Hey guys the focus is getting narrow. We are being reduced to arguing over religious rights. We all know that most major religions have all had their extremist factions that take everything out of context. More importantly right now we need to be focused. We are Amercians! We are the greatest country in the world. We lead the way in everything. The US sets the standards and this causes a great deal of resentment from other less fortunate countries. Lets remember we are lucky to have freedom and hopefully we have learned that its not a God given right but a priviledge worth protecting and definitely worth fighting for.
READ BEFORE POSTING! World Trade Center Terror Attack?
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
- Start date
CastleBravo
New member
I would propose that we have been approaching the terrorism problem from the wrong point of view. We have been reactive; we try to find out when the bad people are doing something and try to prevent it.
Instead, we need to make it a national priority to ACTIVELY hunt down and kill off foreign terrorist groups wherever they are. Not as revenge (although that is cool in my book) and not as a deterrent (because it won't work), but rather as a straightforward removal of whoever threatens us. If we know that Group X hates our guts, we should simply seek them out and kill them off. With the cooperation of others if we can get it, by ourselves if not.
The only way to minimize the danger of terrorism is to physically destroy the people in the organized groups as they develop. I *DON'T* propose any curtailment of civil rights in the U.S. whatsoever. But foreign nationals in foreign countries have no rights under U.S. law and are subject to death whenever they pose a threat to the United States. Even if you don't catch them they are forced to spend people, time and resources just surviving.
Assassination on a wide scale isn't enough. Kill Bin Laden and his second cousin twice removed (or whatever) will just take his place. Instead, we need to kill Bin Laden, kill all of his people, destroy his physical resources and render him impotent. Also, we need to "persuade" nations that support terrorists to cease or face the consequences. We have allowed organized, well-financed groups of terrorists to survive and thrive. As a result, they have attacked us in progressively more sophisticated ways over the last decade.
This isn't a hysterical reaction, but a recognition of simple truth: that this single coordinated attack may kill more Americans than several of the WARS we have waged... and we need to start treating terrorist groups as nations that have declared war on us, rather than mere criminal elements.
Instead, we need to make it a national priority to ACTIVELY hunt down and kill off foreign terrorist groups wherever they are. Not as revenge (although that is cool in my book) and not as a deterrent (because it won't work), but rather as a straightforward removal of whoever threatens us. If we know that Group X hates our guts, we should simply seek them out and kill them off. With the cooperation of others if we can get it, by ourselves if not.
The only way to minimize the danger of terrorism is to physically destroy the people in the organized groups as they develop. I *DON'T* propose any curtailment of civil rights in the U.S. whatsoever. But foreign nationals in foreign countries have no rights under U.S. law and are subject to death whenever they pose a threat to the United States. Even if you don't catch them they are forced to spend people, time and resources just surviving.
Assassination on a wide scale isn't enough. Kill Bin Laden and his second cousin twice removed (or whatever) will just take his place. Instead, we need to kill Bin Laden, kill all of his people, destroy his physical resources and render him impotent. Also, we need to "persuade" nations that support terrorists to cease or face the consequences. We have allowed organized, well-financed groups of terrorists to survive and thrive. As a result, they have attacked us in progressively more sophisticated ways over the last decade.
This isn't a hysterical reaction, but a recognition of simple truth: that this single coordinated attack may kill more Americans than several of the WARS we have waged... and we need to start treating terrorist groups as nations that have declared war on us, rather than mere criminal elements.
Wrong, johnak, it is about their religion/philisophy. Plenty of groups have gripes about their claims to ownership/sovereignty, but they don't go around killing on a mass scale like this. China claims Taiwan, but even they don't kill thousands of civilians to take it back. Even the IRA, arguably one of the most ruthless terrorist gropus in modern history did not have the audacity to murder thousands, perhaps tens of thousands in suicide missions. The problem is that their religious beliefs make them think it is not only justified to murder on a mass scale, but to do so will bring them glory forever. This is all these scum need as an excuse. Religious zealotry for a false god is ultimately behind this.
As far as equating the Palestinian issue with California, you have got to be kidding me?!! We didn't steal California, and they didn't lose that land in a war. It was ceded to the US. The Palestinians lost that territory after aggresively ATTACKING Israel and losing. And, if you haven't figured it out by now, the Palestinians goal is not to get some land, it is to DESTROY Israel, and they will continue this garbage until they have met their goal.
As far as equating the Palestinian issue with California, you have got to be kidding me?!! We didn't steal California, and they didn't lose that land in a war. It was ceded to the US. The Palestinians lost that territory after aggresively ATTACKING Israel and losing. And, if you haven't figured it out by now, the Palestinians goal is not to get some land, it is to DESTROY Israel, and they will continue this garbage until they have met their goal.
Jody Hudson
New member
Let's keep Bush flying or at least say he is, and keep all the decoy Air Force Ones up in the air flying all around as per long time criteria. This has been the plan for at least 20 years that I know of.
However, I would think that he is REALLY down in Mount Weather or someplace I've not heard of. Mt. Weather, down 1200 feet or so beneath granite has all the FEMA highest capability comm systems and a very capable staff.
Whatever it is that he is doing is well beyond OUR Quarterbacking abilities and is likely a result of decades or more of planning for just such a thing as we have today -- the first day (most likely) of WW3... Hopefully this is just a relatively smaller event but I hardly think so.
I am reminded of the photos I saw of the incredibly strong steel and concrete structure of the World Trade Center and wonder WHAT it took to take those buildings down to rubble in an hour! Whatever resources came together to bring down both towers is are a substantial power. I refuse to believe that it was the planes that took down the towers no matter what I'm told to believe.
However, I would think that he is REALLY down in Mount Weather or someplace I've not heard of. Mt. Weather, down 1200 feet or so beneath granite has all the FEMA highest capability comm systems and a very capable staff.
Whatever it is that he is doing is well beyond OUR Quarterbacking abilities and is likely a result of decades or more of planning for just such a thing as we have today -- the first day (most likely) of WW3... Hopefully this is just a relatively smaller event but I hardly think so.
I am reminded of the photos I saw of the incredibly strong steel and concrete structure of the World Trade Center and wonder WHAT it took to take those buildings down to rubble in an hour! Whatever resources came together to bring down both towers is are a substantial power. I refuse to believe that it was the planes that took down the towers no matter what I'm told to believe.
I agree with keeping bush out of dc for now. One less target for terrorists to aim for. Keep him safe, assess the situation, and go back when prudent.
There's no victory in being like the general on his horse who said "Don't worry, nobody could possibly hit me from this dist...."
There's no victory in being like the general on his horse who said "Don't worry, nobody could possibly hit me from this dist...."
Keith Rogan
New member
CPR,
I'd risk it because right now we look weak. 10,000 or so Americans are dead and the president is hiding in Nebraska... He should have the courage to go to DC and make a statement of strength. Tuck Cheney and Powell away somewhere safe so you have a chain of command intact and take the risk.
He's acting "Clintonish" right now. I expected more from him.
I'd risk it because right now we look weak. 10,000 or so Americans are dead and the president is hiding in Nebraska... He should have the courage to go to DC and make a statement of strength. Tuck Cheney and Powell away somewhere safe so you have a chain of command intact and take the risk.
He's acting "Clintonish" right now. I expected more from him.
Jody Hudson
New member
Keith,
I strongly differ with your position. There is NO reason to have him in DC or any other place where he can be located. We have the Symbolism of the WTC falling down and the Pentagon being hit and evacuated. Do you think we need the symbolism of our leader being at ground zero in some John Wayne BS defiance.
Luckily wiser heads are ruling this day...
I strongly differ with your position. There is NO reason to have him in DC or any other place where he can be located. We have the Symbolism of the WTC falling down and the Pentagon being hit and evacuated. Do you think we need the symbolism of our leader being at ground zero in some John Wayne BS defiance.
Luckily wiser heads are ruling this day...
Honestly
I was only mildly shocked when I turned on the television this morning at the prompting of posters here.
To me, America has been ripe for such an attack for quite some time. For me, it is a direct result of our lazy, apathetic, self-indulgent, proud, holier than thou, "I've got mine, screw you" attitude.
It remindes me of some other civilizations that have come and gone before we came on the scene.
But, at the same time, this is not the time to "lock and load", "run for the hills", blah, blah, blah... My bills haven't stopped coming. (Damn!
) The damage is not nationwide, the attacks are local to NY and WDC, and the enemy is invisible right now.
Only time will tell if this is going to become an active, pursuable war.
And frankly, I'm quite in awe and admiration at the creativity of the attack.
To imperfectly quote, "Those who would ignore the lessons of history are bound to repeat them."
My heart goes out to the victims of this tragedy. All of them.
I was only mildly shocked when I turned on the television this morning at the prompting of posters here.
To me, America has been ripe for such an attack for quite some time. For me, it is a direct result of our lazy, apathetic, self-indulgent, proud, holier than thou, "I've got mine, screw you" attitude.
It remindes me of some other civilizations that have come and gone before we came on the scene.
But, at the same time, this is not the time to "lock and load", "run for the hills", blah, blah, blah... My bills haven't stopped coming. (Damn!
) The damage is not nationwide, the attacks are local to NY and WDC, and the enemy is invisible right now.Only time will tell if this is going to become an active, pursuable war.
And frankly, I'm quite in awe and admiration at the creativity of the attack.
To imperfectly quote, "Those who would ignore the lessons of history are bound to repeat them."
My heart goes out to the victims of this tragedy. All of them.
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Might I suggest that those of you who are not experts in structural engineering stop speculating about what it take to topple a skyscraper. It is not too different from a layman telling a surgeon what will and will not work to treat a tumor.
Simply put, you don't know if they suicide planes alone did it or not and thinking you know only makes you look foolish. I hold a Masters degree in Civil Engineering, and I don't know, so what makes you think have superior knowledge? Leave it to the experts.
Simply put, you don't know if they suicide planes alone did it or not and thinking you know only makes you look foolish. I hold a Masters degree in Civil Engineering, and I don't know, so what makes you think have superior knowledge? Leave it to the experts.
No Cutter Bombs
Blarneystone, I watched both towers go down. They definately collapsed from top to bottom. Would have been bottom to top if cutter charges were used. The steel framework melts at the fire and everything above falls in the middle. The weight of all this debris collapses successive floors and the increasing volume actually causes a downward rolling explosion. You can see what I mean on the replays.
sid k
Blarneystone, I watched both towers go down. They definately collapsed from top to bottom. Would have been bottom to top if cutter charges were used. The steel framework melts at the fire and everything above falls in the middle. The weight of all this debris collapses successive floors and the increasing volume actually causes a downward rolling explosion. You can see what I mean on the replays.
sid k
Tuesday September 11th, the significance of this date? Speculation reported on AP (has bin Laden's finger prints all over it):
"...... a U.S. judge had set this Wednesday [9/12/01] as the sentencing date for a bin Laden associate for his role in the 1998 bombing of a U.S. embassy in Tanzania that killed 213 people. The sentencing had been set for the federal courthouse near the World Trade Center. No one from the U.S. attorney's office could be reached Tuesday to comment on whether the sentencing was still on." By Jerry Schwartz, AP National Writer, Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001; 4:17 p.m. EDT
-- Kernel
"...... a U.S. judge had set this Wednesday [9/12/01] as the sentencing date for a bin Laden associate for his role in the 1998 bombing of a U.S. embassy in Tanzania that killed 213 people. The sentencing had been set for the federal courthouse near the World Trade Center. No one from the U.S. attorney's office could be reached Tuesday to comment on whether the sentencing was still on." By Jerry Schwartz, AP National Writer, Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001; 4:17 p.m. EDT
-- Kernel
Keith Rogan
New member
Well, FOX news is reporting that Bush has just left Offut AFB and is heading back to DC!
I think this is absolutely the best thing he could do right now and I'm proud of him for doing it! We need to go back to "business as usual" and show these animals that they can't beat us down. What Bush is doing is a magnificient gesture.
I think this is absolutely the best thing he could do right now and I'm proud of him for doing it! We need to go back to "business as usual" and show these animals that they can't beat us down. What Bush is doing is a magnificient gesture.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Bush handled it right.
The second string was secured at the WH Bunkers. It was up to him to move to the nearest different location....SAC has the facilities and communications. His NSC brief is over, the cordon is in place and he's back in the air enroute to DC.
Good moves. How would we have looked if the skies were cleared, the Pres left for DC from FL and got taken out on landing by a simple Stinger?
Rich
(Keith-
We posted simultaneously. Obviously, we're in agreement.)
The second string was secured at the WH Bunkers. It was up to him to move to the nearest different location....SAC has the facilities and communications. His NSC brief is over, the cordon is in place and he's back in the air enroute to DC.
Good moves. How would we have looked if the skies were cleared, the Pres left for DC from FL and got taken out on landing by a simple Stinger?
Rich
(Keith-
We posted simultaneously. Obviously, we're in agreement.)
maxinquaye
New member
Taken to Email as it should have been the first time...
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September 11
Perhaps it is the Bin-Laden sentencing thing tomorrow, but consider that this is the one year anniversary of last year's World Economic Summit in Australia, which the anti-WTO folks protested.
Here's a link to a leftist-green group that seems to place some significance on the date.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/globalaction/s11/issue_freetrade.shtml
No, I have not idea about these people and I'm making no accusations ... just making sure we look at all the possibilities.
After all, detroying the World Trade Center makes a lot of sense from an anti-capitalist perspective.
Perhaps it is the Bin-Laden sentencing thing tomorrow, but consider that this is the one year anniversary of last year's World Economic Summit in Australia, which the anti-WTO folks protested.
Here's a link to a leftist-green group that seems to place some significance on the date.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/globalaction/s11/issue_freetrade.shtml
No, I have not idea about these people and I'm making no accusations ... just making sure we look at all the possibilities.
After all, detroying the World Trade Center makes a lot of sense from an anti-capitalist perspective.