I'm hanging out here while THR is offline, I thought I'd mention Oklahoma has passed legislation this last month officially opting out of REAL ID altogether. Antipitas had it right on in an earlier post...REAL ID is an affront to federalism and it could be easily argued a violation of the 10A.

I don't get to say this often, but I'm proud of our state legislature. We need more states to do a gut-check and rediscover dual sovereignty.
 
Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Oregon, I think there are 3 other states that have passed or have proposed measures waiting on passage to keep from complying with it.
 
Idaho passed legislation that not only opts out, but "asks" our federal reps to push for repeal... (Yeah, like they will really do that!) I beleive Montana also passed legislation.

Eghad: See? I knew you would "get it."
 
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