Real ID Cards, a threat to our a way of life!

Ok, i'll try to enter the 666 part into the equation for ya. 666 is the "Mark of the Beast" It's believed by those of us that believe in the prophacies of Revelation in the Bible. Basically all will be forced to accept the mark of the beast. To many intrepreters (i can't spell, please forgive) this in its modern form would be a universal identifyer (possiably this card) to "The Ruler" "The Gov't" "The Anti-Christ" letting it be known your not one of the people allowed to participate in the food buying, services or whatever. 666 is the mark of the Anti-Christ or some would say The Beast. So this tied along with many many other world events that are coming to pass are fulfilling the prophacies of the Book of Revelation.

I know to those that don't know the prophicies, our dislike of this ID seems foolish or paranoid, but it's true to us and from what we read and see around us daily it only increases our confidence in our belief.

Sorry if i offend anyone, but I'm only trying to explain why Bigbore, myself, and a few others are really creeped out about this. It's not cause we have anything to hide either. Thank you.
 
Payne,

I appreciate your calm presentation of your beliefs. Thank you for helping me to understand.


But I have a question for you and BigBore: Where's the number 666 on the new ID's, or on any state ID, for that matter?
 
Anybody here use a library card? The FBI has full access to your library internet usage, research, full knowledge of what authors, genre, how many videos you check out, how many times you use the library, your overdue books/fines, what you print out on library PCs, websites visited, your address, home phone and your spouse and children/dependants history. All public, private, univerity or other lending libraries provide this information as part of HS. ATM cards, debit cards, credit cards and you are almost certain to be on video at retail stores and government facilities. Have you ever been caught by photoradar while speeding? The NID is a good idea. The application will be problematic. What about dual state residents? It might be interesting to see what happens with those who hold multiple state CCWs. I think it would be nice to allow a LEO to swipe your NID and find out you are a good citizen. I think it would be greater to allow LEOs at a DUI check to swipe a registered sex offenders NID and know that. Colours will be different so a citizen and non-citizen can be IDd. If a LEO swipes a NID and finds a illegal who has overstayed their visa, good. I am in favour of the NID.
 
Payne,
I, too, respect your feelings on the issue, and it is no small issue for one who believes Biblical prophecy. Consider though, that the same thing was said about Social Security cards. The same thing was said about tattoos on concentration camp victims.

On the flip side, something as easily counterfieted as an ID card will simply be duplicated by any terrorist. A year after the card's introduction, there will be fakes. No matter what hologram or magnetic strip you attach, if a LEO is not able to read the strip immediately, a counterfiet card will suffice. Dependence on an ID card to establish legitimacy rather than counting on a LEO's common sense and intuition is simply a dumbing down of our police force.

That being said, I think I'll take several of 'em! :p
 
A few years back the state I was living in at the time wanted to add some other use to the drivers license. I dont remember exactly what that change was.

I do remember that the method they wanted to pay for the use was to up the cost of the drivers license by $14 per renewal. I wrote my state rep and said that I personally was not opposed to the added use of the DL, but that I was opposed to paying more for my DL.

He actually called me back to discuss. He asked for suggestions on paying for the use. I recomended dropping some other program to free up the money. I then suggested that if they dont have the money to pay for this maybe it should not be done. I said that while I dont oppose the use I do not support it either, and dont want to pay for it out of my pocket. He actually voted against.

My point is this - Where is the money to pay for this federal oversight of the drivers license system going to come from? It is another layer of government that will have to be paid for.
 
Big Brother is watching YOU!

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

Welcome to 1984...

The National ID Card is NOT about Identification or fighting terrorism. The National ID Card is about creating a DATABASE on EVERYONE and TRACKING them EVERYWHERE. What info will it include? Well, not even that line has been drawn yet, which means it could be anything.

Medical Info, Income, Travel Patterns, Criminal History, Spending Patterns, Bank Account Balances, Guns Owned, at this point, everything is fair game. This is a corporation's wet dream.

I don't know about you, but I don't trust the government to handle this database without screwing it up.

Check this link out for a laugh.

http://georgetoft.com/presentations/information_privacy/pizza_order.swf
 
Hum.

We've got a whole thing going on here in the Uk with ID cards. These little so-and-sos are to have one's vital statistics from DNA to shoe-size on their ickle chips, and there's going to be a really big database.

They're to fight the terrorists, you know.

Okiedoke. So, let's take a close-to-home case of a girl being murdered in my town this weekend. A horrible crime, which makes me wish the Uck had the death penalty. But if the LEOs said "Cool, we've got spoor on the body, we'll run the DNA. Oooh, lookie - we've got a match! That's our boy." they'd be wrong - because current DNA testing technology is only about 99 percent accurate. The Uck has 60-odd million people, at a conservative estimate. That's an estimated 300,000 false positives to troll through, assuming a male attacker - yeah, fine, you can narrow things down, but a DNA record is not the magic bullet that CSI and other shows would have us beleive.

So... DNA. Yes, every person's DNA is absolutely unique. No, we currently don't have a rapid method for working up a person's complete genome, and the quicker the test, the less accurate it is. Natural human complacency, however, will have people treating it as The Definitive Truth, not an investigative tool as it actually is.

Moving on to the RFID side of things. How lovely! You swan through life, with your ickle smartcard magically opening doors for you, your PC wakes up and logs you in just by you sitting down in front of it, and your bank greets you with a cheery, welcoming "beep!" as you walk up to the ATM.

Uhm. Heh. Guess what? It's a breeze to trigger those RFID tags. You can buy a scanner for them from any decent 'tronics supplier. So hoovering up IDs would be a bulk concern. You know the spam in your inbox? A lot of that is trolling for identity theft, the #1 Crime of the Information Age.

Let's take a look at the Big Gubment Database now. Doubtless written by the lowest bidder. "Sorry, we can't give you medical treatment yet, the database is down." That's possibly an extreme outlook, but my Gh0d in heaven, they put these things out to tender, and the person giving the biggest back-hander gets the gig. Not always, but often. *shudder*

So in this case, it's not the existence of the database that bugs me, it's the competence of the monkeys running it. It's the bored data-entry clerk who miskeys an entry.

You know why you need a virus-scanner? It's because there are lots and lots of idiots who think it's a big jape to screw with computers and break them. And that database is going to be The Prize, the Ultimate Target for these informational sociopaths. It'll be the biggest target for ID Theives, for the sick jerks who write viruses, for scammers, for everyone with an Empathy Bypass and a bit of computing knowledge.

And, to reiterate, I'm expected to trust the Gubment to secure it properly? HA! Let me just point you to that work of fiction known as "The Train Timetable" to illustrate my point.

*pant, pant, pant*

Anyhoooo that's my take on ID cards. Part of it.
 
if it keeps the illegals from getting d.l's and other benifits, then whats the problem? bush already said he would sign this bill. ya'll voted for him right? i thought he was the cure for all of the countrys ill's right?
 
shooting-student - The actual meaning of how the literal number 666 is a debate...Some feel it is an actual literal number - some say the number 666 is a symbolic representation of a specific person or perhaps system. That is why the New Testament states that lucky is the person who has the wisdom to be able to identify what the 666 means.

I persoanlly believe the 666 is either a person or system imposed that will directly interfere with your ability to gain bodily subsistence so that you are forced into making a choice to in essence live or die.

As Christ said woe to the man who loves his earthly live rather than his spritual live. I can defintely see how that fits into all this because if you love your earthly life so much that you don't want to die (unnaturally) the mark of the beast will be very tempting for those people to accept.

If you hate the earthly existence and love and TRUST (Faith) God then you will have no problem defying the laws of men and rejecting the mark (ID?). Of course you will be imprisoned and eventually put to death by those accepting or pushing the mark of the Beast.

Someone else mentioned that teh same was said for Social Security cards and some other things. As I stated before circumstantuial conditioning where over a large period of time the WILL of the people is changed by the sum of teh small innocent parts. Small innocent almost imperceivable changes over periods of time that keep coercing the masses into doing this or that and all tied to our daily ability to be gainfully employed or obtain food, shelter, clothes etc etc etc.
 
Unfortunatly, it passed.

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/05/11/0119205.shtml?tid=158&tid=103&tid=172&tid=219

So, if this goes through unchallenged legally, we'll be in a survailence nation within 3 years. The next step will be obvious if you think on it; guns will be tied to their owners using this system. Pretty much the same backdoor registration as the "ballistic fingerprint". I'm apalled that people are so oblivious to that... RealID creates a new, even more powerful beaurcracy then ever. RealID basically says that we, as citizens of the United States do not know whats best for ourselves.

The question comes down to:

Do you trust the government enough with your saftey?

If you answer yes, what the hell are you doing carrying a gun, or even owning one.
 
BigBore

I don't know about you but I never authorized nor voted in any national referendum that I am aware of to allow any information to be collected about me. This whole ID mess is an invasion of my right to privacy.
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You don't have a "right to privacy," and last time I checked laws (in the United States of America) have never been passed by national referendum.

Unlike the European Union, there are few federal laws defining what personal information can and cannot be collected without your consent, and almost no coordination between the states regarding their various laws. US case law is also murky on the issue of privacy, with the Supreme Court wandering this way and that whenever it comes up.

The saving grace we currently have is the reserved powers clause...at least until more laws are passed that take those rights out of our hands. What we do have going in our favor is a strong decentralization trend, unlike socialist Europe. My condolences go out to the coasts, where people undoubtedly will be carrying around SmartIDs (TM) within a few years...but that has nothing to do with the Feds.
 
A post on THR noted that "they specifically shot down a proposed provision that would have prevented the RealID database from being used as a national database of gun owners."

I'm trying to find background on that (and more specifically, who voted for/against that provision), can anyone help me out?
 
So, if this goes through unchallenged legally, we'll be in a survailence nation within 3 years. The next step will be obvious if you think on it; guns will be tied to their owners using this system. Pretty much the same backdoor registration as the "ballistic fingerprint". I'm apalled that people are so oblivious to that... RealID creates a new, even more powerful beaurcracy then ever. RealID basically says that we, as citizens of the United States do not know whats best for ourselves.
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1. Gun registration is not an obvious outgrowth of national standards for state issued id cards. Please show, using reason and evidence (and not just wild specualtion) how your point has any kind of merit.

2. RealID does not create any additional "beaurcracy." It does not require you to be issued a card. It only requires that if you need to do business with the Federal government, and that business requires proving your identity, that the state issued ID you use meet certain standards. You can still do it the old fashioned way by provding birth certificates and phone bills and such. Read it for yourself, it's in Title II about halfway down this page: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r109:./temp/~r109E1tyRw
 
As I posted on THR:



http://thomas.loc.gov/r109/r109d09my5.html
Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act Conference Report: A unanimous-consent agreement was reached providing for the consideration of the conference report to accompany H.R. 1268, making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2005, at approximately 10:45 a.m., on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.

Page S4794
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The five versions of the bill can be found at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.+1268:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdque...-257](Amendments_For_H.R.1268)&./temp/~bd968z
120. S.AMDT.429 to H.R.1268 To establish and rapidly implement regulations for State driver's license and identification document security standards, to prevent terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States, to unify terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and removal, and to ensure expeditious construction of the San Diego border fence.
Sponsor: Sen Isakson, Johnny [GA] (introduced 4/14/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 4/20/2005 Proposed amendment SA 429 withdrawn in Senate.
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I don't see anything later than that update, regarding this issue.


Now, I've never looked at Thomas before, so I could be very confused. Does this mean that the ammendment has been killed?

Also, I'm trying to find out how the debate/vote actually went. Can anyone anyone help an interested citizen figure it out?







I've yet to recieve a response, there. I'm planning to call Kennedy's and/or Kerry's offices (since they're my elected representatives) to see if I'm reading it correctly, but I would still appreciate feedback...
 
Now, I've never looked at Thomas before, so I could be very confused. Does this mean that the ammendment has been killed?
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That specific ammendment was killed, but quite a bit happened after. Take a look at the "All Congressional Actions with Amendments" link for a down-to-the-minute chronology of the legislation during its time in the House, the Senate and committees (complete with brief summaries of all proposed ammendments).
 
IZHUMINTER,


Ugh, that's a lot to read. I expect I'll have to spend a couple hours just to digest it.

Thanks.
 
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